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Judda

Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)

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15 hours ago, BanburyRed said:

So, Bolton game is on @ Wycombe, but Bury vs MK Dons is suspended....

I see on SSN that having suspended the opening fixture, Bury's next game will only go ahead if proof of finances is provided to the EFL by a set date. This gave me the impression that the League were trying hard to avoid "expulsion for failure to fulfil fixtures" if possible. I then read in the Manchester local paper;

"In addition, the EFL Board, if not in possession of the necessary evidence by 12pm on Friday 2 August 2019, will make a determination as to whether to suspend Bury’s away fixture at Accrington Stanley on Saturday August 10, 2019.

"The club will be referred to a disciplinary commission and now face further punishment over the suspension of the match, the M.E.N understands".

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1 hour ago, 22A said:

I see on SSN that having suspended the opening fixture, Bury's next game will only go ahead if proof of finances is provided to the EFL by a set date. This gave me the impression that the League were trying hard to avoid "expulsion for failure to fulfil fixtures" if possible. I then read in the Manchester local paper;

"In addition, the EFL Board, if not in possession of the necessary evidence by 12pm on Friday 2 August 2019, will make a determination as to whether to suspend Bury’s away fixture at Accrington Stanley on Saturday August 10, 2019.

"The club will be referred to a disciplinary commission and now face further punishment over the suspension of the match, the M.E.N understands".

Bolton’s game is only going ahead because the pfa have loaned them money in order to meet the efl deadline

are bury not big enough for the pfa to help them out?

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25 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Bolton’s game is only going ahead because the pfa have loaned them money in order to meet the efl deadline

are bury not big enough for the pfa to help them out?

Does seem a massive inconsistency between the two clubs

As an outsider looking in, Bolton seemed to have been in a bigger mess for much longer.

Does seem odd that one can be supported and not the other

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7 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Bolton’s game is only going ahead because the pfa have loaned them money in order to meet the efl deadline

are bury not big enough for the pfa to help them out?

I believe it's more a case that they understand Bolton have a viable alternative further down the line.

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Work with a bolton fan and feel so sorry for him. Everyone is excited for the start of the footy season except him, everytime footy is mentioned he bows his head. Terrible state the fans find themselves in and I just can't see things getting better.

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Oh, the irony of it. Bolton v Bury is one of Sky's scheduled games for September.

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It’s a shame that the Class of 92 didn’t take over Bury rather than getting yet another Greater Manchester team into the league. In other countries like Belgium the solution is mergers but I guess that would never happen here.

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A winding-up petition issued against Bury over an unpaid tax bill has been dismissed by the High Court.

Creditors approved a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) on 18 July, which was proposed to help settle some of the League One club's debts.

Previously, the case had been adjourned three times before Wednesday's hearing.

Prior to their court appearance, Saturday's game at MK Dons was called offas the EFL said Bury failed to show evidence of their financial viability.

The court case was originally brought by former head coach Chris Brass and later taken over by HM Revenue & Customs.

An EFL statement on Monday said the league was not satisfied it had received the necessary information that demonstrated how the club will be funded in future.

It is understood that the Shakers, who were deducted 12 points as a result of the CVA being approved, will be referred to an independent disciplinary panel.

Bury chairman Steve Dale then issued a statement on Tuesday saying the EFL was "working against" the club following the decision to suspend their first game of the season.

What is a CVA?

An insolvent company can use a company voluntary arrangement to pay its creditors over a fixed period and, if they agree, the company can continue to trade.

The company needs to apply for its CVA through an insolvency practitioner who, within a month of their appointment, will work out an arrangement to cover how much of the debt it can pay, as well as a payment schedule.

The creditors will then be invited to vote on the arrangement, however, the proposal must be approved by creditors who are owed at least 75% of the debt.

If 75% of creditors cannot agree on the arrangement, the company could face voluntary liquidation.

However, Bury's CVA - which will see football creditors paid in full and unsecured creditors paid 25% of the money they are owed - was eventually approved.

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On 18/07/2019 at 02:34, CyderInACan said:

Whitchurch. Either Rush-Back (anyone could be the goalie) or Drop-Back (the goalie could play wherever they wanted but was the goalie nonetheless) 

Well. That's how I remember it anyway! Don't forget good old next goal wins too mind! 

Somewhat late to this debate, but on the hallowed turf of the Manor Road playing fields, I recall using the same Rush-Back and Drop-Back terms.

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15 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Work with a bolton fan and feel so sorry for him. Everyone is excited for the start of the footy season except him, everytime footy is mentioned he bows his head. Terrible state the fans find themselves in and I just can't see things getting better.

The professional game needs to take a long hard look at itself. The greed of the ‘top six’ the desire to get to the promised land of the premier league for two bags of silver for a season. The overspending of clubs is impacting further and further down the league.

Why couldn’t Man Utd or City day to Bolton & Burt will play you pre season , keep the gate receipts instead of corporate tours to the Far East and states

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4 minutes ago, daored said:

The professional game needs to take a long hard look at itself. The greed of the ‘top six’ the desire to get to the promised land of the premier league for two bags of silver for a season. The overspending of clubs is impacting further and further down the league.

Why couldn’t Man Utd or City day to Bolton & Burt will play you pre season , keep the gate receipts instead of corporate tours to the Far East and states

Yep, the desire to be promoted is greater than ever amongst footballing management/boards. 

In general this matters more than anything else. 

Somehow a local, sustainable club that integrates closely with the community in whatever division it finds itself in is no longer so important. 

There's a reason why every owner of a corner shop business doesn't want to develop into the next Tesco. I wish owners would see football clubs the same way. 

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6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I absolutely love a direct, unedited and unreviewed statement from a lower league chairman. 

To clarify - I have sympathy for Bury. Dale's statement, if true, suggests that he and the club have complied with the EFL's demands and been met with a very 'by the book' response. However, I would still urge him to get someone with a basic grasp of grammar to proof-read his statement before he publishes it.

Edited by ExiledAjax

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Now Bury's 2nd game of the season has been postponed too.

Begs the question - wtf have the EFL been doing all summer?

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On 30/07/2019 at 15:03, Monkeh said:

Bolton’s game is only going ahead because the pfa have loaned them money in order to meet the efl deadline

are bury not big enough for the pfa to help them out?

Given Neville Neville’s admirable commitment to the Shakers, I thought Gary, Phil and Man Utd may have helped them out ...

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Forever Bury Emergency Statement

Forever Bury, the Bury Football Club Supporters’ Trust, are today asking the Club’s owner and Chairman, Mr Steven Dale to either ‘put up, or sell up’.

 

Two days before their historic Football Club may well lose its membership after 134 years from the English Football League (EFL), the Supporters’ Trust believe now is the time Mr Dale does the right thing and either commits the resources to sustain the Club this coming season, or alternatively sell the Club to someone who can.

 

Forever Bury are aware that potential bidders have approached Mr Dale with enquiries to purchase the Club and have been unsuccessful in their negotiations, a number of these have turned to Forever Bury for help. Other potential bidders, because of their concern of the response they would receive from the owner, have approached Forever Bury in the first instance. Forever Bury have little power in forcing a sale, this lies mainly in the hands of Mr Dale. However, Forever Bury does know that the majority of the Club’s supporters would dearly like Mr Dale to sell the Club he paid £1 for last December, and allow their nightmares to end.

Forever Bury’s knowledge of the supporters’ wishes was dramatically demonstrated at a Public Meeting held in Bury Town Hall on 5th June, when nearly four hundred fans were asked if they supported the proposal to place the Club in to administration, mainly as a means to remove the current owner. The result was a resounding unanimous, yes.

Mr Dale is currently undertaking a media campaign lambasting the EFL and its stance for upholding the rules that apply to all other seventy one members, while also suggesting he is the innocent altruistic party in this sorry tale.

 

Rather than taking his story to the public, Forever Bury suggests Mr Dale concentrate on the facts of the matter, including the imminent Thursday deadline and address the options available to him and him alone that will prevent Bury Football Club being consigned to history under his watch.

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I suspect that's not going to work. The club owes HMRC £1m. Their other debts before the CVA were £7m and they still have to pay a significant proportion of those. And the EFL estimates they need £1.5m to run the club for the year ahead - which they don't have.

Dale bought the club for £1 in December, it's worth way less than that now, meaning, presumably, that he's going to have to take on personal liability for the debt, or at least a lot of it, when he sells the club - which I guess he can't do - or he's going to have to let it go bust.

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On 02/08/2019 at 23:06, BS4 on Tour... said:

Given Neville Neville’s admirable commitment to the Shakers, I thought Gary, Phil and Man Utd may have helped them out ...

They can’t they are involved with salford

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22 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Is Phil involved at Salford?

FAO @BS4 on Tour...

In 2014, Salford were taken over by former Manchester United players Ryan Giggs, Gary Neville, Phil Neville, Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt, who each own 10% of the club, with businessman Peter Lim owning the rest; David Beckham purchased a 10% share from Peter Lim in January 2019.

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Bury have been given 14 days to avoid being expelled from the EFL after having their Carabao Cup tie with Sheffield Wednesday suspended.

The EFL previously called off Bury's games against MK Dons and Accrington.

The League One club had been given a deadline of Wednesday to show the EFL a plan to pay off outstanding creditors.

But after not providing "the clarity required" they have now had a third game suspended and given two weeks to meet the EFL's insolvency policy.

"Despite continued efforts, regular communication and dialogue with [Bury chairman] Mr Steve Dale and his team, the required evidence has not been forthcoming," EFL executive chair Debbie Jevans said.

"Albeit regretfully, the board has been left with no choice but to take the action it has."

The EFL said they would continue to work "constructively with the club and Mr Dale" to obtain the details required to avoid calling off further fixtures.

BBC Radio Manchester have contacted Bury for comment.

Financially-troubled Bury's first-round match against the Owls had been due to take place at Hillsborough on Tuesday, 13 August.

The club have already been given a 12-point deduction for the season after entering into a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) - which is classed as an insolvency event by the EFL - to try to clear some of their debts.

The Shakers saw a winding-up petition against them dismissed by the High Court on 31 July, while Dale claimed the EFL were "working against" them, to which Jevans later said that the league was "not standing in the way" of the club's survival.

The EFL had previously issued the club with a withdrawal of membership notice - which was itself suspended since 25 July. But this has now been lifted, with the Shakers given until 23 August to prove their financial viability or face expulsion.

Bury, who won promotion from League Two last season, have also previously been referred to an independent disciplinary panel after their opening-day fixture against MK Dons was suspended.

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Doesn't sound good for poor old Bury.  If they are kicked out, I'm guessing it is too late to reprieve Plymouth who finished 21st last year so they'll just play with 23 teams.

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I notice on their website that Bury offer half price, £10 instead of £20 tickets to all matches, to all serving military personnel , and all past served military, as well as all serving police, ambulance and fire service personnel. While a very worthy gesture, that must have cost them a packet every season.

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Bury's away fixture against Rotherham on Tuesday has been suspended by the English Football League - their fifth successive game to be called off.

The suspension comes as the League One club works towards a 23 August deadline to avoid expulsion from the EFL.

The EFL say they have still not had evidence that Bury can pay creditors and have funding for the season ahead.

Owner Steve Dale said earlier this week he has provided the required evidence and is prepared to sell the club.

Shakers staff had issued a statement on Monday which "implored" Dale to accept an offer for Bury, who are yet to play a competitive fixture this season.

The game against the Millers is Bury's fourth League One fixture to be called off, in addition to Tuesday's Carabao Cup tie against Sheffield Wednesday.

Bury have been charged by the EFL for their failure to fulfil that cup fixture, and referred to a disciplinary commission regarding the suspension of their opening four league games.

A club statement said: "We are working tirelessly to find a solution to the current issues we are facing with the EFL. We would like to thank supporters for their patience and understanding at this frustrating time for all involved with Bury Football Club."

Bury have already been given a 12-point deduction after entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) - which is classed as an insolvency event by the EFL - as they try to clear some of their debts.

A winding-up petition against them was dismissed by the High Court on 31 July, with Dale going on to claim the EFL was "working against" the club. The league's executive chair Debbie Jevans later said the EFL was "not standing in the way" of the club's survival.

While a withdrawal of membership was served by the EFL and later suspended earlier in the summer, it has now been lifted, with the club now facing expulsion if financial order cannot be restored by 23 August.

An EFL statement added: "Bury are due to play Tranmere on 24 August and, because of the close proximity to the notice of withdrawal deadline, a decision on whether to suspend that fixture will take place in the early part of week commencing 19 August."

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On 12/08/2019 at 20:26, The Horse With No Name said:

I notice on their website that Bury offer half price, £10 instead of £20 tickets to all matches, to all serving military personnel , and all past served military, as well as all serving police, ambulance and fire service personnel. While a very worthy gesture, that must have cost them a packet every season.

On the other hand, as with all discounts, you could argue that it attracts people who would pay £10, but not £20, so they figure they’re getting something instead of nothing. It can work either way.

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59 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

Could any of these struggling teams merge? 

I honestly wouldn't think so

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On 12/08/2019 at 14:26, The Horse With No Name said:

I notice on their website that Bury offer half price, £10 instead of £20 tickets to all matches, to all serving military personnel , and all past served military, as well as all serving police, ambulance and fire service personnel. While a very worthy gesture, that must have cost them a packet every season.

Military personnel must have looked at that offer of cheap-priced, poor quality, League 2 football and made the gates-opening on a match-day at Gigg Lane look like the Normandy landings (without the machine gun nests, one hopes)

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On 12/08/2019 at 19:49, Red Right Hand said:

Some hope for Bury it seems

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49324224

I think the problem is that the owner says h e is willing to sell...but he wants any new owner to pay all the debts, settle all the bills including all creditors, HMRC, back wages and "compensate' him for all the money he's put in during his ownership. IE he wants to walk away having not lost anything.

If you buy a loss making L2 club. I don't think you can expect your ownership to cost you nothing - who does he think he is ....Wael Al Quadi ?

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2 hours ago, paul_fox said:

Could any of these struggling teams merge? 

Bolton is right next to Bury, but given the proximity the suggestion is probably as popular as the evergreen "Why not merge with Rovers and create Bristol United" one. Also, which league would they play in?

Edited by Red-Robbo
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3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Bolton is right next to Bury, but given the proximity the suggestion is probably as popular as the evergreen "Why not merge with Rovers and create Bristol United" one. Also, which league would they play in?

Yeah was just thinking both teams have a real chance of going under. If they merged and say used Boltons ground, sell Burys for some finance. Would give a higher attendance for home games. In reality I know its highly unlikely and complicated. 

On that subject has any professional clubs merged. I guess some did a long time ago but in recent history? 

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4 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

On that subject has any professional clubs merged. I guess some did a long time ago but in recent history? 

Dagenham and Redbridge were non league (IIRC) when they merged. Inverness and Caledonian Thistle In Scotland perhaps?

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9 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

Yeah was just thinking both teams have a real chance of going under. If they merged and say used Boltons ground, sell Burys for some finance. Would give a higher attendance for home games. In reality I know its highly unlikely and complicated. 

On that subject has any professional clubs merged. I guess some did a long time ago but in recent history? 

None i can think of in our lifetime.

Lots of non-league clubs have: the late Rushden & Diamonds being a good example, but not professionals.

Of course go back far enough and most clubs were formed by mergers. Including our beloved City.

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55 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

None i can think of in our lifetime.

Lots of non-league clubs have: the late Rushden & Diamonds being a good example, but not professionals.

Of course go back far enough and most clubs were formed by mergers. Including our beloved City.

Didn`t the league say it wasn`t allowed when the crook Maxwell wanted to merge Reading and Oxford into Thames Valley Royals?

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3 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Didn`t the league say it wasn`t allowed when the crook Maxwell wanted to merge Reading and Oxford into Thames Valley Royals?

I think you might be right there, RRH. That may be the last attempted merger of professional league clubs.

I think it was as popular with both sets of fans as a lump of cold sick, too.

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On 15/08/2019 at 14:19, paul_fox said:

Could any of these struggling teams merge? 

I understand an economic case for it but the only realistic merger IMO would be 2 struggling clubs from the same city/town in some ways- actually not even realistic, remote.

Two clubs each important to community- Bury are I'd have thought given size of club pretty close to community, couldn't see that happening tbh.

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1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

 

Thanks for sharing.  Very frustrating interview because I think both TalkSport and Steve Dale were asking and answering different Qs.  Dale adamant that PFA are paying 50% of the wages to players under the agreement that Dale pays them back.

The question that wasn't asked was is anyone paying the other 50%.

I suspect that is a large proportion of people in this country who would "go under" if they were only paid half their wages for 6 months.  Footballers down in Lg1/2 are not earning stupid amounts, some are and they drag the average up.  A good percentage won't be and they'll have large commitments, e.g. mortgages etc.  Its quite possible in Dawson's case that he's already defaulted on mortgage, loan, lease payments.

The lack of empathy and belief by Dale is shocking.  I appreciate he's been stitched up when buying the club, but to keep going on about whether Dawson has been paid, but not specifically whether Dawson has been paid in full, shows him in a very poor light.

Whilst in some ways the odd club needs to go bust to make other clubs rein in their spending, the likes of Bury, serving a community, is not the club to made others think harder.

It's a mess, same with Bolton and others....and the EFL are not doing anyone any favours.

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31 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Bolton’s next match postponed because of ‘welfare concerns’ for their young players. 

Yes, "overplaying of young players".

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