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the red rules

No standing on back row of South Stannd and Dolman

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2 hours ago, mutts said:

As far as in aware ..We have reduced capacity in S25 as a result .A concession the club make 

That is officially for it to be un reserved, not to let people stand. 

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7 hours ago, Blagdon red said:

Welcome to the totally illogical world of football ground safety, where one of the most contentious regulations is based on now totally discredited views on the cause of Hillsborough, which have since been proved in the courts to have been completely wrong.

It is time that politicians revoked a standing ban based on a lie.

 

Maybe a petition is required so it can be discussed in parliament? Bound to get enough signatures to do this...safe standing maybe the best way to position it.

(Can’t recall if a petition has been performed before hence the question)

No point starting it now...they can’t discuss it until mid October anyway!

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8 hours ago, 054123 said:

Waste of time and effort.

There really isn’t an issue.

Well there is an issue. Whether it’s right or wrong if people persist on standing the EFL are like to take some action against the club, just because some people are precious of being able to stand in seats that are explicitly seated. 

The attitude of some people never ceases to amaze me when it comes to doing as they’re told for the benefit of the club. This is hardly some Rosa Parks esque protest - it’s standing at a football match.

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On 08/08/2019 at 22:59, TomF said:

If it’s a first offence that’s generally the case. 

It's not a first offence (not 2nd, 3rd, 4th....)

I've previously had run-ins with the muppet head of Security (sic) when purchasing season tickets re lack of data security and data compliance.

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6 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

Well there is an issue. Whether it’s right or wrong if people persist on standing the EFL are like to take some action against the club, just because some people are precious of being able to stand in seats that are explicitly seated. 

The attitude of some people never ceases to amaze me when it comes to doing as they’re told for the benefit of the club. This is hardly some Rosa Parks esque protest - it’s standing at a football match.

It’s nothing to do with the EFL

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2 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

They’re the most likely to take action prior to something more serious like an issue with the safety certificate.

 

 Please expand, as they really won’t, 

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If this is a safety issue, would someone enlighten me please, as to why a few individuals standing in the back row is now a problem, whilst the singing section have the blessing of the club to stand?

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32 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

 Please expand, as they really won’t, 

If a Championship club are about to lose their safety certificate and therefore risk having their stadium shut to spectators the EFL will take action to prevent this. Probably way before it even gets close.

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1 hour ago, WestonRobin said:

Maybe a petition is required so it can be discussed in parliament? Bound to get enough signatures to do this...safe standing maybe the best way to position it.

(Can’t recall if a petition has been performed before hence the question)

No point starting it now...they can’t discuss it until mid October anyway!

112k signed for safe standing. It is hopefully getting ever closer.

It won't be on the agenda properly for a while realistically speaking IMO.

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1 hour ago, Redinthehead said:

Well there is an issue. Whether it’s right or wrong if people persist on standing the EFL are like to take some action against the club, just because some people are precious of being able to stand in seats that are explicitly seated. 

The attitude of some people never ceases to amaze me when it comes to doing as they’re told for the benefit of the club. This is hardly some Rosa Parks esque protest - it’s standing at a football match.

The letter stated SAG and SGSA.

I have no reason to disbelieve it and I believe the SAG to be the primary drivers here.

25 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

If a Championship club are about to lose their safety certificate and therefore risk having their stadium shut to spectators the EFL will take action to prevent this. Probably way before it even gets close.

Could you expand on this please?

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10 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Were you close enough to hear what was going on Baldy (What the approach of the stewards was ?) 

In the back of the south stand they were taking the tickets of people who weren't sitting down, I assume then taking the names, of the people. Also they are feeding the people they are coming down in a load of total shite that section 82 are allowed to stand and it's only the 20/30 people in the back of S24 who are not allowed to stand. The only reason that they are picking on those at the back of the south stand and dolman and not s82 is there are only a few of us at the back of the south stand so they can get away with it. 

 

When the Kop sits down then I will believe that standing in a seated area is unsafe. 

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4 hours ago, Redinthehead said:

Well there is an issue. Whether it’s right or wrong if people persist on standing the EFL are like to take some action against the club, just because some people are precious of being able to stand in seats that are explicitly seated. 

The attitude of some people never ceases to amaze me when it comes to doing as they’re told for the benefit of the club. This is hardly some Rosa Parks esque protest - it’s standing at a football match.

No there isn’t.

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4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could you expand on this please?

If a club loses their safety certificate they would have to play in front of a reduced or even no crowd. The EFL would step in way before it came to this as they wouldn’t want it to happen.

54 minutes ago, 054123 said:

No there isn’t.

Great.

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13 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

If a club loses their safety certificate they would have to play in front of a reduced or even no crowd. The EFL would step in way before it came to this as they wouldn’t want it to happen.

Great.

How many clubs have had their safety certificate revoked for standing on the top row? I'll give you a clue, it's less than one!

You're suggesting that the EFL would hand down sanctions to preempt this?

What I would add as well, is that this would shine a serious spotlight on the SAG.

Such a decision would make waves and I don't believe they much like scrutiny?

That's before we even get onto legal action. Which would inevitably follow such a decision because of the aforementioned other stadia not subject to such restrictions!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How many clubs have had their safety certificate revoked for standing on the top row? I'll give you a clue, it's less than one!

You're suggesting that the EFL would hand down sanctions to preempt this?

What I would add as well, is that this woild shine a serious spotlight on the SAG. Such a decision would make waves and I don't believe they much like scrutiny?

That's before we even get onto legal action!

None yet - I think any club would deal with it before that would happen anyway. 

Legal action? ‘Please judge I want to be able to stand up in this seat that was explicitly sold to me on the basis I remain seated’ good luck! 

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16 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

None yet - I think any club would deal with it before that would happen anyway. 

Legal action? ‘Please judge I want to be able to stand up in this seat that was explicitly sold to me on the basis I remain seated’ good luck! 

The legal action would stem from the fact there are countless examples across the country of no such punitive action being taken for this. In terms of behind closed doors if we're being specific. Especially as the club can show that they've taken all reasonable steps!

These are national regulations, being applied at wildly different levels locally. However the SGSA are a NATIONAL body and given they are national means apply consistently or not at all.

I also maintain the SAG reign of secrecy in such a scenario would be in jeopardy. They wouldn't like that!

Councillors are linked to the SAG by dint of local Authority SAG. Councillors have low majorities and relatively low turnout so certain seemingly random factors can tip a balance- might be worth relevant councillors remembering the fact. :thumbsup:

Did you know the SGSA had a regional Conference at AG this February? Research skills combined with the internet is a wonderful thing!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, Redinthehead said:

If a club loses their safety certificate they would have to play in front of a reduced or even no crowd. The EFL would step in way before it came to this as they wouldn’t want it to happen.

Great.

Thanks.

Edited by 054123

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15 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Were you close enough to hear what was going on Baldy (What the approach of the stewards was ?) 

Sorry Bob , only just gone back on the site . Yes , I sit 3 rows from the top of the SS and despite numerous people standing the chief Steward took it upon himself to single out 1 lad aged about 17 and took his ticket details barely passing a glance at the the rest of them . This lad understandably lost the plot a little causing some of the older guys around him to lose it a little too . The stewards eventually seemed to realise they were creating far more of an issue than the situation warranted and backed off . 

Edited by Baldyman
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2 hours ago, 054123 said:

No there isn’t.

There is and there isn't.

In all real terms, I agree it's no issue or shouldn't be one.

Yet, there is an issue in that the club seems to be coming under pressure to deal with it from those outside bodies.

A case of something and nothing!

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Listening to the podcast now.

About a hour and a half in or so it referenced this issue.

One of the more amusing/surreal bits of it, sounds like the stewards eventually went away and got a loud rendition of "Cheerio, Cheerio, Cheerio"- and gave a wave back!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Listening to the podcast now.

About a hour and a half in or so it referenced this issue.

One of the more amusing/surreal bits of it, sounds like the stewards eventually went away and got a loud rendition of "Cheerio, Cheerio, Cheerio"- and gave a wave back!

Mr Popodoplous, i saw that waving as acting unprofessionally to be honest. They are/were there to do a job, not interact in a "jokey manner" with fans.

You could see at times they were there trying to play up to the crowd in some ways, and if anything getting more of a reaction from people.

Edited by AshtonPark

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16 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

Mr Popodoplous, i saw that waving as acting unprofessionally to be honest. They are/were there to do a job, not interact in a "jokey manner" with fans.

You could see at times they were there trying to play up to the crowd in some ways, and if anything getting more of a reaction from people.

Wasn't sure what to make of it when I heard it mentioned on the podcast. Wasn't sure if it was hostile or humourous, without watching the footage if there is any.

I did though hear the loud chants of "Cheerio". Has to be more encouraging than outright mutual hostility? I fear this issue will run however...

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Myself, my kids and mates all have tickets in the back row of the south stand. I am one of the persistent standing fans so I thought I’d try and sit for the majority of the game Saturday. When we equalised I jumped up to celebrate and fell over the bloody seat in front of me !!

safer to stand. 

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25 minutes ago, Portred said:

Myself, my kids and mates all have tickets in the back row of the south stand. I am one of the persistent standing fans so I thought I’d try and sit for the majority of the game Saturday. When we equalised I jumped up to celebrate and fell over the bloody seat in front of me !!

safer to stand. 

Especially for the bloke in front of you!😂😂✌️

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9 minutes ago, City Cat said:

Especially for the bloke in front of you!😂😂✌️

Indeed, I am a big bloke too. My apologies to the fella I landed on !!

obviously said sorry Saturday but if the bloke is reading again my apologies to you 👍👍

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Look what it is tomorrow!

That wouldn't be the same SGSA who are causing more problems than they are solving with their insistence or a role in the insistence the back rows sit would it?? Not just at AG but other grounds too I am sure.

On the agenda it seems amongst other things, is "Persistent standing".

It's a shame about them insisting in this particular case because in general terms, their announcements are pretty pragmatic, presumably this reflects their mindset which could well be the same.

Lesser of 2 evils in general terms when set against the SAG I believe. In fact that's a bit unfair...as I suspect overall that the SGSA are quite a bit better than the SAG.

Sadly tickets are sold out I believe, if the public are even allowed to attend in any case. 😐

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Look what it is tomorrow!

That wouldn't be the same SGSA who are causing more problems than they are solving with their insistence or a role in the insistence the back rows sit would it?? Not just at AG but other grounds too I am sure.

On the agenda it seems amongst other things, is "Persistent standing".

It's a shame about them insisting in this particular case because in general terms, their announcements are pretty pragmatic, presumably this reflects their mindset which could well be the same.

Lesser of 2 evils in general terms when set against the SAG I believe. In fact, I suspect overall that the SGSA are quite a bit better than the SAG.

Sadly tickets are sold out I believe, if the public are even allowed to attend in any case. 😐

That is what I was wondering, can anyone attend as they do state " We're looking forward to seeing lots of our colleagues from sports grounds, local authorities, emergency services and others". 

I wonder who are classed as others? I don't see them allowing anyone to buy tickets as they surely know that they could get some grief?

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31 minutes ago, wood_red said:

That is what I was wondering, can anyone attend as they do state " We're looking forward to seeing lots of our colleagues from sports grounds, local authorities, emergency services and others". 

I wonder who are classed as others? I don't see them allowing anyone to buy tickets as they surely know that they could get some grief?

I'd suggest not- probably other professional bodies maybe covered by others.

The risk of grief yes, my thinking was turn up and raise points in meetings, that sort of thing. Casual research into it suggests that like a lot of conferences, it isn't open to the general public. They are still more transparent and enlightened than our local SAG though it seems.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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A fans rep would be welcome at this sort of aspect of the event IMO. Fans reps from clubs in fact.

To put across the point of how attempted enforcement of persistent standing for safety reasons can actually have a pretty different effect!

This is probably the substance of it!

Heartening to see a rep from the FSA there- putting points across. Overall as an organisation, they seem a lot better than SAGs, at least our one.

I'll  pull out the key Tweets later and stick them on here.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Seems there will be a podcast of the debate on this!

If they follow through and if is publicly available then :clap:

The SAG could learn a lot from such an approach tbh.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Looked for a few- this one seems significant.

Looking forward to the podcast, if it is released in the public domain!

One I missed though, but consistent with what we know unfortunately.

The SGSA is a Government body. Seems the plan is to try to enforce in order to try to facilitate a move forward on the safe standing front? Quid pro quo.

In any case though, trying to enforce the back row is a nonsense. 

Another tweet that gives ground for cautious optimism moving forward- not so much the above but the next one.

 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Suppose I should ask the question.

Yesterday, the first home game since the fun and games v Middlesbrough in the South Stand, how rigorously was this enforced or at least attempted to be so Saturday?

Certainly didn't hear a repeat of "We're all standing over here" etc.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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In the Dolman quite a few stood up at the back behind the seats, steward came along and attempted to get people to sit down after about 30 minutes in. A few stayed stood up, and he tried to get people to sit down in back row of the 'A' block but there were a few rows standing so ones at the back were saying they couldn't sit down as ones in front were stood. I did see one get to his back row seat and stand there and he got told to sit down - whereas a few weeks ago nothing got said about that. A few stayed stood in second half and I think the steward just gave up.

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I looked around to see if there was a repeat but didn’t notice anything even though fans were standing, although I did notice there were quite a few standing in the back row of the lower Lansdown 😂. Anarchy amongst the prawn sandwiches.

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