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Seneca the Younger

(Not happening) Expanding the ground

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Purely hypothetical but what do you think it will take to expand the ground? Premiership football for 3 years? A season of nearly constant sell outs? 

Also, I’m sure when the stadium redevelopment was announced it was stated that our ground could be expanded again to 38,000(?) but I can’t find any evidence of this from a quick google search, did I make that up?

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If we get to the prem you have to wonder if it would be worth doing it.

The amount of telly money would make gate receipts less of a concern, and do you spend 40mil or more on making it bigger if what you can charge for a seat doesn't yield much of a return.

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52 minutes ago, Unan said:

Purely hypothetical but what do you think it will take to expand the ground? Premiership football for 3 years? A season of nearly constant sell outs? 

Also, I’m sure when the stadium redevelopment was announced it was stated that our ground could be expanded again to 38,000(?) but I can’t find any evidence of this from a quick google search, did I make that up?

Pretty certain the south stand has been built so that a top tier can be added..

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55 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

If we get to the prem you have to wonder if it would be worth doing it.

The amount of telly money would make gate receipts less of a concern, and do you spend 40mil or more on making it bigger if what you can charge for a seat doesn't yield much of a return.

Add in hospitality and that makes it much more financially viable. 

The hospitality suits us now but we would be losing out on money in the Prem by not having the extra facilities.

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Not sure we will see any changes

If we get to the Prem we could play to an empty ground and still make money

There are many sides who have been in and around the Prem with smaller grounds than us

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If we get there I wonder whether we'd bank 'X' amount and set it aside for the rebuild of the Dolman which would include more hospitality areas etc in its rebuild, a rebuilt Dolman could push us to the 30,000 mark which would probably be enough.

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4 minutes ago, hodge said:

If we get there I wonder whether we'd bank 'X' amount and set it aside for the rebuild of the Dolman which would include more hospitality areas etc in its rebuild, a rebuilt Dolman could push us to the 30,000 mark which would probably be enough.

I think that's more likely. Redeveloping the away end doesn't make much sense for hospitality. 

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Two tier Atyeo with the upper tier built over the top like Liverpool’s new basking shark stand. I believe that is the plan. Further phase to replace Dolman with a mirror image of the west stand is further off.

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At the time of the plans SL said he considered building to 35k including Atyeo but they decided against it. Presumably on the basis of lets fill 27k first.

No idea what they can do without buying all the houses behind though.

I’d have thought it’d be quite limited so as not to be financially worthwhile for the degree of expanded capacity. 

 

Edited by Warwickshire Red
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15 minutes ago, Unan said:

Err I literally put “not happening” before the title 

I read that as; expanding the stadium ain't happening (must have had Yoda saying it in my head).

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If we get to the Prem and go for expansion we could well be back down again before it was completed. We really could end up with a half empty stadium in that case with no atmosphere. Think we need a few years consolidation with full gates first.

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12 minutes ago, marmite said:

If we get to the Prem and go for expansion we could well be back down again before it was completed. We really could end up with a half empty stadium in that case with no atmosphere. Think we need a few years consolidation with full gates first.

simple, just concentrate the fans in the lower tier

 

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I know aesthetically the Atyeo stand does kind of stick out a bit like a sore thumb.

But in terms of view, capacity for away fans (like it or not) and potential for atmosphere generation there are far far worse stands in the Championship and even the Premier league.

Perhaps filling in the corners and a bit of cladding to match the other stands would make that end look a whole lot more integrated than necessarily rebuilding it just to make more capacity the probably isn't needed anyway.

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36 minutes ago, cider hoss rules said:

I know aesthetically the Atyeo stand does kind of stick out a bit like a sore thumb.

But in terms of view, capacity for away fans (like it or not) and potential for atmosphere generation there are far far worse stands in the Championship and even the Premier league.

Perhaps filling in the corners and a bit of cladding to match the other stands would make that end look a whole lot more integrated than necessarily rebuilding it just to make more capacity the probably isn't needed anyway.

I've said it before IF we get to the Premiership 27,000 will be completely inadequate, yes for some games it might be just enough, but we could sell 40,000 for at least 8 to 10 games all these people saying oh it's plenty big enough will be the first ones moaning when they can't get a season ticket for love or money.

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2 hours ago, bris red said:

Pretty certain the south stand has been built so that a top tier can be added..

The view across the pitch to the gorge and bridge would be amazing.

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3 hours ago, bris red said:

Pretty certain the south stand has been built so that a top tier can be added..

You could only build on top of the south stand, if lansdown bought at least half a dozen houses at the back. Couldn't see it happening otherwise. 

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It won't happen (imho) but given the land that SL has bought if you rotated the pitch you could get a capacity of 50k. Would likely mean starting from scratch and binning the plan for the indoor arene, car park and hotels......

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1 hour ago, Loco Rojo said:

I read that as; expanding the stadium ain't happening (must have had Yoda saying it in my head).

In your head, Yoda was

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5 hours ago, bris red said:

Pretty certain the south stand has been built so that a top tier can be added..

Has it? Great if it has but not sure how that would work Worn House’s/gardens behind. 

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4 minutes ago, mightyreds89 said:

Has it? Great if it has but not sure how that would work Worn House’s/gardens behind. 

Stadium construction has allowed secondary (or more) tiers to be added without requiring a complete rebuild for a while, so would certainly expect that to be the way the South Stand would be increased. Though as mentioned up to 8 or even 10 semis on Rains Rd would need to be purchased.

With the profiling of the Atyeo it might not work for that so would probably need a complete rebuild. With the need to buy 18 houses on Ashton Rd as well a South Stand expansion would almost certainly be undertaken first.

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3 hours ago, The Batman said:

When the Atyeo is rebuilt, it'll look like this. 

IMG_20190809_164150.jpg

Would look awesome but we would probably have to buy Greville Smyth Park to make it feasible!

If we did something like this to match the height of the Lansdown it would certainly be impressive and push us near 35k capacity.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

We can't fill what we have the best we can do is 20-21 thousand 1500 empty seats in the away end every week if sold out

If we were top 2/3 all season I think we’d be sold out most weeks. Do you not? 

 

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2 hours ago, mightyreds89 said:

If we were top 2/3 all season I think we’d be sold out most weeks. Do you not? 

 

Last two seasons home support (minus away fans) has averaged around 19,500 and I don't see that changing much this season either. If we reach the Prem I'd still be surprised if it rose much more than 21,000 average. Away fans might bump it up though by filling the Atyeo most weeks. Does anyone know how many fans Prem clubs take away on average? Can't see many averaging more than 4,000 week in week out. 

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1 minute ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Last two seasons home support (minus away fans) has averaged around 19,500 and I don't see that changing much this season either. If we reach the Prem I'd still be surprised if it rose much more than 21,000 average. Away fans might bump it up though by filling the Atyeo most weeks. Does anyone know how many fans Prem clubs take away on average? Can't see many averaging more than 4,000 week in week out. 

We would average more than 21k in the Prem. I’d go as far as to say there would be a very good chance we would sell out season tickets.

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2 minutes ago, bris red said:

We would average more than 21k in the Prem. I’d go as far as to say there would be a very good chance we would sell out season tickets.

Like your confidence but based on what. In the days of standing when the ground held 38,000 we averaged in total (Inc away fans) 23,500. And before being accused of living in the past and times have changed, they really haven't that much. As much as Sky and the BBC would like us to believe it football did not start in 1992 with the Premier League.

I can see a first honeymoon season when we might sell out most weeks in the Prem but I'm not convinced it would last. Selling out season tickets may well depend on price. 

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Doesn’t the maximum away allocation reduce when in the premiership? If so any additional home fans would take up some part of the Atyeo. 

 

Plus if fans complain that they can’t get season tickets when in the premiership, why not get them now when we’re not there? 

I don’t get this feel sorry for the ones missing out, why are they not going to games now so the club can get more revenue. That way if we do go up they get early bird options so get their tickets for the season in the Prem. 

Edited by RedorDead BCFC

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Impossible for the south stand to be extended without the purchase and demolition of 10 house at the dolman end

Dolman also would require demolition of nelson Mandela house for a much larger rebuild, and in fact I can’t ever see the housing situation being solved behind the Atyeo to expand there either!

a rethink and modern rebuild of the Atyeo probably the only option for a small expansion, up to 30k which despite comments here we don’t need any more than that

Edited by Fjmcity
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1 hour ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Like your confidence but based on what. In the days of standing when the ground held 38,000 we averaged in total (Inc away fans) 23,500. And before being accused of living in the past and times have changed, they really haven't that much. As much as Sky and the BBC would like us to believe it football did not start in 1992 with the Premier League.

I can see a first honeymoon season when we might sell out most weeks in the Prem but I'm not convinced it would last. Selling out season tickets may well depend on price. 

We averaged over 21,000 last season, do you really think we would only average a couple of thousand more in the Premier league? if we can take over 40,000 to London for the paint pot trophy playing the likes of Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea, means there will be many games when we could easily sell 40,000 and another half a dozen where we could expect over 30,000, I think you are being overly pessimistic. 

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10 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

I think that's more likely. Redeveloping the away end doesn't make much sense for hospitality. 

It does if the houses are knocked down as you would get an incredible view.

4 hours ago, awbb said:

Stadium construction has allowed secondary (or more) tiers to be added without requiring a complete rebuild for a while, so would certainly expect that to be the way the South Stand would be increased. Though as mentioned up to 8 or even 10 semis on Rains Rd would need to be purchased.

With the profiling of the Atyeo it might not work for that so would probably need a complete rebuild. With the need to buy 18 houses on Ashton Rd as well a South Stand expansion would almost certainly be undertaken first.

I think purchasing a part of their gardens would be sufficient.

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54 minutes ago, pillred said:

We averaged over 21,000 last season, do you really think we would only average a couple of thousand more in the Premier league? if we can take over 40,000 to London for the paint pot trophy playing the likes of Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea, means there will be many games when we could easily sell 40,000 and another half a dozen where we could expect over 30,000, I think you are being overly pessimistic. 

I was talking about home fans only. In terms of home fans we averaged 19500 last season, not 21000 which was the figure inclusive of away support and which is fickle dependent on tickets allocated, distance to travel, timing of match etc. The number of supporters  we take to a Wembley final is irrelevant, as evidenced by the SAGS who have sometimes taken more than us due to allocations. We could undoubtedly sell more when playing the top 6, although many of these would to plastics not true City supporters, but matches against the likes of Burnley on a Tuesday night would not sell out and would bring the average down. With the cost of football being what it is I have doubts as to whether we could sell out the home areas of AG every week for more than an initial season. Whether it's palatable or not Bristol is not a football mad city and there are many who, given the choice, would work overtime on a Saturday rather than attend a football match. 

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IF we ever got to the so called promised land we would be the only club in the whole of the south west. 

Now that is some catchment area and who knows how many would want to watch premier league football  ?

but like people have said after the honeymoon period what would it drop down to ?

How many people have you heard say if we got promoted they would come and watch us play.....

 

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Ticket sales used to be everything - a significant proportion of club income.

As has been said above, the income for being a Premier League team now dwarves the revenue from fans at the turnstiles.

There's really no financial argument for expanding the stadium (with the complexity of the build and/or the need to purchase houses).

The only reasons to expand Ashton Gate now would be for vanity and potentially a better atmosphere. For structural issues, the Dolman might need replacing before too long as I'm sure the club have identified it has a finite lifespan.

We would definitely increase our average attendance in the Prem but I wouldn't like to be in Cardiff's position where they close off the upper tier of their blue/red stand everytime they get relegated. Their capacity is too big for them in the Championship.

For the time being, I think 27,000 is about right although I would love to see the Atyeo rebuilt.

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To justify the rebuild of the Atyeo and the possible land purchase both City and Bears will need to be selling out multiple games a season. Both will likely need to be regularly competing at a higher level than they're currently at; City in prem and Bears in Champions Cup/premiership play-offs. Some better marketing would help too, further afield from the city itself.

It's definitely possible and should be a realistic goal in time. I like how both clubs are progressing, steady building is the way.

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14 hours ago, pillred said:

I've said it before IF we get to the Premiership 27,000 will be completely inadequate, yes for some games it might be just enough, but we could sell 40,000 for at least 8 to 10 games all these people saying oh it's plenty big enough will be the first ones moaning when they can't get a season ticket for love or money.

Agreed, but considering any expansion would probably take 2-3 years to complete we’d need to be established in the Prem to even worry.

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11 hours ago, mightyreds89 said:

If we were top 2/3 all season I think we’d be sold out most weeks. Do you not? 

 

Have a word with yourself!! Correct if we were top 2/3 in the Prem we would be sold out.

That means rubbing shoulders with the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Spurs etc. Not likely to happen anytime soon. Got to get their first!!!

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6 hours ago, sticks 1969 said:

IF we ever got to the so called promised land we would be the only club in the whole of the south west. 

Now that is some catchment area and who knows how many would want to watch premier league football  ?

but like people have said after the honeymoon period what would it drop down to ?

How many people have you heard say if we got promoted they would come and watch us play.....

 

What were Cardiff's gates like in a struggling premier league season?

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5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

What were Cardiff's gates like in a struggling premier league season?

Its a good point. But I have a feeling you won't be able to get a ticket for love nor money if we make it. Whether we're winning or losing. 

We have hundreds of thousands of couch potato plastics with Sky TV in Bristol. They'd lap it up. 

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12 hours ago, Crackers Corner said:

I thought safe standing boosts capacity if we get that

How does it increase capacity, when everyone is still allocated a seat, but it’s just locked upright..?

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Does anyone not find it strange that what we are talking about extending the ground if we got to the Prem to get more fans in, who would then not go again when the club once relegated? 

How many of the supporters who bought a half season ticket, to ensure they got to go the Manure game actually carried on going after? 

Cardiff showed that by opening top tier for Prem to then closing it. 

Edited by RedorDead BCFC

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10 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Like your confidence but based on what. In the days of standing when the ground held 38,000 we averaged in total (Inc away fans) 23,500. And before being accused of living in the past and times have changed, they really haven't that much. As much as Sky and the BBC would like us to believe it football did not start in 1992 with the Premier League.

I can see a first honeymoon season when we might sell out most weeks in the Prem but I'm not convinced it would last. Selling out season tickets may well depend on price. 

Being honest, back in 2012, 2013 or before that if someone had said on here "with a modernised ground we will average 15k for finishing 18th in the Championship and then over 20k for more Championship football, shifting 15k season tickets" your thoughts would've been pretty much the same, wouldn't they? Who saw this coming, other than SL?

I think we have surprised ourselves with our numbers showing up (although the docile, unenthusiastic, "ffs Pack/City!" quality of support continues unchanged) and who knows what further support is out there, while the nationwide enthusiasm for the game goes on

 

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