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redordead1

The Nketiah Deal - behind the scenes (long article)

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Seems pretty safe to say either Leeds play Nketiah a lot or arsenal aren't going to look fondly on loaning them more players 

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One part doesn’t make sense, if Dusseldorf were at the front of the queue why did city arrange a medical? 

Nothing in that article fits the narrative of last week of arsenal assuring city that we were their first choice and the transfer being all but agreed before Leeds crashed the party, rather it paints a picture of Leeds having done their homework more so than us and Dusseldorf and city then jumping the gun in arranging a medical

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When all’s said and done, It’s not what you know it’s who you know. Arsenal’s manager and the guy from Leeds have known each other for a long time. You can’t tell me that didn’t effect the outcome in some way. 

I still hope it doesn’t go well for the lad at Leeds because of the way we were messed around. 

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Very interesting read. Seems like the medical was set up in hope, rather than expectation. It also seems extremely intricate and impressive from Arsenal. I’m surprised more clubs don’t appear to follow suit with such commodities.

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Pah. It's gone. Let's just hope we get Afobe firing - I think he could be a better bet over a long season of championship football. 

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Leeds = Bigger club 

Orto, peed it , mates with Emery obvious choice .

Sounds like we were very , very close to landing one of England’s brightest talents and that is how far we’ve come in a short space of time.

 

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21 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

One part doesn’t make sense, if Dusseldorf were at the front of the queue why did city arrange a medical?

Time frame that was left in the window probably, better to have it booked and not need it then the other way round

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If that's how it panned out, no wonder LJ was left feeling downhearted.

Interesting Arsenal are setting up a transition team...pretty much what Tinman is doing.

Just shows you how much work and effort goes into making a signing these days. Months of it. 

Doesn't really fit with the transfer window system as it stands...polar opposites.

I still think Afobe could work out a better option overall though. Fingers crossed.

 

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9 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Also interesting, if Arsenal are so thorough and data driven, why did the shocking under utilisation of the three Chelsea lads not get a mention?

You could ask the same about our utilisation of Ryan Kent

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The more I get to know how the game works, the less I like it. I reckon being ignorant/deluded and keeping a distance is best (even if it means blaming, wrongly, LJ/MA/Bailey Wright for everything, poor sods). The fawning and bowing and scraping involved, while they demand an extortionate fee as well, to these almighty PL clubs, makes my skin crawl.

 

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18 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Also interesting, if Arsenal are so thorough and data driven, why did the shocking under utilisation of the three Chelsea lads not get a mention?

Cos they're full of sh1t, like so many - it would appear - in top level football 

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9 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

You could ask the same about our utilisation of Ryan Kent

At the time he wasn't considered good enough.

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Where's the Bristol City writer for The Athletic? They seem to be chucking big money at journalists. Good article that, not sure the full price sub is worth it.

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3 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Moral of the story? Be very wary of doing further loan business with Arsenal. If Emery’s dithering is typical of the man, and he has the last word, he could be a nightmare to deal with. The fact that it went to the wire after we’d been given reason to think we were likely to get the player seems to have had a distorting effect on our recruitment strategy, and left us scrabbling around for last minute deals. Why take the risk of a repeat of this shambles? Our well established links with Chelsea appear to be based on mutual respect and trust and we’d be better off cultivating that source than having to try to sell ourselves every time an Arsenal youngster becomes available - especially as, for all the supposed thoroughness and professionalism of the process, there remains the distinct impression that personal connections might well have swung it I the end. Screw ‘em.

Those personal connections would , normally, make a difference. Fine margins but ultimately the trust between friends wins.

 

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It sounds like LJ, whilst impressing was ‘flying solo’ on the pitch and maybe MA was ,not surprisingly,  busy on other deals. If MA (our best closer of deals) wasn’t there then maybe that was a mistake on our part. If that was the case then I think we can be confident that next time he will be there for such a crucial deal. 

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22 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Pah. It's gone. Let's just hope we get Afobe firing - I think he could be a better bet over a long season of championship football. 

Love your optimism, Reggie, but I’ll wager a tenner that Nketia is higher in the scoring charts at the end of the season. Having said that, I like Afobe and, given good service,  he could well be a 15-20 goal man by the end of the season - if we give him the service and he gets his mojo back.

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10 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Moral of the story? Be very wary of doing further loan business with Arsenal. If Emery’s dithering is typical of the man, and he has the last word, he could be a nightmare to deal with. The fact that it went to the wire after we’d been given reason to think we were likely to get the player seems to have had a distorting effect on our recruitment strategy, and left us scrabbling around for last minute deals. Why take the risk of a repeat of this shambles? Our well established links with Chelsea appear to be based on mutual respect and trust and we’d be better off cultivating that source than having to try to sell ourselves every time an Arsenal youngster becomes available - especially as, for all the supposed thoroughness and professionalism of the process, there remains the distinct impression that personal connections might well have swung it in the end. Screw ‘em.

It's quite ironic how it is being heralded as super-professional when a) Arsenal's treatment of the other clubs and b) this personal connection that may have won it for Leeds have little to do with professionalism whatsoever.

The article does a good job of dressing it up. Fortunately plenty of other clubs to do business with.

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Good insight into what had happened, its good to put some details to the scenario as when it was playing out nobody had a clue what was going on.

Leave Arsenal youngsters alone now, we cant be relying on them when their management is so indecisive. Time was running out for us and we are quite lucky to get Afobe in at such short notice. The best revenge we can get now is finishing above Leeds in the league and Afobe scoring more than Nketiah.

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4 minutes ago, Orbital said:

Love your optimism, Reggie, but I’ll wager a tenner that Nketia is higher in the scoring charts at the end of the season. 

Depends how much Leeds use him. The Chelsea boys got nowt and Bamford isn’t going to be saying ‘after you, old boy’. 

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21 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Moral of the story? Be very wary of doing further loan business with Arsenal. If Emery’s dithering is typical of the man, and he has the last word, he could be a nightmare to deal with. The fact that it went to the wire after we’d been given reason to think we were likely to get the player seems to have had a distorting effect on our recruitment strategy, and left us scrabbling around for last minute deals. Why take the risk of a repeat of this shambles? Our well established links with Chelsea appear to be based on mutual respect and trust and we’d be better off cultivating that source than having to try to sell ourselves every time an Arsenal youngster becomes available - especially as, for all the supposed thoroughness and professionalism of the process, there remains the distinct impression that personal connections might well have swung it I the end. Screw ‘em.

Think in the final analysis it was the absolute detail Leeds went into on their tactics, strategy and video clips of how the lad played and how he would fit into their style of play.That and the obvious exposure on Sky (3x in first 3 games !!!) Plus the friendship with the Arsenal manager and a big cheque (over£3m)

Sure LJs presentation was polished but probably edged by the detail used by Leeds - maybe some learning for the City team.

Coming a close second will stand us in good stead should we call on Arsenal again, and good experience for future Premier League dealings.

 

 

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1 hour ago, walnutroof said:

One part doesn’t make sense, if Dusseldorf were at the front of the queue why did city arrange a medical? 

Nothing in that article fits the narrative of last week of arsenal assuring city that we were their first choice and the transfer being all but agreed before Leeds crashed the party, rather it paints a picture of Leeds having done their homework more so than us and Dusseldorf and city then jumping the gun in arranging a medical

It was probably their way of putting a foot down and implementing a deadline. Either he’s here at the medical tomorrow morning or we’re moving on. 

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19 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

It sounds like LJ, whilst impressing was ‘flying solo’ on the pitch and maybe MA was ,not surprisingly,  busy on other deals. If MA (our best closer of deals) wasn’t there then maybe that was a mistake on our part. If that was the case then I think we can be confident that next time he will be there for such a crucial deal. 

Pure conjecture on your part.

My reading of it is all competing clubs had met the financial terms of the loan, and this was a straight footballing conversation.  No need for MA to attend.

As Major said, we've come a long way and I suspect the personal relationship sealed it for Leeds.

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30 minutes ago, swanker said:

When all’s said and done, It’s not what you know it’s who you know. Arsenal’s manager and the guy from Leeds have known each other for a long time. You can’t tell me that didn’t effect the outcome in some way. 

I still hope it doesn’t go well for the lad at Leeds because of the way we were messed around. 

These are my sentiments exactly. It's a fascinating article but you can cut out all the waffle and pin most of it down to about two things: Leeds being a better side than us at the moment, and, most significantly, Emery's relationship with Orta. 

A few other points: 

- Leeds were said to have come into the frame at the last minute, and yet they scouted him 20 times? How does that add up then? 

- Why does everyone treat Bielsa like he's some sort of God? He hasn't won a lot in his career, usually resigns after about 1-2 seasons and bottled promotion last season. 

- If Arsenal's analysis was so thorough, how could they have missed Leeds' poor treatment of those Chelsea players? Then again, we've all witnessed Arsenal's misfiring on the pitch over the last 15 years. 

I think we're probably better off without Nketiah anyway. It sounds like there's hell of a lot of baggage and unwanted publicity surrounding him. 

 

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Seems that Arsenal have made substantial changes to the way they look at managing loans, and you can see this being the way that other top clubs will go.

It is interesting to read that clubs were required to "pitch" for the player, part of which presumably would be indicating how they would "look after him" while on loan. That being the case, it is a little strange that Leeds' track record in handling the three Chelsea loanees contrasts so markedly from our handling of Tammy, Kalas and Dasilva. I see that another poster commented that LJ flew "solo", but in the case of Tammy's loan, it was stated at the time that it was LJ's meeting with the player and his family that convinced him that we were the right place to come. 

In light of this it is hard to look past Emry's previous working relationship with Orta as being the clincher, although it is equally hard to escape the reality that Leeds' will probably be more successful than us, so giving the player more opportunities to shine, although it could equally be argued that Tammy's success in a struggling City team was the making of him!

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Emery seems like a bit of a dick. Why recall him from Augsburg in Jan when he’s already over there to sign?

Assuming whoscored is correct and this was at the end of the Jan window, he didn’t play a single minute for Arsenal in any competition after that. 

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26 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

It sounds like LJ, whilst impressing was ‘flying solo’ on the pitch and maybe MA was ,not surprisingly,  busy on other deals. If MA (our best closer of deals) wasn’t there then maybe that was a mistake on our part. If that was the case then I think we can be confident that next time he will be there for such a crucial deal. 

LJ flying solo was the clincher in convincing Tammy Abraham, and his family, that we were his best option.

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3 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

 

A few other points: 

- Leeds were said to have come into the frame at the last minute, and yet they scouted him 20 times? How does that add up then? 

- Why does everyone treat Bielsa like he's some sort of God? He hasn't won a lot in his career, usually resigns after about 1-2 seasons and bottled promotion last season. 

- If Arsenal's analysis was so thorough, how could they have missed Leeds' poor treatment of those Chelsea players? Then again, we've all witnessed Arsenal's misfiring on the pitch over the last 15 years. 

Leeds were doing succession planning in the event of losing Roofe.  That only happened late in the window.

Biesla is a respected coach.   It's all about the players development rather than winning things.  That's more of a consideration for an established pro on a perm move.

Yeah, an oversight on the Chelsea boys, but sound like they had reasons why the players didn't feature and these were accepted by Arsenal.  A message to EK that he isn't an automatic pick and needs to work hard too.  

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19 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Depends how much Leeds use him. The Chelsea boys got nowt and Bamford isn’t going to be saying ‘after you, old boy’. 

The article implies playing time was an important factor in any deal. He is a direct replacement for Roofe, who was a starter before he left for Anderlecht.

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Interesting read, real insight there.

Reckon Bielsa and Orta relationship the key factor. Indeed we'll see it more and more- I remember saying it before and a good example of this might be Scott Carson to Man City on loan- one of Derby's higher earners, no loan fee but helps to free up the wage budget!

They could've approached any English player if they wanted to top up home grown quota. Rooney will get the media hype but a very astute appointment for them from a contact POV.

  • Cocu worked with Brands at PSV a nice Everton link there- Probably helped them get Dowell ahead of Huddersfield?
  • Cocu worked with Pep at Barcelona- dare say some of the Man City ex Barcelona hierarchy might know him too- could help with loans and indeed perhaps the Carson deal?
  • Cocu was quite a successful player at Barcelona- another market to tap into?
  • Quite a successful Dutch player too- young Dutch players will want to play with him.
  • So too will PSV players given the Dutch club he most associated with as player and manager either those who know of him or who have worked with him but are now elsewhere.

Dare say there's one or two other categories or links I have forgot too?

Nketiah should get good game time at Leeds and will have plenty of chances to score given their pressing, possession game IMO.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 minute ago, Orbital said:

The article implies playing time was an important factor in any deal. He is a direct replacement for Roofe, who was a starter before he left for Anderlecht.

Playing time was one area LEEDS would not have outscored us on, ironically. 

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1 hour ago, swanker said:

When all’s said and done, It’s not what you know it’s who you know. Arsenal’s manager and the guy from Leeds have known each other for a long time. You can’t tell me that didn’t effect the outcome in some way. 

I still hope it doesn’t go well for the lad at Leeds because of the way we were messed around. 

This. The article is a load of hot air imo. 

We had the deal done, had worked meticulously all summer to tick all of Arsenal’s boxes, then at the last minute, Arsenal's mate from Leeds piped up and they did the dirty on us. 

And what was with Eddies “shhh” celebration about after is goal against Salford. SALFORD FFS! Jumped up little *****!  

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Anyone reading that article will realise the club did everything it could to make this transfer happen. The only potential mistake was to overly focus on just one target.

Be nice to see Afobe re-ignite his Championship career here. After an unhappy time at Stoke, he may not have the Big Time Charley attitude that comes with the "next big thing" type of players.

Edited by Red-Robbo
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55 minutes ago, erndogz said:

Where's the Bristol City writer for The Athletic? They seem to be chucking big money at journalists. Good article that, not sure the full price sub is worth it.

They're actively trying to put local newspapers out of business. I would encourage anyone who finds an article worth reading on there to share it on here so that people don't have to give them any money for subscriptions. 

Edited by Northern Red
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I dare say watching us against Leeds played a big factor to, being so fresh in the mind.

If I was a player of his skill, I wouldn't have witnessed what I was being sold from us, on that performance.

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A surprising number of posters are continuing to believe the rumours that we were “at the head of the queue” and suddenly gazumped at the end. This makes both Arsenal and Leeds look bad, which is perhaps what they prefer - that we were the good guys and were robbed.

I see no reason not to believe the article and the other stories that Arsenal decided very late on to loan NE out.

On that basis, BCFC planned well and expressed an early interest. However, the decision was left late and based on presentations and detailed analysis of the options. Regardless of Orta, and pitching quite late, Leeds were always strong and likely to win that competition.

So, none of the clubs did anything dishonourable and City fell a bit short despite a good effort. Conspiracy theorists please note.

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52 minutes ago, Orbital said:

Love your optimism, Reggie, but I’ll wager a tenner that Nketia is higher in the scoring charts at the end of the season. Having said that, I like Afobe and, given good service,  he could well be a 15-20 goal man by the end of the season - if we give him the service and he gets his mojo back.

We'll see, but I expect a fully focussed Afobe to be scoring goals and also being a leader off the pitch too. Very experienced given he's still relatively young-ish. 

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42 minutes ago, RedSkin said:

Pure conjecture on your part.

My reading of it is all competing clubs had met the financial terms of the loan, and this was a straight footballing conversation.  No need for MA to attend.

As Major said, we've come a long way and I suspect the personal relationship sealed it for Leeds.

Yes purely conjecture and no disrespect intended to LJ but knowing how we analyse everything with the finest of details it will not have gone unnoticed if Leeds pitch was conducted by a ‘suit’ maybe their equivalent of MA. 

Ar the end of the day even with MA it may well  have come down to the ‘big club’ syndrome as others have said. However it is good to know the sort of respect we now have in the football world and how close we came. In my opinion Afobe may just turn out to be a better option, with a chance to buy if it works out.

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3 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

it will not have gone unnoticed if Leeds pitch was conducted by a ‘suit’ maybe their equivalent of MA. 

We know who conducted it for Leeds, it was Orta.   It was the person in the room and fact that Biesla and Orta have a personal relationship that clinched it in my mind, not what they were wearing.

Personally, from Arsenal's perspective if we sent along MA to a football conversation I'd question our judgement.  Even as support the LJ.  I'd just want to hear LJ.

Think the club did all they could in this instance and prefer to congratulate them on their efforts to go so close.

Only Salford I know, but the kids looks absolute class.  Great we'll at least see him play rather than have him rattle round in Arsenal's reserves.

Also very pleased with Afobe based on his performance at Birmingham.

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Dont want to beat the same drum again, but the club must have known they were in a 3 way shooting match for the player, and would have known the leeds connection to emery, yet still persevered with it, to the detriment of looking at other strikers, then had to struggle in the last hours of the window to get afobe in, despite having a multi million pound warchest from the webster sale. 

Its a harsh lesson, but i hope we learn from this in the future

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1 minute ago, Simon bristol said:

Dont want to beat the same drum again, but the club must have known they were in a 3 way shooting match for the player, and would have known the leeds connection to emery, yet still persevered with it, to the detriment of looking at other strikers, then had to struggle in the last hours of the window to get afobe in, despite having a multi million pound warchest from the webster sale. 

Its a harsh lesson, but i hope we learn from this in the future

How was it to the detriment of looking at other strikers?  Do you think the whole recruitment team just stared at the phone for a week? They would have been assuming the worst on this and following other leads 

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5 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Dont want to beat the same drum again, but the club must have known they were in a 3 way shooting match for the player, and would have known the leeds connection to emery, yet still persevered with it, to the detriment of looking at other strikers, then had to struggle in the last hours of the window to get afobe in, despite having a multi million pound warchest from the webster sale. 

Its a harsh lesson, but i hope we learn from this in the future

Only with less than a week of the window left did Leeds become interested due to the sale of Roofe. Up until then I still believe he was heading our way, despite the interest from Fortuna.

As for how big a part the pitch played in securing Nketiah's services, let's see how much he plays at Leeds. Still think he would get more game time here this season than at Leeds.

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4 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Dont want to beat the same drum again, but the club must have known they were in a 3 way shooting match for the player, and would have known the leeds connection to emery, yet still persevered with it, to the detriment of looking at other strikers, then had to struggle in the last hours of the window to get afobe in, despite having a multi million pound warchest from the webster sale. 

Its a harsh lesson, but i hope we learn from this in the future

That assumes that Afobe was a last minute panic buy. It’s more likely that he was on a Plan B list that had been in place for weeks. Just because it was a surprise to us, doesn’t mean he wasn’t high on the list of affordable options all along.

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7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Only with less than a week of the window left did Leeds become interested due to the sale of Roofe. Up until then I still believe he was heading our way, despite the interest from Fortuna.

As for how big a part the pitch played in securing Nketiah's services, let's see how much he plays at Leeds. Still think he would get more game time here this season than at Leeds.

Even if they did come in late after the Roofe move, they had scouted him 20 odd times, 12 times in the past season, according to that article.

Also they would have had to work overtime to produce a detailed presentation in such a short time. So imo would have had lots of details to hand before that presentation.

I'm only guessing...but because of the personal relationship, they were given a heads up when Emery eventually made the decision to let him go out on loan.

All coinciding with the Roofe move.

Like you say...it will be interesting to see how much game time he gets.

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37 minutes ago, spudski said:

I dare say watching us against Leeds played a big factor to, being so fresh in the mind.

If I was a player of his skill, I wouldn't have witnessed what I was being sold from us, on that performance.

I am surprised this has not been mentioned more, Leeds outplaying us in the opening game and also looking sharper, fitter and more organised in the process, will have been a major factor in the players decision. He will have certainly watched that game and made up his mind after it.

Having said that, I am more then happy with Afobe and if he looks sharp and fit and I think he could easily out score Nketiah over the season.

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6 minutes ago, brady bunch said:

I am surprised this has not been mentioned more, Leeds outplaying us in the opening game and also looking sharper, fitter and more organised in the process, will have been a major factor in the players decision. He will have certainly watched that game and made up his mind after it.

Having said that, I am more then happy with Afobe and if he looks sharp and fit and I think he could easily out score Nketiah over the season.

I’d be gobsmacked (but delighted) if that happens. Sadly Leeds have got by orders of magnitude the better player IMO and in that team he’ll have so many good chances. 

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Why have you made the text so big? I don't mind the article being long but reading that is super uncomfortable. 

Edited by TBW
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