England v Kosovo Match Thread

[Wanderingred]

5 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

our group is the dross of Europe.

A little harsh. Montenegro are a decent little side for the size of their country and have made the playoffs a couple of times.. Czech aren't the team they once were but still have some good players, and Kosovo have achieved some good results so far, and aren't one of Europes worst teams. Bulgaria are shocking though, I'll give you that.

I don't understand all the negativity. It wasn't so long ago we were playing dreadful football in our group stage and only scoring once or twice against these kind of sides. There's clearly been a huge improvement and we are hammering these poor sides. Results against Spain and Croatia suggest we can turn it on against the top teams as well.

[wendyredredrobin]

51 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

I don't understand all the negativity.

Our defence was a joke for their first goal, we missed a penalty and we lost the 2nd half 2-0. It was Kosovo, not Brazil or Argentina. Some of the players out there looked like they had been out on the piss.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Our defence was a joke for their first goal, we missed a penalty and we lost the 2nd half 2-0. It was Kosovo, not Brazil or Argentina. Some of the players out there looked like they had been out on the piss.

Things to work on. By the summer I expect to have a much stronger side including defence if Gomez can stay fit. And there's others too better than Keane. Not at all worried when we have that forward line, the mistakes were just basic mistakes.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Considering venables had the likes of Neville, Ince, Gazza, Shearer, Sheringham and Fowler to work with, whilst hoddle had some similar players with the likes of Beckham, Scholes and Ferdinand. Neither manages to get us to where Southgate did last year however...

Last year we had the easiest path we’ve ever had -, and are ever likely to have

both far better coaches 

And Bobby Robson also got us to a WC semi final and was still behind Venables and Hoddle as a coach 

[And Its Smith]

7 hours ago, bris red said:

Can i have a few drags of whatever it is your smoking please? Christ.

Miles away from winning a tournament IMO. We won’t be gifted such an easy run next summer as we were last. Quarter-finals at BEST for this team. Excellent going foward at times but woeful at the back. Cant look past France again for the Euro’s next summer to be honest.

Loads of people must be smoking the same thing then as many seem to think Henderson is a superb player. Jurgen Klopp is one of them. Wonder if he is smoking anything 

[Robbored]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

How do you know that? Do tell ...

 

Via TV or radio interviews with a number of former pro footballers who played under him.

[JBFC II]

51 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Last year we had the easiest path we’ve ever had -, and are ever likely to have

both far better coaches 

And Bobby Robson also got us to a WC semi final and was still behind Venables and Hoddle as a coach 

Still go there though, the draw is pretty irrelevant.

If they were far better coaches, with the quality of players they had at their disposal, much better than what Southgate has, they’d have surely got to at least the same stage?

[BobBobSuperBob]

30 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Still go there though, the draw is pretty irrelevant.

If they were far better coaches, with the quality of players they had at their disposal, much better than what Southgate has, they’d have surely got to at least the same stage?

So your opponents , and their quality , you meet on your route is irrelevant is it ?

‘ Interesting ‘ view  ........

You are well offay  with Hoddle & Venables I assume ?

[Robbored]

47 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Still go there though, the draw is pretty irrelevant.

If they were far better coaches, with the quality of players they had at their disposal, much better than what Southgate has, they’d have surely got to at least the same stage?

It’s the quality of players that Southgate lacks when compared to the likes of ‘spiritual’ Glen Hoddle and the ‘I’m not that interested’ Venables 

Currently England don’t have the classy defenders or midfielders that previous England managers have had.

[JBFC II]

26 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So your opponents , and their quality , you meet on your route is irrelevant is it ?

‘ Interesting ‘ view  ........

You are well offay  with Hoddle & Venables I assume ?

It is, at the end of the day people aren’t going to look back at finishing 4th in last years World Cup and claim that it doesn’t count as we didn’t play any top sides till the semis...

And I presume you mean au fait in your last point. In which case I would say I have a decent idea about their successes and I’d say a euros semi final and a World Cup last 16 don’t compare to a World Cup semi final, especially when considering the squads we had in each tournament 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

11 hours ago, Midred said:

Watching some of our english superstars "performing" it doesn't make me feel so bad about some of city's performances!

Yes and on less than a quarter of their wages!

[Unan]

Imagine if Yugoslavia were still a team

[BobBobSuperBob]

29 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

It is, at the end of the day people aren’t going to look back at finishing 4th in last years World Cup and claim that it doesn’t count as we didn’t play any top sides till the semis...

And I presume you mean au fait in your last point. In which case I would say I have a decent idea about their successes and I’d say a euros semi final and a World Cup last 16 don’t compare to a World Cup semi final, especially when considering the squads we had in each tournament 

Southgate has done some good things and done a decent job , and he may improve tactically , but Venables and Hoddle as coaches were light years ahead of anyone we’ve had 

Im not referring to their Wiki page of tournament records -  I saw virtually every game of their reigns  live

I assume you have actually seen very little of their games but to base their ability as coaches on where they got in a tournament is nonsense

In your judgement by tournament succes you might wish to bear in mind that Hoddle went out of the World Cup to an Argentina side way above anything we played in Russia and Venable went out on penalties to Germany but I guess you knew about their sides too

[Alex_BCFC]

5 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

It was Kosovo, not Brazil or Argentina. Some of the players out there looked like they had been out on the piss.

Kosovo are no mugs - they will have a decent FIFA ranking at some point. Not lost in 15 until last night and looked very capable (although 2 goals were gifted to them).

And Argentina are shite these days - Kosovo would give them a very good game I reckon.

[phantom]

I read something interesting this morning (assume that it is correct), that since Phil Jones made his senior England debut in 2011, only 2 other centre-halves have emerged to gain more than 10 England caps.

John Stones and Harry Maguire.

So only 2 "good" centre halves in 8 years

[Coppello]

5 minutes ago, Unan said:

Imagine if Yugoslavia were still a team

I was talking about this recently. Yugoslavia was made up of the following nations:

- Croatia (Modric, Rakitic, Perisic, Kovacic, Lovren)

- Bosnia & Herzegovina (Dzeko and Pjanic)

- Serbia (Kolarov, Milivojevic, Milinkovic-Savic, Mitrovic)

- Slovenia (Oblak)

- North Macedonia and Kosovo could also provide some talent. I believe Xhaka and Shaqiri were born in Kosovo too. 

That's a side that could easily win the Euros, although selecting the midfield would cause a headache! 

 

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, phantom said:

I read something interesting this morning (assume that it is correct), that since Phil Jones made his senior England debut in 2011, only 2 other centre-halves have emerged to gain more than 10 England caps.

John Stones and Harry Maguire.

So only 2 "good" centre halves in 8 years

I hadn’t realised that Phantom but that would be a significant factor the current shaky defence.

England don’t have the likes of Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes any longer and the midfield is another weak area that Southgate simply doesn’t  have the quality available.

It doesn’t make much difference how good a coach the manager is if they don’t have quality players. You can’t make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

[The Nest Egg]

Obviously a worry defensively, but it was such a fun game to watch and thankfully a far cry from scrappy 1-0 wins against Slovenia with nothing but a Wayne Rooney penalty separating both sides

[JBFC II]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Southgate has done some good things and done a decent job , and he may improve tactically , but Venables and Hoddle as coaches were light years ahead of anyone we’ve had 

Im not referring to their Wiki page of tournament records -  I saw virtually every game of their reigns  live

I assume you have actually seen very little of their games but to base their ability as coaches on where they got in a tournament is nonsense

In your judgement by tournament succes you might wish to bear in mind that Hoddle went out of the World Cup to an Argentina side way above anything we played in Russia and Venable went out on penalties to Germany but I guess you knew about their sides too

As manager of your country, especially a country with as long a history as England, the only thing you will be based on is results. 

You can play as good football as you like, beat lesser nations convincingly, but if you fail to get to the latter stages of a World Cup, unlike Southgate, then your reign can’t be seen as as big a success as his. Noddles finished 2nd in a group including Romania, Colombia and Tunisia. Yes, Romania were a better side then than they are now, but for an England side including the likes of Shearer, Beckham, Owen, Ferdinand, Scholes, Adams, Campbell, Sheringham, Ince and Mcmanaman. All of whom are better than what we have in their respective positions currently, is poor. And so therefore he took on a good Argentina side too early in the tournament and got knocked out. 

The euro 96 side were similar to ours, in that despite a brilliant win over the Netherlands they didn’t play anyone of note until the semi final, when they went out. But again, that was a side including Shearer, Gascoigne, Neville, Ince, Pearce, Sheringham, McManaman, Campbell, Adams etc. A much better side than the one Southgate has in every department. And yet, when they came up against a decent side in Germany they got knocked out, in our home tournament?

Maybe they were both better coaches than Southgate, I wasn’t around when they were at their peak, but their records don’t match his and that’s why I’d argue he’s done a better job as England manager. Especially considering the resources at his disposal in comparison

[Wanderingred]

1 hour ago, Newquay-Red said:

Obviously a worry defensively, but it was such a fun game to watch and thankfully a far cry from scrappy 1-0 wins against Slovenia with nothing but a Wayne Rooney penalty separating both sides

My point exactly. We've improved a lot. People have been crying out for an entertaining, attacking England side. We've now got one and it's still not good enough... 

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

Via TV or radio interviews with a number of former pro footballers who played under him.

Don’t wanna labour the point but you posted “Most players he (Hoddle) managed at club level disliked him with a vengeance” - a few tv and radio interviews wouldn’t constitute ‘most’ and what did these players actually say during the interviews? Find it hard to believe they all voluntarily chipped in with “I hate Hoddle with a vengeance”...

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

My point exactly. We've improved a lot. People have been crying out for an entertaining, attacking England side. We've now got one and it's still not good enough... 

Clearly we have improvements to make defensively but how often do you see three individual errors as bad as we made last night. They didn’t play through us, we literally gave them three goals, two of them giving the ball away in defensive areas. Rice in particular will learn from that.

What we have got is a team that is lethal on the break with a top drawer forward line, not just against Kosovo either because we did the same to Spain not that long ago and they aren’t too shabby.

I understand the sentiment that we have to  play better than last night when it counts but with a better balance in midfield and cutting out basic errors we have a bloody decent side. Negativity is a national sport in this country.

We scored five, hit the woodwork, missed a penner and the keeper made a great save from Rashford and people say we played “like we were on the piss”.....and people moan that the rest of the world think we are arrogant!!!!!

[Robbored]

5 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Don’t wanna labour the point but you posted “Most players he (Hoddle) managed at club level disliked him with a vengeance” - a few tv and radio interviews wouldn’t constitute ‘most’ and what did these players actually say during the interviews? Find it hard to believe they all voluntarily chipped in with “I hate Hoddle with a vengeance”...

The players interviewed had all played under Hoddle and the independent views they expressed reflected  the feeling amongst the different the clubs squads - including Swindon Town.