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REDOXO

Josh Brownhill signs for Burnley; CONFIRMED

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4 minutes ago, Taunton_BCFC said:

Is he out of contract in the summer? If so then 6-7 million is good business 

Think he signed a new one a while back until 2021 from what i remember 

Edited by ben91tucker
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33 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Andy Cole allover again..... 

No it isn't. Even if its 6 million its now normal for us to put a sell on clause in any outgoing transfer deal

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Brownhill would score plenty more if he played in a midfield 3 or wide right of a 4.

He doesn't score as many as he would because most of his game time has been in a 2 in a 442. 

It doesn't allow him to get in the box much. To be a goalscoring midfielder, you have to have licence to get in the box. Can't expect him to score loads from 30 yards!

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I would be very disappointed to lose Josh Brownhill in January for £6m regardless of who we bring in. He's been an integral part of our team for several years and has been a stand-in captain for most of the season. Losing him now would be a very poor decision in my opinion and it will take a period for any replacement (if any) to get up to speed. I wouldn't want to deny him the opportunity to move to the Premier League (particularly one closer to his family roots) but I feel its something that should be revisited in the summer unless we receive an offer we can't reject. If the rumoured £6m is true, we can live without that money. 

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18 minutes ago, RedDave said:

He scores five per season. Wouldn’t class that as goalscoring midfielder myself 

Almost scored this season as many MT did for us

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Spot on @Coppello

Seems a bad footballing and possibly a bad business decision to sell an important player such as him in January.

Goals, decent technically, can play central, wide right, deeper or higher up- higher up central or right my preference but he's quite good.

24, equalled his record League goals in a season already, albeit unsur he's scored for a while.

Let's not forget that Preston have a sell on clause too or so I read- if anyone knows more, happy to be corrected, but even if it is for the money, we won't see all of that.

Point off the playoffs, chance the season could yet turn into an upward trajectory...£6-7m in January for Brownhill would be deeply disappointing.

21 minutes ago, RedDave said:

He scores five per season. Wouldn’t class that as goalscoring midfielder myself 

Still room for growth, already hit his 5- between 5-10 as he develops could be more accurate.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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2 minutes ago, Coppello said:

I would be very disappointed to lose Josh Brownhill in January for £6m regardless of who we bring in. He's been an integral part of our team for several years and has been a stand-in captain for most of the season. Losing him now would be a very poor decision in my opinion and it will take a period for any replacement (if any) to get up to speed. I wouldn't want to deny him the opportunity to move to the Premier League (particularly one closer to his family roots) but I feel its something that should be revisited in the summer unless we receive an offer we can't reject. If the rumoured £6m is true, we can live without that money. 

It'll be sad but I think we have a squad that's replaceable providing we get sensible money in return. I also think JB really wants the move, why wouldn't he? 

I remember thinking when Flint went we were fudged, but Webster came along.  

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54 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Palmer could be that player. 
 

If we sell JB then KP can be accommodated in the heart of midfield.

 

Some similarities, but different types of players, unsure I'd play Palmer in a 3 as he's a) Best higher up the pitch and b) Worse defensively than Brownhill. Not that defence is Brownhill's strong point.

One thing that I like about Brownhill is that IF utilised correctly, team tweaked a bit, he could play central- in attacking phases, 4-2-3-1 or more, in midfield phases he filters back into 4-3-3...Palmer doesn't have this.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some similarities, but different types of players, unsure I'd play Palmer in a 3 as he's a) Best higher up the pitch and b) Worse defensively than Brownhill. Not that defence is Brownhill's strong point.

Yeah i'd be surprised if we told Palmer to think about anything defensively. 

He's a player that thinks forward and only forward 

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2 minutes ago, Sturny said:

It'll be sad but I think we have a squad that's replaceable providing we get sensible money in return. I also think JB really wants the move, why wouldn't he? 

I remember thinking when Flint went we were fudged, but Webster came along.  

Yeah and if you blinked, you would have missed him...

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1 minute ago, Lew-T said:

Yeah and if you blinked, you would have missed him...

True but just an example of plenty more fish in the sea 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Spot on @Coppello

Seems a bad footballing and possibly a bad business decision to sell an important player such as him in January.

Goals, decent technically, can play central, wide right, deeper or higher up- higher up central or right my preference but he's quite good.

24, equalled his record League goals in a season already, albeit unsur he's scored for a while.

Let's not forget that Preston have a sell on clause too or so I read- if anyone knows more, happy to be corrected, but even if it is for the money, we won't see all of that.

Point off the playoffs, chance the season could yet turn into an upward trajectory...£6-7m in January for Brownhill would be deeply disappointing.

Still room for growth, already hit his 5- between 5-10 as he develops could be more accurate.

We got Josh on a free didn't we? So surely no sell on clause.

That might be actually why we are not demanding more. If we had to pay sell on fee then maybe we ask for more.

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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We got Josh on a free didn't we? So surely no sell on clause.

That might be actually why we are not demanding more. If we had to pay sell on fee then maybe we ask for more.

So sell him cheap because there’s no sell on clause? I say get as much as we can especially from a premiership team. They’ve got money coming out their ears and they can pass a bit of it down to us! Starting bid 10 million all day long. 

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5 minutes ago, Sturny said:

It'll be sad but I think we have a squad that's replaceable providing we get sensible money in return. I also think JB really wants the move, why wouldn't he? 

I remember thinking when Flint went we were fudged, but Webster came along.  

I don't disagree about JB wanting the move and would be pleased for him if he got a move to the Premier League. I think it's just a massive risk for this season given that statistically, January signings are less likely to be successful and will also take a while to learn our system. Lee Johnson famously stated last season that he needed X number of training sessions to coach Kasey Palmer and get him up to scratch so I'd imagine that any new signing will be similar.

I do agree with you regarding the replacement coming from within the squad - meaning Morrell is likely to be recalled. For what it's worth, I've been really impressed with him during his loan spell at Lincoln and his games for Wales but it feels like we'd be weakening the squad for the business end of the season. 

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21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Brownhill would score plenty more if he played in a midfield 3 or wide right of a 4.

He doesn't score as many as he would because most of his game time has been in a 2 in a 442. 

It doesn't allow him to get in the box much. To be a goalscoring midfielder, you have to have licence to get in the box. Can't expect him to score loads from 30 yards!

 

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Spot on @Coppello

Seems a bad footballing and possibly a bad business decision to sell an important player such as him in January.

Goals, decent technically, can play central, wide right, deeper or higher up- higher up central or right my preference but he's quite good.

24, equalled his record League goals in a season already, albeit unsur he's scored for a while.

Let's not forget that Preston have a sell on clause too or so I read- if anyone knows more, happy to be corrected, but even if it is for the money, we won't see all of that.

Point off the playoffs, chance the season could yet turn into an upward trajectory...£6-7m in January for Brownhill would be deeply disappointing.

Still room for growth, already hit his 5- between 5-10 as he develops could be more accurate.

I think this emphasises @JonDolman's point, only 24 shots at goal is low for a central midfield player, his accuracy isn't great though.  On that point, our coaching team really need to get Eliasson to be a bit more selfish!! 

image.thumb.png.ea7f944ceae643414f73398f1433874e.png

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3 minutes ago, swanker said:

So sell him cheap because there’s no sell on clause? I say get as much as we can especially from a premiership team. They’ve got money coming out their ears and they can pass a bit of it down to us! Starting bid 10 million all day long. 

No but people in the past say prices have been so high because of sell on fees, and Josh doesn't have one.

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6 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Yeah and if you blinked, you would have missed him...

But that move highlights the reality of where we are at and the business model.

The other major factor is that any PL club, even one run prudently like Burnley, can offer a player multiples of his current salary - wasn't it rumoured that Webster went on to a contract at Brighton of x 4 what we were paying him?

That is  a scenario where it's going to be very difficult to hold on to a player when there is no way you can match or even get close to that type of money.

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4 minutes ago, Sturny said:

True but just an example of plenty more fish in the sea 

Of course.

But it’s just that cycle again of bringing players in, developing them into good players and then sell them on. 

Repeat.

I know that’s the way of the football world unfortunately but it always seems to be our players lately. Preston always manage to keep hold of Browne, Maguire, Johnson, Pearson etc. Arguably better than our players?

Eliasson is next in line.

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2 minutes ago, Coppello said:

I don't disagree about JB wanting the move and would be pleased for him if he got a move to the Premier League. I think it's just a massive risk for this season given that statistically, January signings are less likely to be successful and will also take a while to learn our system. Lee Johnson famously stated last season that he needed X number of training sessions to coach Kasey Palmer and get him up to scratch so I'd imagine that any new signing will be similar.

I do agree with you regarding the replacement coming from within the squad - meaning Morrell is likely to be recalled. For what it's worth, I've been really impressed with him during his loan spell at Lincoln and his games for Wales but it feels like we'd be weakening the squad for the business end of the season. 

He did say that but I take that with a huge pinch of salt - another example of Lee thinking he is a super coach with sophisticated patterns of play that take a while for a talented player to understand - really? It's not something I see every Saturday from my seat!

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2 minutes ago, Coppello said:

I don't disagree about JB wanting the move and would be pleased for him if he got a move to the Premier League. I think it's just a massive risk for this season given that statistically, January signings are less likely to be successful and will also take a while to learn our system. Lee Johnson famously stated last season that he needed X number of training sessions to coach Kasey Palmer and get him up to scratch so I'd imagine that any new signing will be similar.

I do agree with you regarding the replacement coming from within the squad - meaning Morrell is likely to be recalled. For what it's worth, I've been really impressed with him during his loan spell at Lincoln and his games for Wales but it feels like we'd be weakening the squad for the business end of the season. 

I agree, without doubt a weakening at a tough time. But for Bristol City? Maybe it's for the better overtime 👀

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Maybe get a midfielder in on loan so Morrell can continue getting games? Or recall Morrell?

Matty James may be a good one if we want a loan.

Can cover at centre back too, with Wright likely going that would mean he can do a 2nd role if needed.

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9 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Of course.

But it’s just that cycle again of bringing players in, developing them into good players and then sell them on. 

Repeat.

I know that’s the way of the football world unfortunately but it always seems to be our players lately. Preston always manage to keep hold of Browne, Maguire, Johnson, Pearson etc. Arguably better than our players?

Eliasson is next in line.

Not gonna lie this too also puzzles me. If I was a Preston player I'd be keen for a move to double my salary even if it was a sideways champ move. 

Players must really enjoy their time there or something 

Edited by Sturny

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Sorry if it has been mentioned before, but surely a fee that low would be making room for a player coming our way, whether it be a loan or permanent?

Edited by Whites

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£6m fee seems low to me, unless includes deal for them to loan us Vydra, while they pay his wages, too... 

MA has a record of getting good fees, so will be disappointed if we let Josh go for anything less than £8m if cash only deal.

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I’d take any fee mentioned With a pinch of salt,

we generally don’t announce that sort of things and I’d imagine any fee mentioned would be based on the length of his contract and any clauses it has

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13 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I’d take any fee mentioned With a pinch of salt,

 

£6m +   salt.jpg.8f45f692abdc6926bfc50aa5d8ad421a.jpg          Doesn't seem much of a deal!. Lucky for us  it's MA negotiating and not you Monkeh! :)

Edited by downendcity
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4 minutes ago, downendcity said:

£6m +   salt.jpg.8f45f692abdc6926bfc50aa5d8ad421a.jpg          Doesn't seem much of a deal!. Lucky for us  it's MA negotiating and not you Monkeh! :)

But once you have thrown some of the salt over your shoulder the fee will magically increase to 10 million.

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To me this shows a lack of ambition by the club again, if the club are genuinely looking to reach the promised land why sell off your best players (when LJ keeps telling us we don't need to)  LJ always says that JB is the driving force in midfield and he is always the 1st name on the team sheet makes no sense to me to get rid at the moment

If JB really wants to play in the Prem then why doesnt he knuckle down and try his hardest with us as we are so close to the play offs who know the outcome. If we do not make it then he can leave us at the end of the season.  Perhaps he is not confident in our team ?

There could be a scenario where we went up via the play offs and Burnley came down.

Edited by westonred
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22 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said:

But once you have thrown some of the salt over your shoulder the fee will magically increase to 10 million.

Have you been reading the minutes of the last Rovers board meeting?

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36 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said:

But once you have thrown some of the salt over your shoulder the fee will magically increase to 10 million.

Ah, the Matty Taylor effect!

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14 minutes ago, westonred said:

To me this shows a lack of ambition by the club again, if the club are genuinely looking to reach the promised land why sell off your best players (when LJ keeps telling us we don't need to)  LJ always says that JB is the driving force in midfield and he is always the 1st name on the team sheet makes no sense to me to get rid at the moment

If JB really wants to play in the Prem then why doesnt he knuckle down and try his hardest with us as we are so close to the play offs who know the outcome. If we do not make it then he can leave us at the end of the season.  Perhaps he is not confident in our team ?

There could be a scenario where we went up via the play offs and Burnley came down.

Lack of ambition doesn’t come into it,

its about balancing the books and trying to run the club in a sustainable manner,

like it or lump it, we have to sell to survive (meet ffp commitments)

we aren’t in a position to refuse reasonable offers for our players if they come from prem clubs or are of a stupid amount ala kodja 

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Alex Mowatt from Barnsley would be a good replacement. 3 goals and 7 assists this season. 18 months on his deal. 

Daniel Johnson/Browne would also be great replacements. 

I'd love Ben Pearson here, but unsure he's an actual replacement for Brownhill. 

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10 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Lack of ambition doesn’t come into it,

its about balancing the books and trying to run the club in a sustainable manner,

like it or lump it, we have to sell to survive (meet ffp commitments)

we aren’t in a position to refuse reasonable offers for our players if they come from prem clubs or are of a stupid amount ala kodja 

Well why are we told by LJ and MA constantly that we do not need to sell our players.  if we are ambitious then keep hold of our best players and really go for it

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

No but people in the past say prices have been so high because of sell on fees, and Josh doesn't have one.

I've read that there might have been one as part of the settlement. We signed him on a free but there will have been some settlement because of his age, offered contract etc.

Maybe @pnefcok or @Mortis could shed some light.

@Coppello also- is it possible for a player who has left on a tribunal/free or however it was, as he was a free but we surely had to settle in 2016 as he was under 24, to have a sell on clause?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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9 minutes ago, westonred said:

Well why are we told by LJ and MA constantly that we do not need to sell our players.  if we are ambitious then keep hold of our best players and really go for it

Quite useful to analyse the accounts, the FFP position and where things are or were at a point in time.

In a way, holding on to Flint, Bryan and Reid in Jan 2018 was going for it. The lack of sales that season and the loss was proof enough!

Our position now is better so the need to sell isn't there- whereas Jan 2018 and to an extent possibly, Jan 2019 we needed to be mindful.

Do we need to sell this January? No IMO. Less than 2 years ago with Flint, Bryan and Reid definitely!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Good luck to him if he goes. I'd like to think we get 8 figures for him but I'm not sure we should be pursuing a replacement. With our abundance of CMs including the two on loan we could use that money to strengthen elsewhere.

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Could be the release  figure written into his contract . We didn’t pay anything for JB so 7 million pound profit is decent. No fee to claw back and no selling on fee to nobody. Decent player but IMO a good deal all around. 

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2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Could be the release  figure written into his contract . We didn’t pay anything for JB so 7 million pound profit is decent. No fee to claw back and no selling on fee to nobody. Decent player but IMO a good deal all around. 

That's certain, is it?

Remember we got him on a free but he was under 24 and was offered a contract by Preston...

Definitely none put in at tribunal or however it works?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's certain, is it?

Remember we got him on a free but he was under 24 and was offered a contract...

Definitely none put in at tribunal or however it works?

Not certain to be honest. But don’t recall it be mentioned. But could easily be wrong 

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2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Not certain to be honest. But don’t recall it be mentioned. But could easily be wrong 

Yeah, it's unclear tbh.

I wouldn't have thought sell on clauses in that scenario but who knows. Certainly doesn't seem common.

At worst if there was one, it'd probably only be £1.5m on a £7m fee, we're talking upper end.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I've read that there might have been one as part of the settlement. We signed him on a free but there will have been some settlement because of his age, offered contract etc.

Maybe @pnefcok or @Mortis could shed some light.

@Coppello also- is it possible for a player who has left on a tribunal/free or however it was, as he was a free but we surely had to settle in 2016 as he was under 24, to have a sell on clause?

I'd be surprised if we agreed to a sell on clause. He was out of contract. It would have just been small fee if it had gone to tribunal anyway.

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As we understand it JB was offered a new contract by PNE and therefore received compensation. It is very likely that the tribunal setting that compensation also agreed a series of add-ons, typically appearance based and future sell-on based.

I very much suspect we will owe PNE 10-20% in that case.

If we didn’t go to tribunal and agreed separately with PNE, again I suspect a sell-on percentage was agreed.

It is a bit of a myth that there are no future add-ins if a player u24 leaves for free, having been offered a contract to stay. 

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I'd be surprised if we agreed to a sell on clause. He was out of contract. It would have just been small fee if it had gone to tribunal anyway.

Would a tribunal have the power to award a sell on fee for an out of contract player? 

Unlikely but not impossible IMO.

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