General Zod Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 The football at home on the whole has been dire under LJ. Year on year progression is great but football should be about passion and entertainment all I’m a afraid is lacking under LJ and his desire to set us up not to lose at home. Every year it’s the same, average football and season destroying bad runs. The guy clearly doesn’t know how to change, he has this unjustified confidence in his own ability with nothing to back it up. Going to home games has become habit and a good chance to meet up with friends first and foremost rather than any anticipation about what we will see on the pitch. It really is time to be brave and make a change. He’s taken us as far as he can. In any of his other businesses i bet SL would not put up with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 29 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said: A compelling argument. We are better away from home, a portion of that sits with the fans. Away fans are very good and can carry the team at times. Home fans are toxic. You only had to look at the reaction of the players yesterday when the Eliasson sub got booed. They were shitting themselves. Complete hyperbole. If you think a few boos and a bit of shouting yesterday was ‘toxic’ then with the greatest respect you can’t have watched much football. AG is a bed of roses in comparison to many grounds when things are going wrong on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 It does not make any difference what players or formation we played, as when we lose its very easy with hindsight to say we should have played this player or that player. You only have to look at the pre-match threads with the number of different selections and formations people think we should play, although when we win they then don't come out and say I am such a **** I said we should play this setup and I was wrong! Should you stick with a winning side, should you counter an oppositions threat, should you make changes to a losing side, should you drop a player whos form has dropped, all arguments are subjective and only wrong when you lose, but does not mean you would have won if you did something different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Badger08 said: This. Aston Villa were 13th in March last year. Just let that sit for a while. Very good point. Last year Villa changed their manager when not in the worst position in the world and promotion followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said: Very good point. Last year Villa changed their manager when not in the worst position in the world and promotion followed. Changed their manager in October- Smith led them to 13th, then they hit a late surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Changed their manager in October- Smith led them to 13th, then they hit a late surge. Took a little time to implement his ideas. Whichever way you look at it, Villa took a gamble and it paid off. Some people seem too worried about what may happen if LJ were to leave rather than be excited where a new manager could take us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 13 hours ago, spudski said: The reality is...WBA and Leeds are a cut above everyone in this league. After that, every team is pretty much the same ability. It's a mental league. Brentford sit third, yet they've lost more games than us, and if we had beaten them today, been above them. 14th to 3rd is just two wins difference. It's so close, the league table will change weekly dramatically. You've only got to watch and see results of different games every week to see how unpredictable it is. Literally, anyone can beat anyone. Yes another frustrating day...but it is for pretty much every team. Look at Fulham and others... The game was lost on a sending off and from two individual mistakes. Fans can say LJ bought these players, but Williams, Kalas and Hunt have been very good in general, so I'm not sure how you can blame him. For me...if there was ever to be a change of coach, it should be planned, not knee jerk and done end of season. I still think we'll end up anywhere between mid table to play off position. And if play off position and mid table is a couple wins difference over a season, would it be fair? Bottom half and lucky to avoid relegation then I'd definitely reconsider. Just judging everything with a level head and looking at every team, result and performance in this league. The one thing I did admire today, was Brentford. How they recruit and play...a lot less budget and they play with flair and so entertaining to watch. When LJ says they have such quality...you have to stop and ask yourself how they recruit and develop such quality with so little revenue. It's far more than moneyball...and the one thing they do and have done with different managers, is play with a distinct 'Identity'. Something I personally admire. What you have stated there, highlights how pathetic we are as a club. A suburb of London, one of the tattiest and most unexciting areas of the Metropolis. Attendances which have always been way below ours, throughout my lifetime. Yet, they are a model for us to copy in the way that they recruit talent, nurture it, improve it and sell for good prices. For the last three years, every time they have come to the Gate, we have seen a well organised team, that have generally been better than us by some decent margin. They have changed manager several times since we came up to the Championship, so it is not one single person who has moulded their playing squad. And at City? Here we go again on another of Johnson's miserable runs. We have no recognised pattern of play except that we know it will be boring, unentertaining at home, with minimal attempts on goal a routine event rather than the occasional one off. Only two points off a play off spot at present but does anyone really believe that we will get the consistency needed to finish in the top six? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said: Took a little time to implement his ideas. Whichever way you look at it, Villa took a gamble and it paid off. Some people seem too worried about what may happen if LJ were to leave rather than be excited where a new manager could take us. Form tracker shows ups, downs, choppy- then late surge. Perhaps it's ideas too as you say. They also totally smashed FFP rules up to March or May- should've been hauled up sooner. Had they been, no Mings, no promotion? @cidered abroad They seem better defensively and structurally even under Frank as opposed to Smith IMO. On your point about Brentford, as of right now and looking at the table- 21 clubs could be saying the same! However they have a great model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 42 minutes ago, lenred said: Complete hyperbole. If you think a few boos and a bit of shouting yesterday was ‘toxic’ then with the greatest respect you can’t have watched much football. AG is a bed of roses in comparison to many grounds when things are going wrong on the pitch. Very easy ride for players and coaching staff I reckon, and that's maybe part of the the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 37 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: What you have stated there, highlights how pathetic we are as a club. A suburb of London, one of the tattiest and most unexciting areas of the Metropolis. Attendances which have always been way below ours, throughout my lifetime. Yet, they are a model for us to copy in the way that they recruit talent, nurture it, improve it and sell for good prices. For the last three years, every time they have come to the Gate, we have seen a well organised team, that have generally been better than us by some decent margin. They have changed manager several times since we came up to the Championship, so it is not one single person who has moulded their playing squad. And at City? Here we go again on another of Johnson's miserable runs. We have no recognised pattern of play except that we know it will be boring, unentertaining at home, with minimal attempts on goal a routine event rather than the occasional one off. Only two points off a play off spot at present but does anyone really believe that we will get the consistency needed to finish in the top six? I wouldn't say we are pathetic...I would say we've become exactly what the majority of teams are like in this division. We fell into the trap of looking at others and trying to match them in every department. The majority of teams in this league, play turgid, don't lose football. They set up that way and employ tactics not to lose. It's only a few every season that either Excell through quality players or through a system they've stuck too. WBA this year, and Leeds and Brentford through a system they believe and stick with. In the recent past Huddersfield and Norwich did similar in style and system. We are now a Championship side that is like the majority. Full of players that individually tick boxes that are considered necessary to improve the stats. We are a team of individuals that have strengths and weaknesses, but they don't gell as a team or unit. Each player doing his own thing with no offensive structure. To watch, it looks made up and muddled. No cohesion, little understanding of movement. It's like they've never trained together. Defensively organised, it's better...but offensively, it's make it up as we go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 12 hours ago, bcfc01 said: 28 man squad. Using just one position as an example I bet they don’t have SIX professional Goalkeepers in their books...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: Using just one position as an example I bet they don’t have SIX professional Goalkeepers in their books...... They have three first team keepers (same as us). I would think they have another 2 or 3 outside of the 28 first team squad members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, bcfc01 said: They have three first team keepers (same as us). I would think they have another 2 or 3 outside of the 28 first team squad members. They have four in total. It’s simple maths that their outlay counting towards FFP cannot be as large as ours. They do things more efficiently than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Numero Uno said: They have four in total. Fair enough.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, GTFABM said: Can’t agree with you here. Ashton Gate is very quiet i admit but the grumbles of discontent start very quickly with a few miss placed passes. Not sure how much it actually affects the players mind you but it definatly happens. An example. Half time on Saturday - we'd been utterly hopeless and had already thrown the game away. Coming off the pitch the boos were.... almost inaudible. We are a pretty dispassionate lot. I'm not saying they should be booed, just that compared to other clubs we are like a WI meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said: An example. Half time on Saturday - we'd been utterly hopeless and had already thrown the game away. Coming off the pitch the boos were.... almost inaudible. We are a pretty dispassionate lot. I'm not saying they should be booed, just that compared to other clubs we are like a WI meeting. Which game was this then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, BCFC Grim said: Took a little time to implement his ideas. Whichever way you look at it, Villa took a gamble and it paid off. Some people seem too worried about what may happen if LJ were to leave rather than be excited where a new manager could take us. Worried largely on the basis of who might replace him. We all know what type of coach SL has always favoured. When LJ goes I would be more surprised if a top quality, experienced Championship coach was bought in than a promotion for McAllister and Holden with someone like Skuse bought in to make up the three. I just cannot see SL bringing in someone like Bielsa or Hughton, which would generate the excitement and add momentum and growth to the club . I would love to be proved wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, CotswoldRed said: An example. Half time on Saturday - we'd been utterly hopeless and had already thrown the game away. Coming off the pitch the boos were.... almost inaudible. We are a pretty dispassionate lot. I'm not saying they should be booed, just that compared to other clubs we are like a WI meeting. How many left yesterday at half time and well before full time? - empty seats say a hell of a lot more than booing, problem is those that left paid to get in, so it does not hurt the club other than the morale of the players and in turn the player’s feelings for the staff. The very vocal protest over the substitution will have been well noted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, dave36 said: How many left yesterday at half time and well before full time? - empty seats say a hell of a lot more than booing, problem is those that left paid to get in, so it does not hurt the club other than the morale of the players and in turn the player’s feelings for the staff. The very vocal protest over the substitution will have been well noted! The absence of a SC holder doesn't mean anything in terms of revenue for THAT seat of course. However, the absence of a punter may well have an marked effect on matchday revenue (drinks food merchandise) and if the casual punter decides to stay in the pub thats an unplanned whammy. If we start getting 13-14,000 actually in the ground on a regular basis, even Mr Lansdown needs to accept that billionaires in the finance sector can get football related decisions wrong more than once. He will I think back his man to keep us up, will ignore the boos even if they become personally embarassing, and will enthusiastically back the "we go again" bollocks in August . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 33 minutes ago, dave36 said: How many left yesterday at half time and well before full time? - empty seats say a hell of a lot more than booing, problem is those that left paid to get in, so it does not hurt the club other than the morale of the players and in turn the player’s feelings for the staff. The very vocal protest over the substitution will have been well noted! It will only be noted if we aren’t shifting season tickets in February/March whenever it is......and when I say not shifting I mean thousands down not hundreds. They don’t understand any other language.......and even then the owner can still do as he pleases and sod the fans. Thats the rub of having a guy in charge who covers all the losses himself. His money, his club, his decisions. Take it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 12 hours ago, NickJ said: Plus a similar amount on players that didn’t make the starting 11 Current squad @£45m, the dwarf's a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 On 02/01/2020 at 00:40, Mr Popodopolous said: I'd be surprised if Brentford and us have a similar wage bill. Would be interesting to see where they recruit from too. Which clubs, which Leagues. Would being on the edge of London add to their attraction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 12 hours ago, northsomersetred said: Current squad @£45m, the dwarf's a joke Could you post comparisons of other Championship club squad costs? Helps with context, helps with credibility. Look forward to your input... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Haven't checked my barometer but the shipping forecast for Lundy today reads: Westerly rapidly veering South, 4 declining 11 or worse; Very rough, occasionally high; Showers; Visibility Poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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