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luke Ayling.


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13 minutes ago, Olé said:

Absolutely this. I was going mad during the game counting out the number of times a City player was pulled back and screaming at the ref to get a card out. You could see it every time we ever looked like breaking. It wasn't ever going to stop unless the ref did something about it. He wasn't a poor ref or in any way inconsistent or one-sided, he was just utterly soft and gamed by Leeds all day long. Last season Brownhill got sent off at Elland Road for a booking from a tactical foul. So if the ref has balls it does get punished.

In recent seasons we've got excited about City supposedly learning the dark arts, but we're not even close. Leeds are the masters. How these same players that employed tactical fouls for 60 minutes, could then get away with WINNING tactical fouls (read: flinging themselves to the ground - as stated above, they even name this after Luke Ayling), just shows how poorly managed the game was by the ref. I found the whole thing emotionally exhausting watching them play him all day long, you knew they'd get away with it.

We are so bad at tactical fouls. The second goal derby scored against us a great example. Three of our midfield could have taken a yellow..... instead they just let him waltz through. So frustrating.

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9 hours ago, Harry said:

Wasn’t just the penalty. Leeds made numerous ‘tactical’ fouls all game. 
Whilst we didn’t get many opportunities to attack, every time we did finally get a semblance of a break and we had someone go past a Leeds player, he was brought down. 
Every time. 
Ref only booked 1 of their players for this. There were about 10 similar fouls that halted any attack we made. 
Clever by Leeds. Poor by the ref. 

Exactly this. Their high press game relies on them getting numbers forward fast. It's not always precise, accurate, and it's a kind of percentage football that requires bodies in and around the box and the likelihood that something will eventually fall through one of them. As it did for their goal. 

Bit of course the risk that goes with that is getting caught on the break, and the tactic of stopping that by any means, shirt pulling, tripping, preferably while still in the Leeds half to reduce the risk of a booking, seems like a fundamental part of their game. 

Edited by italian dave
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7 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Unless he feels he was treated badly by Johnson. We don't know the full story of Cheltenham. I do prefer to remain neutral as a result. 

Listening to the match on Talksport it was interesting that when there was an injury and an impromptu team talk , Luke came over and stood amongst the city players. Apparently Lee pushed him away and Luke went off with a smile/smirk on his face.

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5 minutes ago, ITK..... said:

We are so bad at tactical fouls. The second goal derby scored against us a great example. Three of our midfield could have taken a yellow..... instead they just let him waltz through. So frustrating.

I have often wondered whether LJ instructs our players to be very careful of not picking up bookings because of then risk of second booking.

But i think on average taking one for the team every now and then has more benefits than not doing so.

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5 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Listening to the match on Talksport it was interesting that when there was an injury and an impromptu team talk , Luke came over and stood amongst the city players. Apparently Lee pushed him away and Luke went off with a smile/smirk on his face.

I'd feel that was less likely anything to do with history, and more to do with LJ not wanting an opponent to be in on our tactical talk.

We know Leeds like to do that of course, but it's hardly sinister that we want to stop it? 

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7 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Exactly this. Their high press game relies on them getting numbers forward fast. It's not always precise, accurate, and it's a kind of percentage football that requires bodies in and around the box and the likelihood that something will eventually fall through one of them. As it did for their goal. 

Bit of course the risk that goes with that is getting caught on the break, and the tactic of stopping that by any means, shirt pulling, tripping, preferably while still in the Leeds half to reduce the risk of a booking, seems like a fundamental part of their game. 

Yep. Very similar to Guardiola tactics in fouling highest up the pitch as possible when losing possession. But doing so in a way that they won't get booked. I actually think the way they foul is such an important part of not being caught on the break, that a lot of work probably goes into how to foul and where to foul in their set up and in training.

Its annoying to watch. Refs are just far too weak at this level.

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On 15/02/2020 at 23:48, mozo said:

Umm... kissing the badge like that for your goal celebration against the club that helped hou on your way? Totally inappropriate. 

To me he clearly looked fired up yesterday 

Can only assume that is because of the way he was treated for his exit. The reason I say that is because it won't be against us fans and the players are different now, so who is left that he may have beef with? 

I thought his Swindon esque celebrations at the full time whistle were uncalled for, leaping around like he'd won the league 

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9 hours ago, mozo said:

Umm... kissing the badge like that for your goal celebration against the club that helped hou on your way? Totally inappropriate. 

The club got rid of him, most likely because of the off field events that happened. I have nothing against him and being as he is loved by the Leeds fans and supported by them I hold nothing against him. He's moved on, he owes is nothing. 

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1 hour ago, RedDave said:

I love stuff like that!  Adebayor celebration v Arsenal is the best ever 

He was a part of the promotion team here, a big part, a well liked player. Why the **** does he feel the need to shove it down our throats. Gone down in my estimation.

Edited by AppyDAZE
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6 minutes ago, Spike said:

The club got rid of him, most likely because of the off field events that happened. I have nothing against him and being as he is loved by the Leeds fans and supported by them I hold nothing against him. He's moved on, he owes is nothing. 

A bit like Cunningham. Now that is one player i loathe! 

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1 hour ago, SPAZZA said:

What does that say?

Maybe he didn’t like the way he was shoved out at City for a basement price.

Everytime (before today) he’s clapped the City fans when we’ve played home and away n it (I’ve seen it with my own eyes), maybe he’s just had enough of you nowadays.

He does buy fouls at RB, he blocks the ball waits for the smallest of touches and falls on the ball. Surely if the opposition had any intelligence about them they would ensure they stay 1 yard away and not give him the opportunity.

He did this the very moment he came here so must have done it for you too.

It would infuriate me as an opposition fan however I’d also be angry at my own side for getting too close and giving him the opportunity and not learning during the game.

He’s turned into a very decent RB, prone to the old stupid losing of the ball but overall what a bargain 👍

You talk about fouls and advantage, it works both ways. Phillips, Dallas and Costa were fouled a fair amount and the ref played advantage, but never came back to issue a card.

I hate it when fans think just because someone played for them they should not give it ALL for their new team. He should “check” his emotions when scoring a vital promotion chasing goal, should he ****.

Let the lad enjoy playing for a club that wants and appreciates him, coaches and fans.

He’s been our player for years now, let go.

Maybe he’s kissing his way to the Premier League.

It's difficult to see it with anyone elses eyes!!!

:innocent06:

Edited by Redtucks
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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

It was those tactics they used in diving or fouling that made it so hard for us. The refereeing standards are getting worse in this division. The game I saw earlier in day - WBA v Forest was just mistake after mistake from the ref.

The ref in our game was shocking too in letting Leeds do whatever they wanted. Clear pen too.

Agreed JD. However we need to be more aggressive in our game plan. When we play teams that show some balls and aggression we simply submit. I also watched the highlights WBA v Forest and also Millwall and Fulham earlier in the week. All these four clubs showed commitment to the 90 minutes and for some reason we do not show it. If its poor referee decisions are not we do not play positive or aggressive enough for the majority of 90 minutes to sway a referee in our favour.

we need more balls

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10 hours ago, RedDave said:

Lots of people on the match day thread voiced hatred towards Ayling but nobody gave a reason why. Any ideas?

Probably because through his play and commitment he made it absolutely clear that he was 'bust a gut' intent on making a point and scoring against us yesterday and that he did.  Couldn't believe the numpties booing him when he came on the park. Sure as hell showed greater commitment to the cause than the rest of ours combined and whilst I don't like the chest thumping, badge grabbing showmanship that's doubtless because we don't get to see much of it from our mob. 

The quality of his passing and runs were excellent and he is as good as, if not superior to, what we've replaced him with. He may not be the greatest player, but you know he'll put a shift in and is ever reliable.

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12 hours ago, glos old boy said:

there are a few more playing for some welsh outfit who are right up our backsides but not quite right for us as well. oh and if you add in a couple at Fulham and a few elsewhere, reckon we could storm this div; oh the manager could be a problem though.

There's always a natural churn of players, I don't know why people don't seem to grasp this. Bryan and Reid would still obviously be first team players for us but moved onto better things, Pack would be useful to have around. I don't think we'd need Flint anymore. Tomlin, although talented, is more trouble than he's worth.

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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13 hours ago, Hampshire reds said:

how was that not a pen .luke Ayling  dived at the ball. officials have to be brave at places like elland road. he took the easy way out and not give it. its poor. it could have changed the game. 

We got battered. It could of been 5-0 . Stop moaning about a decision we didn’t get and move on . We were ******* terrible yesterday . 

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1 hour ago, Olé said:

Absolutely this. I was going mad during the game counting out the number of times a City player was pulled back and screaming at the ref to get a card out.

Don't see too many mentions re Massengo on their players in the box, early doors. The first (Dallas) where he clearly pulled him back and over. The second, seconds later, where in preparation of the kick the ref pointed at Massengo intimating ' I can see what you are doing' only to proceed do nothing when Massengo again grabbed their player's shirt for what should have been a pen. Became so routine that by the second half the ref had to speak to the haired one through Williams in case he wasn't au fait with the laws of the game.

Yes the ref was poor. Yes we should have had a penalty. But by the same token we should have had 3 or 4 awarded against us and we should have been down to ten men after 8 minutes. Funny how the myopic (and I'm not putting you Ole in that category) never admit to that. 

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When he first signed for City, I was told by a few sources close to YTFC that Ayling was a bit of a clown, the dressing room idiot, and had a long way to go in regards to maturing as a professional. They were totally unsurprised by his actions after the Cheltenham incident. I still think that day at the races had a lot to do with him being sold to Leeds. 

He’s a very good footballer, there’s no denying that. However, theres a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Maybe my opinion has been influenced by what I was told previously, but I think he draws that line with a very thick marker pen. 

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2 hours ago, SPAZZA said:

What does that say?

Maybe he didn’t like the way he was shoved out at City for a basement price.

You think he’s still bitter about being made to leave little old Bristol City and sign for Leeds?

I’d have thought he’d be over it by now but maybe not...

 

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Of course Ayling was going to celebrate. But Elland Road has plenty of Leeds fans to celebrate with. Pulling his badge almost off his shirt to kiss it, right in front of our little corner was provocative, unpleasant and uncalled for. Whatever his complaint with the management, it isn't the fans fault. He was well respected and admired as a member of our most successful squad in decades. He was hardly hounded out by public demand. I have lost all respect for him now. 

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Don't see too many mentions re Massengo on their players in the box, early doors. The first (Dallas) where he clearly pulled him back and over. The second, seconds later, where in preparation of the kick the ref pointed at Massengo intimating ' I can see what you are doing' only to proceed do nothing when Massengo again grabbed their player's shirt for what should have been a pen. Became so routine that by the second half the ref had to speak to the haired one through Williams in case he wasn't au fait with the laws of the game.

Yes the ref was poor. Yes we should have had a penalty. But by the same token we should have had 3 or 4 awarded against us and we should have been down to ten men after 8 minutes. Funny how the myopic (and I'm not putting you Ole in that category) never admit to that. 

We should have had 3 or 4 penalties against us? Nonsense.   Just because 34,000 Leeds fans are trying to intimidate the ref  doesn't mean its a pen.

Also, how could we have been down to 10 after 8 minutes?  I've no idea what you mean - no hint of a professional foul / last man offence???? 

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3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

He hasn’t turned into one mate. He always was one, just sadly someone who wasn’t appreciated by Johnson and was let go for less than a quarter of his market value (see Freeman). 
 

Im pleased he’s doing well. Always thought he was harshly treated and always said he’d go onto bigger things than Bristol City. Sadly, I was right. 
 

As for kissing the badge, why on earth wouldn’t he?

Agree. I think too many look at those runs into midfield and see a flawed defender. His back-post positioning and heading were exemplary.  His covering of Flint unnoticed.  Only Williams covers his CB as well as Ayling did for us.  Always happy to receive a ball, importantly with his head-up...means he can go line or inside, with a good first touch to execute that. @SPAZZA you got a good’un so cheap.

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24 minutes ago, Fatalist said:

We should have had 3 or 4 penalties against us? Nonsense.   Just because 34,000 Leeds fans are trying to intimidate the ref  doesn't mean its a pen.

Also, how could we have been down to 10 after 8 minutes?  I've no idea what you mean - no hint of a professional foul / last man offence???? 

First 8 minutes Massengo twice pulled back players in the box both offenses of which merit a booking and penalty. He continued to do so throughout. If you claim Ayling's as handball I think it was Baker who did likewise. There were also additional dirt tugs and pushing by us during Leeds onslaught inside the box. Leeds fans are boorish gobsh*tes of the first water but doesn't mean when they clamour for a penalty it wasn't one.

Edited by BTRFTG
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Not how I saw it at all. Is it really likely that the ref would take the trouble to warn Massengo via the captain, and then let him repeat the offence "throughout" without giving anything?

No chance of hands against Baker. If you actually believe Leeds should have had 4 penalties, I'll bet you are the only one who does.

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14 hours ago, mozo said:

Umm... kissing the badge like that for your goal celebration against the club that helped hou on your way? Totally inappropriate. 

Fairly sure LJ told him he didn’t think he was good enough to play in the system he wanted. Edged out the side toward the end of his time. 
 

Always gave 100% for us, now no doubt on more money playing in front of more people & occasionally captain of that Leeds side. Totally fair bins to celebrate like he did imo and rather players do that than just stand there apologising for scoring against their old club tbh

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