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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Amazing really, I mean they sacked Warnock who “guarantees you promotion” apparently, and since that they have massively improved, who would have thought it, eh?

He literally got them promoted in his first full season.

Once again your personal distaste for the man is making you blind to facts.

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Between Cardiff and derby for me but I still think we should be getting wins against wednesday hull Stoke those are winnable but that won't be enough i really don't think we've got enough to get there.

This season had to be a season with no excuses even though we've had this virus breaking the season everyone is in the same boat,But before this our season has been a shambles regarding quality.

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5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Our fanbase is so ******* toxic.

Is it just the fanbase though? How many players have looked like they were enjoying their game in the last 2 seasons - yes they come over and salute the fans but how much friendly interaction with the coach do we see?

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5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Our fanbase is so ******* toxic.

Our fan base is frustrated. We have had our expectations raised and then dashed so many times, but what hurts more than that is how little entertainment we have had watching home games this season and the one before.

I would love us to make the playoffs and even win them, but realistically we look miles away from that and our top half position is somewhat false.  Our goal difference is more telling and 13th or worse would actually reflect how we have played much of the time.

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2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I’ve frequently defended LJ’s record here in terms of incremental league position improvement.

But my view now is that improving our position this year by one place, given the continued substantial investment investment in the team, coupled with the sheer lack of entertainment or any sense of the manager knowing his best team or how he wants to play...would NOT represent a successful season or vindication of Johnson remaining in charge.

Far from it being “mad” to get rid of Johnson, I can’t help but conclude that we are now underachieving and that another manager - such as a Hughton or McCarthy - would be capable of getting more from this group of players, and with the same amount of money afforded to them.

Simple league position improvement does not automatically mean the season can be considered a success; it’s about fulfilling our potential - and I’m not convinced that we are.

Yet I’ve been slaughtered the last couple of years for pushing this point across on this forum

People have often said I have a personal vendetta against LJ. Granted I’ve never had much time for the bloke but I couldn’t honestly ever see us making the play offs under him. I still don’t think we will

The funding he has had this season has been incredible for a team without parachute payments. Teams like Brentford, Preston, Blackburn shouldn’t be getting near us....yet the reality is they look far more competent then us at this level 

That team selection and subsequent performance last week was, for me, the lowest point for LJ in the last couple of years. He had 3 months to take a step back, clear his head and re-evaluate.

What did he do? He persisted with the exact same methods he was using before lockdown. Unbelievable 

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All the posters that have rubbished Johnson's achievements in improving our league position for 4 seasons whilst having money to spend have conveniently forgot to mention the players he has sold. He has raked in tens of millions for the club by selling some of our best players every season and still improved our position.

Be very careful what you wish for. I wonder how many Arsenal fans would take back Wenger now?

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17 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Our fanbase is so ******* toxic.

Nonsense....I think our fan base has been extremely patient and has now reached boiling point with our current manager irrespective of league position. Most people would take a bit of entertainment and recognised system of play over finishing a turgid 7th season on season.

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18 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Yet I’ve been slaughtered the last couple of years for pushing this point across on this forum

People have often said I have a personal vendetta against LJ. Granted I’ve never had much time for the bloke but I couldn’t honestly ever see us making the play offs under him. I still don’t think we will

The funding he has had this season has been incredible for a team without parachute payments. Teams like Brentford, Preston, Blackburn shouldn’t be getting near us....yet the reality is they look far more competent then us at this level 

That team selection and subsequent performance last week was, for me, the lowest point for LJ in the last couple of years. He had 3 months to take a step back, clear his head and re-evaluate.

What did he do? He persisted with the exact same methods he was using before lockdown. Unbelievable 

The fact we’re now agreeing with you here in June 2020 doesn’t mean it was wrong to disagree with you previously.

Under Johnson we’ve gone from 17th, to 11th, to 8th. All substantial incremental steps. On balance I was satisfied with the progress, it didn’t feel like underachievement and was commensurate with the investment.

I now feel anything less than a play off position represents underachievement, and without the compensation of entertainment or any sense that Johnson is still taking us forwards, the time has come for a change.

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3 hours ago, mozo said:

Whilst I completely understand your viewpoint, I'd say 2 things:

1. If we finish 7th, it is proof that LJ can keep improving us, so you'd be mad not to want him to continue his season on season gains.

2. Surely fan morality dictates that supporters can't hope for losses, even if it were for a perceived greater good?

Wanted to come back to you on the second point. It’s an interesting moral dilemma for any fan.

On the face of it - of course you never want your team to lose.

But let’s say we were playing a game with nothing particular at stake on the pitch, where you knew a terrible manager was going to stay if we won, but get sacked and replaced with a far superior manager if we lost - what would you want to happen?

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39 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

It really isn’t. If it was toxic LJ would have been gone 18 months ago

in fact, our fan base overall is extremely tepid and patient these days 

Andy Remember outside years ago the players entrance or boardroom would have been swamped with unhappy fans.They get away with murder now.

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8 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Wanted to come back to you on the second point. It’s an interesting moral dilemma for any fan.

On the face of it - of course you never want your team to lose.

But let’s say we were playing a game with nothing particular at stake on the pitch, where you knew a terrible manager was going to stay if we won, but get sacked and replaced with a far superior manager if we lost - what would you want to happen?

C'mon you Blues/Potters/Owls/Cottagers etcetera.

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To say performances over the past 2 years have been turgid is being very generous. I have been a supporter for over 60 years & have never been so regularly bored with the abysmal "style" of play. We all pay a lot of money & want to be entertained. I don't expect us to win every game but I at least expect to be entertained. My family has 3 season tickets & I am seriously considering cancelling the direct debit on Monday before any money is taken from my account.

Down to LJ to get it sorted pronto!

 

 

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55 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

All the posters that have rubbished Johnson's achievements in improving our league position for 4 seasons whilst having money to spend have conveniently forgot to mention the players he has sold. He has raked in tens of millions for the club by selling some of our best players every season and still improved our position.

Be very careful what you wish for. I wonder how many Arsenal fans would take back Wenger now?

Our position has improved but the quality of football/entertainment hasn't. 

Honestly I'm bored of these crap performances week in week out, Wenger didn't get results for years, it's like saying I wonder how many Liverpool fans would take Rogers back. There's always a case for the other way. 

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34 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

 

But let’s say we were playing a game with nothing particular at stake on the pitch, where you knew a terrible manager was going to stay if we won, but get sacked and replaced with a far superior manager if we lost - what would you want to happen?

It depends. In this scenario am I a virtuous person or not? 😁

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7 minutes ago, handballbygordonparr said:

yet another season of the dullest football I've watched at the Gate for over 50 years

I think we've been awful, but I do think you're forgetting a lot of other awful times. 

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1 minute ago, Selred said:

I think we've been awful, but I do think you're forgetting a lot of other awful times. 

Very true - but they were still fun - I got up every Saturday with excitement and anticipation - had a laugh at the game and maybe a moan in the pub after but now its nearly all miserable. The Gate's got nicer toilets now though. 

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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Our fan base is frustrated. We have had our expectations raised and then dashed so many times, but what hurts more than that is how little entertainment we have had watching home games this season and the one before.

I would love us to make the playoffs and even win them, but realistically we look miles away from that and our top half position is somewhat false.  Our goal difference is more telling and 13th or worse would actually reflect how we have played much of the time.

Back last summer, having watched this TedTalk....

....I said we needed to improve our goal difference by +10, either by conceding less or scoring more or combinations of both.  As it stands we have gone backwards in terms of goal difference.  8 games left to get 15 points to match last season’s 70 points.  @Andy082005 I agree, no point finishing 7th with 69 points is it!

The other interesting thing is that this is Rasmus Ankerson, one of the men behind Brentford!!

1 hour ago, sglosbcfc said:

All the posters that have rubbished Johnson's achievements in improving our league position for 4 seasons whilst having money to spend have conveniently forgot to mention the players he has sold. He has raked in tens of millions for the club by selling some of our best players every season and still improved our position.

Be very careful what you wish for. I wonder how many Arsenal fans would take back Wenger now?

Every club sells players in the Champ.  It’s not just City.

You don’t here Brentford moaning about selling Maupay, Konsa, Sawyers, Bentley (!!) for £35m, losing Barbet on a free in the summer do you?

The 3 clubs relegated from the Prem all sold key players.

Even Leeds, sold £27m whilst spending £0.  West Brom sold £29m spending £18m.

It is the nature of the Championship.

But more importantly it’s what LJ has bought into.

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16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Back last summer, having watched this TedTalk....

....I said we needed to improve our goal difference by +10, either by conceding less or scoring more or combinations of both.  As it stands we have gone backwards in terms of goal difference.  8 games left to get 15 points to match last season’s 70 points.  @Andy082005 I agree, no point finishing 7th with 69 points is it!

The other interesting thing is that this is Rasmus Ankerson, one of the men behind Brentford!!

Every club sells players in the Champ.  It’s not just City.

You don’t here Brentford moaning about selling Maupay, Konsa, Sawyers, Bentley (!!) for £35m, losing Barbet on a free in the summer do you?

The 3 clubs relegated from the Prem all sold key players.

Even Leeds, sold £27m whilst spending £0.  West Brom sold £29m spending £18m.

It is the nature of the Championship.

But more importantly it’s what LJ has bought into.

Poor goal difference, along with streakiness and the play off position collapse, is a curious theme of Johnson's reign. Very odd.

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