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Ashton Gate Limited - Job Losses


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15 minutes ago, RedM said:

It’s just an indication that they can’t see the renenue they used to have returning anyt8me soon. A lot of AG was used on a daily basis preCovid, anything from conferences, parties, blood doning, driver awareness courses to exams and everything inbetween. All this income has gone. The place is pretty much a giant food bank most days for the past few months. 

Before anyone slates SL I heard he has been pretty reasonable to his staff on furlough, below a certain salary cap he has topped up the furlough pay so they have got full pay, he didn’t have to do this. But of course it can’t go on forever. It’s happening everywhere. 

You sure? Maybe, but these things as we've seen elsewhere have a habit of finding their way into the press or media- there was no particular report on it unlike other clubs or organisations.

Elsewhere it's even been announced officially as part of a measure- it's good optics after all. 

Jury out on that, methinks- yet it does sound the sort of thing he would have done tbh.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Even though this is terrible - imagine the L1/L2/NL clubs who literally live on the breadline. It WILL be terminal for many of them i fear unless englishfootball.plc come together, i.e the PL cough up the cash as a fund to save the lower leagues. The government wont as their pockets have been stretched deep. Absolutely horrible situation. 

Be thankful we have been financially prudent - we will get hit hard but not as hard as others who have spunked money away

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5 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Even though this is terrible - imagine the L1/L2/NL clubs who literally live on the breadline. It WILL be terminal for many of them i fear unless englishfootball.plc come together, i.e the PL cough up the cash as a fund to save the lower leagues. The government wont as their pockets have been stretched deep. Absolutely horrible situation. 

Be thankful we have been financially prudent - we will get hit hard but not as hard as others who have spunked money away

I certainly think a number of clubs will be in deep trouble and lots of players will be offered salaries of half the amount they are on now, take it or leave it. However the majority of the Premiership will leave the rest to it and carry on as if nothing has happened.

Tough times for many and we could see a number of relegations in the next season or two decided by the balance sheet, not points. It’s been said Wigan are just the start and I believe it tbh.

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2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Tough times for many and we could see a number of relegations in the next season or two decided by the balance sheet, not points. It’s been said Wigan are just the start and I believe it tbh.

FFP is going to have to go out of the window for CV19. Common sense needed but i dont have much faith the the EFL. Too political and up the arse of the "big" clubs

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11 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Everyone lucky enough to still have a job paying their taxes to help the country get through this...

 

...meanwhile on Guernsey "Lay people off" 

I’m sure Steve Lansdown could justify his lifetime personal tax liability to you if he needed to not to mention the taxes his company pays and indirect taxation he has created through making others wealthy.

More importantly, however, I have no doubt that the amount he saves on tax is pretty much going into our football club and allowing you the privilege of watching Marley Watkins on a Saturday afternoon.......

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26 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I’m sure Steve Lansdown could justify his lifetime personal tax liability to you if he needed to not to mention the taxes his company pays and indirect taxation he has created through making others wealthy.

More importantly, however, I have no doubt that the amount he saves on tax is pretty much going into our football club and allowing you the privilege of watching Marley Watkins on a Saturday afternoon.......

I don't attend matches anymore since he whacked up prices for disabled fans and re-branded Bristol Rugby ala Vincent Tan. 

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39 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

FFP is going to have to go out of the window for CV19. Common sense needed but i dont have much faith the the EFL. Too political and up the arse of the "big" clubs

Talk of extending the reporting cycle by 1 year, so that the next one is next season and will be 4 years worth (instead of 3)....giving clubs a two year period to get their house in order.

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6 hours ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Unfortunately, it's the way of the World. I myself was made redundant 5, yes 5 times during Mrs Thatchers rein of terror and times were hard, still I managed to find work and got by.  I know it's not exactly the same as this situation and it will be hard for everyone who loses their job because of this crisis, but in my experience most people are very adaptable and will always find a way to survive and even improve sometimes, I know I did. I wish everyone who is in this position good luck and never give up what ever happens.

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40 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I’m sure Steve Lansdown could justify his lifetime personal tax liability to you if he needed to not to mention the taxes his company pays and indirect taxation he has created through making others wealthy.

More importantly, however, I have no doubt that the amount he saves on tax is pretty much going into our football club and allowing you the privilege of watching Marley Watkins on a Saturday afternoon.......

Couldn't like this more 

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, the structure of Bristol City Holdings, contains 2 businesses:

  • Bristol City Football Club Ltd
  • Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd

Bristol Sport Ltd is separate, but part of Pula.

Bristol Rugby club pay rent to AGS Ltd, as do BCFC Ltd. Both Rugby and Football pay Bristol Sport for ticketing, media etc.  Thanks to @Coppellofor the initial pic which I added the scribble to.

image.thumb.jpeg.cbc26b48116e3e5e7ac923c98929a50b.jpeg

You know my thoughts on all of this structure nonsense @Davefevs as I spent more years than I now care to remember looking into the murky drains that inevitably need looking into when it comes to this sort of thing.

Whilst what Lansdown will have done will have been legal anything that involves holding companies, beneficial owners and offshore registrations is done for one of a few reasons - and none of them are out of the goodness of anyone’s heart.

Yes. Here he goes again. The ultimate beneficial owner benefits whilst the poor bastards who serve up the pies, pull the pints or sell the programmes are supposed to be grateful if they’re “lucky” enough to get whatever BoJo’s state entitlement actually is at the moment.

Steve on the other hand will be fine. He’ll sit tight in Guernsey where he’ll mitigate his tax and watch as the value of all his BS3 freeholds increase over time........

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Just now, sticks 1969 said:
6 hours ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Unfortunately, it's the way of the World. I myself was made redundant 5, yes 5 times during Mrs Thatchers rein of terror and times were hard, still I managed to find work and got by.  I know it's not exactly the same as this situation and it will be hard for everyone who loses their job because of this crisis, but in my experience most people are very adaptable and will always find a way to survive and even improve sometimes, I know I did. I wish everyone who is in this position good luck and never give up what ever happens.

If you don’t mind me asking how long have you live over there and what made you choose Estonia 

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11 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

You know my thoughts on all of this structure nonsense @Davefevs as I spent more years than I now care to remember looking into the murky drains that inevitably need looking into when it comes to this sort of thing.

Whilst what Lansdown will have done will have been legal anything that involves holding companies, beneficial owners and offshore registrations is done for one of a few reasons - and none of them are out of the goodness of anyone’s heart.

Yes. Here he goes again. The ultimate beneficial owner benefits whilst the poor bastards who serve up the pies, pull the pints or sell the programmes are supposed to be grateful if they’re “lucky” enough to get whatever BoJo’s state entitlement actually is at the moment.

Steve on the other hand will be fine. He’ll sit tight in Guernsey where he’ll mitigate his tax and watch as the value of all his BS3 freeholds increase over time........

Sorry but I have to massively disagree - do you think Lansdown's ownership of City has been nothing but massive drain on his personal finance? 

Any redundancy is horrific, but the positions being made redundant are surely the ones created by his investment in the club's infrastructure?

 

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10 minutes ago, Son Of Nob said:

Sorry but I have to massively disagree - do you think Lansdown's ownership of City has been nothing but massive drain on his personal finance? 

Any redundancy is horrific, but the positions being made redundant are surely the ones created by his investment in the club's infrastructure?

 

In the here and now and then perhaps the medium term, but the long game? 

Covid notwithstanding, asset/land prices in a place like Bristol are going in one direction and one direction only...

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27 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

You know my thoughts on all of this structure nonsense @Davefevs as I spent more years than I now care to remember looking into the murky drains that inevitably need looking into when it comes to this sort of thing.

Whilst what Lansdown will have done will have been legal anything that involves holding companies, beneficial owners and offshore registrations is done for one of a few reasons - and none of them are out of the goodness of anyone’s heart.

Yes. Here he goes again. The ultimate beneficial owner benefits whilst the poor bastards who serve up the pies, pull the pints or sell the programmes are supposed to be grateful if they’re “lucky” enough to get whatever BoJo’s state entitlement actually is at the moment.

Steve on the other hand will be fine. He’ll sit tight in Guernsey where he’ll mitigate his tax and watch as the value of all his BS3 freeholds increase over time........

Interested to know how he benefits. 

Makes savings (for business and himself) yes, but benefit? Can't be a huge amount in this scenario surely?

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29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In the here and now and then perhaps the medium term, but the long game? 

Covid notwithstanding, asset/land prices in a place like Bristol are going in one direction and one direction only...

Potentially, yes. But to the extent of his investment? I'm not sure.

Its clearly not an investment based on potential property prices in the future. If the family eventually make the money back which has been invested in the club, good for them! I wouldn't begrudge it.

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So many people don't understand how basic economics works

If there is no demand for a product then you stop supplying in, sadly those working to supply the product will no longer be in a job, its shit but that's the capitalist world we live in,

Edited by Monkeh
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9 minutes ago, Son Of Nob said:

Potentially, yes. But to the extent of his investment? I'm not sure.

Its clearly not an investment based on potential property prices in the future. If the family eventually make the money back which has been invested in the club, good for them! I wouldn't begrudge it.

Ashton Gate, training ground, Land for property around Ashton Vale site. Wonder what the maximum realisable value of all that might be.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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12 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

So many people don't understand how basic economics works

If there is no demand for a product then you stop supplying in, sadly those working to supply the product will no longer be in a job, its shit but that's the capitalist world we live in,

Leeds players. 

Took a huge deferral, prevented the club having to take the furlough even. Granted promotion to PL mitigates with respect to job losses.

They get a lot of flak but all credit to them.

Some might say, either you've got it...

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1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

You know my thoughts on all of this structure nonsense @Davefevs as I spent more years than I now care to remember looking into the murky drains that inevitably need looking into when it comes to this sort of thing.

Whilst what Lansdown will have done will have been legal anything that involves holding companies, beneficial owners and offshore registrations is done for one of a few reasons - and none of them are out of the goodness of anyone’s heart.

Yes. Here he goes again. The ultimate beneficial owner benefits whilst the poor bastards who serve up the pies, pull the pints or sell the programmes are supposed to be grateful if they’re “lucky” enough to get whatever BoJo’s state entitlement actually is at the moment.

Steve on the other hand will be fine. He’ll sit tight in Guernsey where he’ll mitigate his tax and watch as the value of all his BS3 freeholds increase over time........

 

1 hour ago, Son Of Nob said:

Sorry but I have to massively disagree - do you think Lansdown's ownership of City has been nothing but massive drain on his personal finance? 

Any redundancy is horrific, but the positions being made redundant are surely the ones created by his investment in the club's infrastructure?

 

Big Al is right Son of Nob is misguided.

Lansdown hasn't gifted any of his money he's invested it, in property (on the cheap), and an asset, ie a football club, which we all know plenty of Russians/Saudis/Yanks/Asians will pay silly money for. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Leeds players. 

Took a huge deferral, prevented the club having to take the furlough even. Granted promotion to PL mitigates with respect to job losses.

They get a lot of flak but all credit to them.

Some might say, either you've got it...

Bristol city football club havent made any staff redundant though

Ashton gate holdings have

should we continue to pay and employ the events and conferencing teams when there are going to be no events for the foreseeable future?,

Why does any business make any job redundant?

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22 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Bristol city football club havent made any staff redundant though

Ashton gate holdings have

should we continue to pay and employ the events and conferencing teams when there are going to be no events for the foreseeable future?,

Why does any business make any job redundant?

Ashton Gate Limited is the company in q. Bristol City Holdings the group. The layoffs inevitable in these times. 

It's all sophistry though, the ownership analysis. Ultimately SL is the beneficial owner etc.

What's beyond dispute however is my point about Leeds. There is another way, albeit Sky money a decisive factor moving forward.

Never had to put their staff on furlough back in March/April though and all credit for that. Size of deferral worth real character.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 hour ago, NickJ said:

 

Big Al is right Son of Nob is misguided.

Lansdown hasn't gifted any of his money he's invested it, in property (on the cheap), and an asset, ie a football club, which we all know plenty of Russians/Saudis/Yanks/Asians will pay silly money for. 

Fair enough, you call me misguided but - ultimately - nothing to back it up except conjecture.

I don't think Steve Lansdown has invested £100m+(?) for any other reason than he wants to see Bristol City be the best club possible.

 

Now, he may, eventually, own land greater than the value of his investment (massively unlikely given the returns he could have made on other investments Billionaires make), but to infer that's part of an ultimate plan, I think, is a bit disrespectful for what he's done for this club.

 

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8 hours ago, NickJ said:

 

Big Al is right Son of Nob is misguided.

Lansdown hasn't gifted any of his money he's invested it, in property (on the cheap), and an asset, ie a football club, which we all know plenty of Russians/Saudis/Yanks/Asians will pay silly money for. 

Shouldn't someone who is prepared to invest their own money get some benefit? The guy doesn't exist to please you.

It seems that people want the owner to pump in tens of millions so we can watch good players and sell season tickets for about a ton each so they can watch cheap football whilst the owner makes a massive loss on his outlay and receives no benefit back whatsoever? How ******* mental is that type of thinking? It's his money and he could piss off tomorrow and, if he did, where are all these Russians/Saudi's/Yanks/Asians queueing round the block (socially distanced of course) to buy Bristol City FC at a price that is way over the odds, set aside billions of their personal fortune on player investment, ensure that football is FREE for all at Ashton Gate and be happy to have no INVESTMENT in return for this huge outlay? All I can see at present is the threat of badly owned clubs (in terms of finance) like Wigan facing points deductions. "It's only Wigan" you might say but I can see a domino effect occurring if Supporters cannot get back to games shortly.

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53 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Shouldn't someone who is prepared to invest their own money get some benefit? The guy doesn't exist to please you.

It seems that people want the owner to pump in tens of millions so we can watch good players and sell season tickets for about a ton each so they can watch cheap football whilst the owner makes a massive loss on his outlay and receives no benefit back whatsoever? How ******* mental is that type of thinking? It's his money and he could piss off tomorrow and, if he did, where are all these Russians/Saudi's/Yanks/Asians queueing round the block (socially distanced of course) to buy Bristol City FC at a price that is way over the odds, set aside billions of their personal fortune on player investment, ensure that football is FREE for all at Ashton Gate and be happy to have no INVESTMENT in return for this huge outlay? All I can see at present is the threat of badly owned clubs (in terms of finance) like Wigan facing points deductions. "It's only Wigan" you might say but I can see a domino effect occurring if Supporters cannot get back to games shortly.

With the current political climate, watch all the Chinese money dry up and those clubs with Chinese owners stop funding things 

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19 hours ago, frenchred said:

doesn’t sit well with me we have a billionaire owner and are prepared to pay underperforming players anywhere between 10 and 30 grand a week while people earning that in a year are being made redundant. just not right

Sadly, it isn't 'people' who get made redundant, it's jobs that become redundant.

If there is no banqueting market at the moment, jobs that allowed that market to flourish before hand just aren't there, likewise conferencing and a whole host of other functions that pre Covid they would have been looking to develop and expand.

Get the thought that losing employees through no fault of their own isn't great, and I can understand how when you consider what a football earns it might make some people uncomfortable but you can't expect a business to 'bench' entire functions if the work isn't there, just because the owner is wealthy.

Far better they use their wealth and experience to try and focus on other things in their business portfolio as they might be able to create new jobs there.

It is a shame like I say, but if we got relegated and the players all had a wage reduction clause in their contracts, would you expect the head of catering to take a wage cut as well?

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2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Sadly, it isn't 'people' who get made redundant, it's jobs that become redundant.

If there is no banqueting market at the moment, jobs that allowed that market to flourish before hand just aren't there, likewise conferencing and a whole host of other functions that pre Covid they would have been looking to develop and expand.

Get the thought that losing employees through no fault of their own isn't great, and I can understand how when you consider what a football earns it might make some people uncomfortable but you can't expect a business to 'bench' entire functions if the work isn't there, just because the owner is wealthy.

Far better they use their wealth and experience to try and focus on other things in their business portfolio as they might be able to create new jobs there.

It is a shame like I say, but if we got relegated and the players all had a wage reduction clause in their contracts, would you expect the head of catering to take a wage cut as well?

That last paragraph is pretty odd given that when clubs are relegated layoffs of non playing/non footballling staff are fairly commonplace. Wouldn't surprise me basically.

Some fair points in general but don't think we've had a particularly good pandemic.

Furloughed non playing staff did become common however, bit without a broad look at what Championship clubs in general  have done during it, comparisons are tricky.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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City have announced there could be as many as 45 job losses at Ashton gate but is this  not a solution?

If Korey Smith, Nicki Maenpaa and Ashley Williams are out of contract on an average championship salary of £29,000 per week

i.e. £1,508,000 per annum, then not replacing just 1 of them would more than pay the salaries of the 45 people at risk.

Is that a too simplistic way of looking at it. 

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Just now, dunsteral said:

City have announced there could be as many as 45 job losses at Ashton gate but is this  not a solution?

If Korey Smith, Nicki Maenpaa and Ashley Williams are out of contract on an average championship salary of £29,000 per week

i.e. £1,508,000 per annum, then not replacing just 1 of them would more than pay the salaries of the 45 people at risk.

Is that a too simplistic way of looking at it. 

It is simplistic but a reasonable question.

Firstly, the Stadium is a separate business to the football club (although owned by the same holding company). Secondly, there will be players with wage increases in their contracts, in addition to anyone else we get in, and the football club needs to run in a financially viable way. 

The benevolent thing to do would be to save the money and save the jobs but the view the board will no doubt take is they need to run the stadium as a business and the sums need to make sense. Keeping people in jobs that lose money or where those jobs are not needed during COVID doesn't make financial sense. It's not a nice way of thinking but the sad truth is that, living in a capitalist society, profit is more important to businesses than benevolence. 

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