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Mark Ashton - Opinions


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1 minute ago, windmillhillred said:

Yes. Because he so obviously isn’t.

Your opinion.  He may well be an excellent coach and ready for a step up.  This may be a very big step up, but the board may think he is worthy of the opportunity. Maybe they know the situation better than you do?  Who knows?

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9 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

You are dismissing the possibility that he might have been the best candidate to fill the job description.

A pretty good rule of thumb when recruiting is to assign 60% to the person's achievements and 40% to how well they interview.

As Dean has no achievements as a Head Coach it's pretty hard to see how he could score higher than other candidates.

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2 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Your opinion.  He may well be an excellent coach and ready for a step up.  This may be a very big step up, but the board may think he is worthy of the opportunity. Maybe they know the situation better than you do?  Who knows?

Sorry you’re really suggesting that the best option to take us to the premier league - as is the club’s stated aim - between Hughton, Cook and Holden might be Holden? Can you not see that is utterly, patently absurd? 
 

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Exactly, why not do a bit less in the recruitment area.....unless that scuppers you’re control of a situation of using certain agents.  Don’t get me wrong, I lay a lot of blame on LJ for not calling him out if he wasn’t getting the players he wanted.

why start another thread?

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2 minutes ago, windmillhillred said:

Sorry you’re really suggesting that the best option to take us to the premier league - as is the club’s stated aim - between Hughton, Cook and Holden might be Holden? Can you not see that is utterly, patently absurd? 
 

I do not really know if it is absurd or not because I do not know Holden or his capabilities.  The players seem to think well of him and there may be a feeling in the camp that he would do a good job.  Everyone has to start a management career with a first proper job and this may be his chance.  I doubt if any of us fans really know very much about the dynamics of relationships and abilities within the team and staff.  Like he, they will be guessing and trying to make sense out of what seems like a brave appointment.  Unless yo believe that he board really want to destroy the club, maybe you should wonder why they might appoint him - and try to look for positive reasons. There may well be some.

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1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

I do not really know if it is absurd or not because I do not know Holden or his capabilities.  The players seem to think well of him and there may be a feeling in the camp that he would do a good job.  Everyone has to start a management career with a first proper job and this may be his chance.  I doubt if any of us fans really know very much about the dynamics of relationships and abilities within the team and staff.  Like he, they will be guessing and trying to make sense out of what seems like a brave appointment.  Unless yo believe that he board really want to destroy the club, maybe you should wonder why they might appoint him - and try to look for positive reasons. There may well be some.

Hes already had his first proper job....at Oldham....where he won 3 games in total before being sacked.

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Getting decent fees for the good players we already had here was the easy bit. The hard bit was reinvesting that money well and Ashton has to take a large share of the blame for a bloated and unbalanced squad that doesn’t contain many players we can make a substantial profit on. 
 

 

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Just now, Bat Fastard said:

I do not really know if it is absurd or not because I do not know Holden or his capabilities.  The players seem to think well of him and there may be a feeling in the camp that he would do a good job.  Everyone has to start a management career with a first proper job and this may be his chance.  I doubt if any of us fans really know very much about the dynamics of relationships and abilities within the team and staff.  Like he, they will be guessing and trying to make sense out of what seems like a brave appointment.  Unless yo believe that he board really want to destroy the club, maybe you should wonder why they might appoint him - and try to look for positive reasons. There may well be some.

Of course I don’t think the board are looking to destroy the club. But if Holden is appointed then the club is admitting it has completely failed its recruitment process (why talk about change, or brag about all the CVs we have received if you think you might appoint from within). 
 

if he is appointed, it seems that there are two possibilities. One, nobody wanted to work under Ashton’s model, and that is deemed more important to the club than appointing someone who has been a head coach at any decent level. Two, Lansdown particularly likes Holden and has made a decision based on misguided sentiment. Both would reflect horrendously on the club. Let’s hope it’s not true and Hughton or Cook are unveiled this week.

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Well.

Whichever bright spark decided to float the Holden story to the press in order to suppress wage demands of the favoured candidate is probably regretting that move now. 

If I was lined up for the job, seeing the reaction of the fans tonight to the press ‘leak’, I might demand a doubling of the salary now!

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1 minute ago, CotterillsArmy2 said:

Hes already had his first proper job....at Oldham....where he won 3 games in total before being sacked.

IF he is appointed, is it your view that the board think he is a dud?  Would they entrust him with so many £million of assets under his control unless they thought he was a viable candidate starting from the position that he knows the players and they think highly of him?

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1 minute ago, windmillhillred said:

Of course I don’t think the board are looking to destroy the club. But if Holden is appointed then the club is admitting it has completely failed its recruitment process (why talk about change, or brag about all the CVs we have received if you think you might appoint from within). 
 

if he is appointed, it seems that there are two possibilities. One, nobody wanted to work under Ashton’s model, and that is deemed more important to the club than appointing someone who has been a head coach at any decent level. Two, Lansdown particularly likes Holden and has made a decision based on misguided sentiment. Both would reflect horrendously on the club. Let’s hope it’s not true and Hughton or Cook are unveiled this week.

Again, theories. None of us know what happened in the boardroom or what was said.  We don't know the budget, the covod19 restrictions or if the other candidates said they did not want to bother developing young players.  We are all just guessing and making up theories.  None of us has a clue - only opinions.

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Just now, Bat Fastard said:

IF he is appointed, is it your view that the board think he is a dud?  Would they entrust him with so many £million of assets under his control unless they thought he was a viable candidate starting from the position that he knows the players and they think highly of him?

Whether they think he is a dud is irrelevant, the fact is he clearly wasnt a serious candidate at the start of this process.....the evidence for this is SL interview with talksport. Covid finance clearly isnt the issue either, as other champ clubs have employed proven plus highly rated coaches. The question is what has happened to make him a realistic candidate, my assumption is control and power.....both SL and especially MA need it, therefore Holden now becomes the obvious choice.

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2 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

IF he is appointed, is it your view that the board think he is a dud?  Would they entrust him with so many £million of assets under his control unless they thought he was a viable candidate starting from the position that he knows the players and they think highly of him?

This point is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever. It’s not a contest to be best mates.  We need a leader not a wet nurse. 

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Just now, Bat Fastard said:

Again, theories. None of us know what happened in the boardroom or what was said.  We don't know the budget, the covod19 restrictions or if the other candidates said they did not want to bother developing young players.  We are all just guessing and making up theories.  None of us has a clue - only opinions.

 We do know that the club offered to make Gerrard the highest paid manager in the championship. I also highly doubt anyone interviewed said “I won’t be bothering developing younger players.” 

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2 minutes ago, CotterillsArmy2 said:

Whether they think he is a dud is irrelevant, the fact is he clearly wasnt a serious candidate at the start of this process.....the evidence for this is SL interview with talksport. Covid finance clearly isnt the issue either, as other champ clubs have employed proven plus highly rated coaches. The question is what has happened to make him a realistic candidate, my assumption is control and power.....both SL and especially MA need it, therefore Holden now becomes the obvious choice.

Assumptions and opinions - do you really think the board would entrust him with the job if they believed he was not up to it. They have seen him work for the last four years and should know his capabilities. On that goodnight!

1 minute ago, windmillhillred said:

 We do know that the club offered to make Gerrard the highest paid manager in the championship. I also highly doubt anyone interviewed said “I won’t be bothering developing younger players.” 

You know best, of course!

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10 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

IF he is appointed, is it your view that the board think he is a dud?  Would they entrust him with so many £million of assets under his control unless they thought he was a viable candidate starting from the position that he knows the players and they think highly of him?

Yes.

 

Because he probably won't be in control of anything apart from the players on the training ground.

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3 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Yes. Probably. Not possibly.

 

My reply still stands.

The idea of us having a head coach model is so flawed at the moment. If you have a head coach then you have a longer term Director of Football to oversee transfers and managerial comings and goings. Instead we have a CEO who is a businessman, not a scout or anything like that. It just doesn't add up and screams to me of Ashton (and probably the board) being very unhappy to relinquish control.

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2 minutes ago, YGBjammy said:

The idea of us having a head coach model is so flawed at the moment. If you have a head coach then you have a longer term Director of Football to oversee transfers and managerial comings and goings. Instead we have a CEO who is a businessman, not a scout or anything like that. It just doesn't add up and screams to me of Ashton (and probably the board) being very unhappy to relinquish control.

Exactly.

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3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I am not suggesting anything. But what if the price tag for some of the other contenders was huge and would get in the way of player purchases?  We don't even know if we can have fans in the Gat next year.  The thinking may just have developed that we have some outstanding young players and if we could bring them on to the extent that we had a real chance next season, when we may be able to supplement the squad from trading. I have no more idea than any of the other guesswork on this forum - but my postings are normally quite positive and not loaded with the hatred and resentment shown by some of our colleagues .

Just read a lot of your posts in the last few hours and I agree with many of the points you make.  Doesn’t make you (us) right or wrong, just probably looking at it from slightly different angles to there’s. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Holds no water except that someone may have said, " wait a minute, instead of paying all that cash for a manager, we could keep Dean and buy a player who could make a real difference to our young squad".   That might be a possibility.

I said in a post yesterday, ultimately it’s about the players not the manager.  Obviously no idea of the budgetary constraints that are going to be in place, but perhaps it does give him a tad more scope in the window.

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Your opinion.  He may well be an excellent coach and ready for a step up.  This may be a very big step up, but the board may think he is worthy of the opportunity. Maybe they know the situation better than you do?  Who knows?

....and I hope they support him with the right staff.  We all moan about (perceived) interference of MA in incoming players....but what if Brian Tinnion was given a more prominent role in recruitment to smooth that concern.  What if Williams was offered a coaching role (whilst still registering as a player), etc.  You start to build an appointment that looks a bit better than simply appointing Holden.  That’s my hope if he is announced.  I want to see that sone real thought has gone into it.

2 hours ago, Med/MadHatter said:

3 wins and 7 losses in 15 games, numbers that are bang on target for a relegation season

Or 5 games at his current club gaining 8 points, which is 73 points and would’ve got playoffs.  Your example is less relevant than mine...but both a bit irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 😂

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35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just read a lot of your posts in the last few hours and I agree with many of the points you make.  Doesn’t make you (us) right or wrong, just probably looking at it from slightly different angles to there’s. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

I said in a post yesterday, ultimately it’s about the players not the manager.  Obviously no idea of the budgetary constraints that are going to be in place, but perhaps it does give him a tad more scope in the window.

....and I hope they support him with the right staff.  We all moan about (perceived) interference of MA in incoming players....but what if Brian Tinnion was given a more prominent role in recruitment to smooth that concern.  What if Williams was offered a coaching role (whilst still registering as a player), etc.  You start to build an appointment that looks a bit better than simply appointing Holden.  That’s my hope if he is announced.  I want to see that sone real thought has gone into it.

Or 5 games at his current club gaining 8 points, which is 73 points and would’ve got playoffs.  Your example is less relevant than mine...but both a bit irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 😂

And the "football" was still dire apart from Boro, quite frankly 73 points would be a bloody miracle

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An appointment of Holden would spark the end for, not only Mark Ashton, but the Lansdown family. It would truly feel, to me, that the was the start of the reversal of everything that the past 6 years has been based upon. 

If I was one of the big names in the squad I'd be looking to leave ASAP is Holden is appointed and fans turn, which would be an inevitably. 

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2 hours ago, James54De said:

If I was one of the big names in the squad I'd be looking to leave ASAP is Holden is appointed and fans turn, which would be an inevitably. 

Not so sure about the players, this is the great paradox about how the club is run by SL & MA. In their model the playing squad is well invested and so if anything the players are empowered in the absence of a manager.

Appointing Holden is not a financial imperative just like it wasn't with LJ, even if that's what they want you to think - the proof will again be in all the signings they surround the inexperienced coach with to make this work.

So players carry extra importance because owner and CEO make decisions about them and throw more money at them than their own day to day 'manager'. And when fans turn, Holden is setup to be the fall guy, not them.

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