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4 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Firstly, I hold no anger or frustration towards DH. He is a man of integrity and strength. No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child and to be able to stand tall today and deal with some of the fall out from this situation at City, is frankly admirable. He will now be on a higher wage and I can't begrudge the man providing for his family.

 

Now, I've listened back to 20Man absolutely tearing MA a new asshole yesterday and remembered how quickly Ashton chucked Dean under the bus. When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

 

If or when this goes belly up, he's going to chuck Dean under the bus again. He will no doubt repeat the corporate spiel of "the club's vision and Dean's vision differed" or "Dean couldn't produce the criteria required." This is upsetting for me. This poor guy is on a road to nowhere and he doesn't need nor deserve a kick in the gut and that's exactly what Mark Ashton will do.

 

I think the club thought Dean was going to get the majority of the negativity and whilst he will always get some shit from elements of the fanbase, yesterday the fans aimed the pelters at the one behind the guff. The one who appointed LJ, sacked LJ, knowingly caused uproar and dragged out an unprecedented "process". 

 

@Davefevs iirc said the board would make a statement when they made an appointment. I agree. It's not the statement of "we want the Prem tomorrow" but a statement of "Ashton, it's your call this time. On your head, be it." 

 

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

I actually took it to mean that he wanted to show how Dean was his ‘ own man ‘ and wouldn’t shy away from difficult decisions.

I do, however, find Ashton’s ‘ persona rather overbearing.

The bloke has, nevertheless, made our club respected in our transfer negotiations. We don’t drop our trousers easily when the big boys come sniffing round our star players .  

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14 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Firstly, I hold no anger or frustration towards DH. He is a man of integrity and strength. No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child and to be able to stand tall today and deal with some of the fall out from this situation at City, is frankly admirable. He will now be on a higher wage and I can't begrudge the man providing for his family.

 

Now, I've listened back to 20Man absolutely tearing MA a new asshole yesterday and remembered how quickly Ashton chucked Dean under the bus. When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

 

If or when this goes belly up, he's going to chuck Dean under the bus again. He will no doubt repeat the corporate spiel of "the club's vision and Dean's vision differed" or "Dean couldn't produce the criteria required." This is upsetting for me. This poor guy is on a road to nowhere and he doesn't need nor deserve a kick in the gut and that's exactly what Mark Ashton will do.

 

I think the club thought Dean was going to get the majority of the negativity and whilst he will always get some shit from elements of the fanbase, yesterday the fans aimed the pelters at the one behind the guff. The one who appointed LJ, sacked LJ, knowingly caused uproar and dragged out an unprecedented "process". 

 

@Davefevs iirc said the board would make a statement when they made an appointment. I agree. It's not the statement of "we want the Prem tomorrow" but a statement of "Ashton, it's your call this time. On your head, be it." 

 

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

Obviously it's your opinion and I respect that but what if it was Dean's decision?

We of course aren't flies on the wall for these decisions so none of us know for sure but it could well be those decisions were made by him.

From the interviews with Simpson and Downing it sounds like those deals were wrapped up in a very quick couple of days. Of course they could be just saying that like Ashton is but it could just be true.

I'm not saying I know and you could be right but I can't see how anyone can say definitively how things progressed.

Edited by RedRoss
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8 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

Obviously it's your opinion and I respect that but what if it was Dean's decision?

We of course aren't flies on the wall for these decisions so none of us know for sure but it could well be those decisions were made by him.

From the interviews with Simpson and Downing it sounds like those deals were wrapped up in a very quick couple of days. Of course they could be just saying that like Ashton is but it could just be true.

I'm not saying I know and you could be right but I can't see how anyone can say definitively how things progressed.

Whether the decisions were made by Dean or not is irrelevant. I was trying to show how quickly MA shifted the blame. Almost like he doesn't want to be targeted so he uses any scapegoat rightly or wrongly, just to deflect it from himself.

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23 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Firstly, I hold no anger or frustration towards DH. He is a man of integrity and strength. No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child and to be able to stand tall today and deal with some of the fall out from this situation at City, is frankly admirable. He will now be on a higher wage and I can't begrudge the man providing for his family.

 

Now, I've listened back to 20Man absolutely tearing MA a new asshole yesterday and remembered how quickly Ashton chucked Dean under the bus. When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

 

If or when this goes belly up, he's going to chuck Dean under the bus again. He will no doubt repeat the corporate spiel of "the club's vision and Dean's vision differed" or "Dean couldn't produce the criteria required." This is upsetting for me. This poor guy is on a road to nowhere and he doesn't need nor deserve a kick in the gut and that's exactly what Mark Ashton will do.

 

I think the club thought Dean was going to get the majority of the negativity and whilst he will always get some shit from elements of the fanbase, yesterday the fans aimed the pelters at the one behind the guff. The one who appointed LJ, sacked LJ, knowingly caused uproar and dragged out an unprecedented "process". 

 

@Davefevs iirc said the board would make a statement when they made an appointment. I agree. It's not the statement of "we want the Prem tomorrow" but a statement of "Ashton, it's your call this time. On your head, be it." 

 

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

Its a sign of a poor leader (see Donald trump) blame everyone and take no responsibility, thats why the vast majority have seen through his shit,

I only wish he was on borrowed time

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1 minute ago, Septic Peg said:

Whether the decisions were made by Dean or not is irrelevant. I was trying to show how quickly MA shifted the blame. Almost like he doesn't want to be targeted so he uses any scapegoat rightly or wrongly, just to deflect it from himself.

So in a situation where we're saying they were Dean's decisions (as we can't know 100%)

Ashton tells the truth that it was Dean's decision but it doesn't matter because Ashton told us the truth about the head coach making decisions on a player he didn't want and a member of staff he didn't want to work with? 

There are things to say MA does wrong but if he's merely stating that Dean has jumped right in and made what are fairly big decisions that I'm glad as a fan to know that Dean is cracking on with it and making the decisions and therefore MA is telling us this.

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1 minute ago, Septic Peg said:

Whether the decisions were made by Dean or not is irrelevant. I was trying to show how quickly MA shifted the blame. Almost like he doesn't want to be targeted so he uses any scapegoat rightly or wrongly, just to deflect it from himself.

My take is in Ashton's mind he wasn't 'shifting blame' at all. I think he was trying to big up Dean as a strong, ruthless, decisive decision maker who is his own man - trying to get rid of the 'yes' man tag many have given him. Whether that works or not I'm not sure but I do get the impression Dean is wasting no time setting the ground running. Lot's made of the way Holden sold MA and JL on his plan for how he will make improvements to the club at interview and I guess Korey and Macca leaving and Simpson and Downing coming in are just the first phases of him enacting that plan.

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6 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

So in a situation where we're saying they were Dean's decisions (as we can't know 100%)

Ashton tells the truth that it was Dean's decision but it doesn't matter because Ashton told us the truth about the head coach making decisions on a player he didn't want and a member of staff he didn't want to work with? 

There are things to say MA does wrong but if he's merely stating that Dean has jumped right in and made what are fairly big decisions that I'm glad as a fan to know that Dean is cracking on with it and making the decisions and therefore MA is telling us this.

Again, I just question how quick Ashton is to deflect it on to someone else. He could have said club decision and/or mutual decision and left it as that. He didn't. He made it clear it wasn't him making the decision, ie deflecting any potential negativity away from himself or the club and putting it on an individual.

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7 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Whether the decisions were made by Dean or not is irrelevant. I was trying to show how quickly MA shifted the blame. Almost like he doesn't want to be targeted so he uses any scapegoat rightly or wrongly, just to deflect it from himself.

So on that basis.. he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

If he says I or the club made the decision fans would pick him apart for the decision not being left to Dean.

He said Dean made the decision and now he's deflecting any blame on such decisions.

I know MA isn't the most liked guy because of the corporate jargon and buzzwords he uses but I think he gets stick for anything at the moment.

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Just now, Septic Peg said:

Again, I just question how quick Ashton is to deflect it on to someone else. He could have said club decision and/or mutual decision and left it as that. He didn't. He made it clear it wasn't him making the decision, ie deflecting any potential negativity away from himself or the club and putting it on an individual.

🤷‍♂️ I just prefer to see that as Dean calling the shots and fans knowing it, if it is what happened. Why say its a club decision if its not what happened? All you'd get then is people complaining that the club is shielding Dean from criticism that he's not making decisions etc.

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52 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Firstly, I hold no anger or frustration towards DH. He is a man of integrity and strength. No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child and to be able to stand tall today and deal with some of the fall out from this situation at City, is frankly admirable. He will now be on a higher wage and I can't begrudge the man providing for his family.

 

Now, I've listened back to 20Man absolutely tearing MA a new asshole yesterday and remembered how quickly Ashton chucked Dean under the bus. When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

 

If or when this goes belly up, he's going to chuck Dean under the bus again. He will no doubt repeat the corporate spiel of "the club's vision and Dean's vision differed" or "Dean couldn't produce the criteria required." This is upsetting for me. This poor guy is on a road to nowhere and he doesn't need nor deserve a kick in the gut and that's exactly what Mark Ashton will do.

 

I think the club thought Dean was going to get the majority of the negativity and whilst he will always get some shit from elements of the fanbase, yesterday the fans aimed the pelters at the one behind the guff. The one who appointed LJ, sacked LJ, knowingly caused uproar and dragged out an unprecedented "process". 

 

@Davefevs iirc said the board would make a statement when they made an appointment. I agree. It's not the statement of "we want the Prem tomorrow" but a statement of "Ashton, it's your call this time. On your head, be it." 

 

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

Bloody hell, if people think 20p was tearing a new arsehole for MA, they haven't seen the likes of Andrew Neil at work. 20p was tame.

The irony of the complaints made by some on OTIB, complaining about the BS being spouted by the club, is complete when some on OTIB are also giving it large on BS.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p08n8p8r

The discussion about Corey starts at 1:03

MA starts off with explaining that the announcement happened because local media got it wrong about CS signing a new contract and then went on to explain that it was DH's decision i.e. it was DH hit the eject button. MA then explained further when pushed.

Why is there a need to create an imaginative narrative about a scape goats, finger pointing and deflecting blame?
Where's your complaint about the local press getting it wrong about CS?
Anybody might think you might be looking for a scape goat and doing some finger pointing.

Edited by bcfcfinker
changed their to there, in the hope of avoiding conflict with the grammar police
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4 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

🤷‍♂️ I just prefer to see that as Dean calling the shots and fans knowing it, if it is what happened. Why say its a club decision if its not what happened? All you'd get then is people complaining that the club is shielding Dean from criticism that he's not making decisions etc.

Spot on! It's great that Dean's been allowed to start making the changes he feels are needed to improve the squad/coaching staff without interference from above. 

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13 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Again, I just question how quick Ashton is to deflect it on to someone else. He could have said club decision and/or mutual decision and left it as that. He didn't. He made it clear it wasn't him making the decision, ie deflecting any potential negativity away from himself or the club and putting it on an individual.

He’s reiterating that Dean is the boss

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Have read the other comments, but from where I'm standing, your assessment of the situation seems to me pretty shrewd and on the money, Peg.

I have had experience of people like Ashton. In so far as it is possible to judge on what we see and hear of him, he is a narcissist. Narcissistic personalities are a nightmare to deal with and, whilst they can be highly competent and are often high achievers, they are dangerously flawed and almost invariably end up have a profoundly corrosive effect on the organisations in which they operate.

For one thing, they are never wrong about anything. If something bad happens, it simply must be someone else's fault. Take the credit for everything and the blame for nothing. They are devious, mendacious and manipulative. Above all, if my judgement about him is right (and I am of course willing to stand corrected if someone can demonstrate otherwise), you may take it as a given that MA's first priority is, and always will be, MA. Forget commitment to a cause, forget loyalty to colleagues. As long as his best interests align with that of the club, he will be an asset. But BCFC will be a stepping stone for him in the grand scheme of things. If you could see inside his head and read his ambitions, you may be sure that they don't end here. They will be far-reaching. He will see himself ending up as, say, CEO at an elite club, or perhaps in a very senior position within the game in this country - top dog in the EFL or even PL, maybe - or something of that sort. 

Narcissists are not squeamish about who they have to tread on to get where they want to be. They often leave a trail of collateral damage behind them as they pursue their chosen path. He will probably do many valuable things for the club - has, indeed, already done so - in the course of his own self-advancement, because it serves his own interests to be successful on our behalf, but I would be extremely wary of such a person. The personality of his most immediate senior colleague has been debated on another thread today, and I have been tempted to comment but thought it better not to do so. What I will say simply is that I think JL is quite a vulnerable person and that MA would have him for breakfast if it suited his agenda.

We therefore have, as has been spelt out on that other thread I mentioned, by a number of people whose judgment I would support, a massively dysfunctional and frankly fairly toxic combination of a hopelessly ineffectual Chairman, a powerful, wealthy, controlling owner, and a glib, slick and persuasive, but ultimately untrustworthy, CEO. If you take that on board, then what's taken place over the last five weeks becomes a lot easier to understand. It isn't the first time (though it may be the most spectacular so far), and it won't be the last time you see that kind of thing happen as long as the club is run in this way, by this triumvirate.

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1 hour ago, Septic Peg said:

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

Thats it Pegs... I said in another thread the bloke is best ignored from this moment on; as if he does not exist at the club; if one has to refer to him one simply calls him Dryball. 

 

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1 hour ago, Septic Peg said:

Whether the decisions were made by Dean or not is irrelevant. I was trying to show how quickly MA shifted the blame. Almost like he doesn't want to be targeted so he uses any scapegoat rightly or wrongly, just to deflect it from himself.

I got what you meant Peg.

For me if Dean doesn’t last the season (I really hope he does), I don’t think MA will survive also.  I don’t care if SL made the running on this one, if it goes wrong, SL won’t be blaming himself or JL, he’ll be blaming MA.

On Forever Bristol Pod I was asked whether I thought MA had even more power now.  My answer was I think he has more risk.

Of course he’ll bask in Dean’s glory if it goes well (why shouldn’t he), but he won’t be able to smarm his way out if it goes wrong.

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I can’t believe MA for one minute when he said that the coach has final decision on signings.

If that were true LJ would not have lasted 4 years! The money wasted on signings that did not work out, players who LJ could not trust, the way some players were actually scapegoated by LJ, The debacle of Semenjos recall! All seems to point to LJ having to make do with players he did not choose or want.

No coach would have behaved in that way with signings they wanted unless they felt they had been stabbed in the back by their presence, which can only mean LJ was told “there’s your squad get on with it”

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I firmly believe the anger and hate is absolutely not directed at DH.

Even if results turn bad next season I can see the anger being directed at Ashton not DH.

In this “process” we have all seen behind the curtain. As a result Ashton will get absolute belters and rightly so. 

Edited by One Team
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1 hour ago, havanatopia said:

Thats it Pegs... I said in another thread the bloke is best ignored from this moment on; as if he does not exist at the club; if one has to refer to him one simply calls him Dryball. 

 

i prefer a more apt way to refer to him    TOSSER

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I got what you meant Peg.

For me if Dean doesn’t last the season (I really hope he does), I don’t think MA will survive also.  I don’t care if SL made the running on this one, if it goes wrong, SL won’t be blaming himself or JL, he’ll be blaming MA.

On Forever Bristol Pod I was asked whether I thought MA had even more power now.  My answer was I think he has more risk.

Of course he’ll bask in Dean’s glory if it goes well (why shouldn’t he), but he won’t be able to smarm his way out if it goes wrong.

He [Ashton] hasn't actually said it but it would make sense if he did say "judge ME on Holden" much like SL said "judge me on Tinnion",  difference being BCFC is Lansdown's train set and Ashton is expendable!!

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4 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

Errr - maybe Dean made those decisions.....sometimes life is quite simple

Post is so full of MA vitriol and hatred it’s hard to take anything balanced from it. You clearly despise him and anything he says / does is negative 

Before you shoot me down and say I love him - frankly I couldn’t care less. He is there to do a job. Is he a bit corporate - yes - but so what? Would you rather have some spud farmer from Nailsea running the club?

 

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4 hours ago, RedRoss said:

So on that basis.. he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

If he says I or the club made the decision fans would pick him apart for the decision not being left to Dean.

He said Dean made the decision and now he's deflecting any blame on such decisions.

I know MA isn't the most liked guy because of the corporate jargon and buzzwords he uses but I think he gets stick for anything at the moment.

Ironically this thread accusing MA of scapegoating DH is itself scapegoating MA.

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4 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

Firstly, I hold no anger or frustration towards DH. He is a man of integrity and strength. No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child and to be able to stand tall today and deal with some of the fall out from this situation at City, is frankly admirable. He will now be on a higher wage and I can't begrudge the man providing for his family.

 

Now, I've listened back to 20Man absolutely tearing MA a new asshole yesterday and remembered how quickly Ashton chucked Dean under the bus. When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

 

If or when this goes belly up, he's going to chuck Dean under the bus again. He will no doubt repeat the corporate spiel of "the club's vision and Dean's vision differed" or "Dean couldn't produce the criteria required." This is upsetting for me. This poor guy is on a road to nowhere and he doesn't need nor deserve a kick in the gut and that's exactly what Mark Ashton will do.

 

I think the club thought Dean was going to get the majority of the negativity and whilst he will always get some shit from elements of the fanbase, yesterday the fans aimed the pelters at the one behind the guff. The one who appointed LJ, sacked LJ, knowingly caused uproar and dragged out an unprecedented "process". 

 

@Davefevs iirc said the board would make a statement when they made an appointment. I agree. It's not the statement of "we want the Prem tomorrow" but a statement of "Ashton, it's your call this time. On your head, be it." 

 

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

I don’t think Ashton cape across well yesterday and was interviewed excellently by Geoff Twentyman. But if it was Deans decision to appoint him then I don’t really know else he’s going to say when asked that question, also think that’s a positive of him that he recognises that it’s his own team now

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4 hours ago, mjd said:

Is it the cynic in me, 

but if dean fails in the  next 12 months the next management team are all ready here  to step in 

 

Hmm that is an interesting thought. Simpson/Downing like Fawthrop/Burnside

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