Lee Johnson - Evolution of a Manager

[CodeRed]

4 hours ago, tin said:

I'm so glad we're shot of this bullshitter. He's had his entire life handed to him on a plate, was at best an average footballer, and doesn't have a promotion, final or cup win on his CV.

Exactly .....a bullshitting little caant.

The real mystery is why it took 4 years for SL to realise it.

4 wasted years.

4 hours ago, tin said:

 

 

[Davefevs]

Interesting in this piece that he says the best assistants have been managers....yet he’s never experienced being an assistant.

I’ve said it so many times, he’d be better off being an assistant somewhere but I don’t believe he’d ever do that, not even for Pep or Jurgen.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

27 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Oh yes a slight typo, and I suppose you’re shit doesn’t stink

Hahahahaha!

It's "YOUR" 

not "you're"

Hoisted by your own petard has rarely had so much gravitas. 

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Interesting in this piece that he says the best assistants have been managers....yet he’s never experienced being an assistant.

I’ve said it so many times, he’d be better off being an assistant somewhere but I don’t believe he’d ever do that, not even for Pep or Jurgen.

It’s an interesting theory - and I genuinely don’t know the answer definitively to this question, but how many of the managers at this level or the prem have assistants who have been managers? Obviously Holden has Simpson and Downing but what’s the split elsewhere?

As a quick scan, Klopps #2 has 4 months experience, Jody Morris is with Lampard, Mourinho has Sacramento who’s not been a number 1. Ancelotti has big Dunc and his son, Artera has a #2 with 1 year experience and Dean Smith has Richard O’Kelly and Terry. Peps coaching staff is huge and includes Kidd

I wonder if the truth is not that the best assistants have been managers, but the best managers have assistants who they are happy to have challenge them and are prepared to cede to them if needed.

[bpexile]

5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

What's interesting to me is this quote:

"In my experience, the best assistants have had some experience of being managers themselves, because they understand what the manager has been through - winning runs, losing runs, transfer windows, players throwing their toys out of the pram - and what he needs."

That's notably different to the assistants he actually had...

I wonder if that's perhaps that's LJ's way of putting out feelers to be an assistant coach in the EPL ????

[PHILINFRANCE]

53 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Oh, come on .... take a swipe at Lee and his ludicrous bullschiese, just this once?

 

45 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Oh yes a slight typo, and I suppose you’re shit doesn’t stink

Hmmm...

[BCFCinNW6]

2 hours ago, Chappers said:

A good read, clearly intelligent, and some of the techniques are similar to ones I have seen/ used in an office environment. We had some excellent times under him, and he left the club in a much healthier position than when he arrived. 

Intelligent? You think? 

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, Leveller said:

He might not have much success in his record as a manager, but if you refer to his CV, then you presumably include his playing career. He does have a few promotions and a cup win (including an assist for the winning goal) in his playing career. And of course he was instrumental in getting us to the Championship play off final.

 

And there's me thinking it was Christian Roberts with the assist and winning goal........and of course LJ didn't play in that game either!  Maybe he talked Hartlepool into defeat?

 

LJ playing career:

Games played for teams managed by his father 368

Games played for other managers 24

Games played whilst loaned out 15

 

 

 

 

 

[Prinny]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I quite liked reading the piece, there were some nice bits, but boy, was their some BS too.  I don’t think he can help himself can he.  It is a perfect example of self-promotion, unfortunately if you’ve lived through his reign here you see straight through it.  I’m not sure it would impress anyone of a higher standing than BCFC in this country.

It will impress people who don't know him, and don't know that he doesn't do what he says to do. I don't disagree with anything much of what he says, except we know him as supporters. I'm going to be fascinated by his next job. Did he actually learn anything?

"Sometimes as a manager you get to the point where you can’t see the wood from the trees, because you’re so in it."

That kinda sums up LJ as a person to me.

[exAtyeoMax]

13 minutes ago, Prinny said:

It will impress people who don't know him, and don't know that he doesn't do what he says to do. I don't disagree with anything much of what he says, except we know him as supporters. I'm going to be fascinated by his next job. Did he actually learn anything?

"Sometimes as a manager you get to the point where you can’t see the wood from the trees, because you’re so in it."

That kinda sums up LJ as a person to me.

I think Neil Warnock could tell…

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Exactly .....a bullshitting little caant.

The real mystery is why it took 4 years for SL to realise it.

4 wasted years.

 

Yeah I hated becoming a top half team who were at least challenging for the play offs and reached a cup semi final beating numerous prem teams along the way.....

[Curr Avon]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So.....you go and visit an expert in his field with no thought beforehand of its relevance.  Where your PDP (Personal Development Plan) Lee, stating the development need and who / what can help you develop, your objectives, and your post-development implementation plan?

That sums him up.

 

I quite liked reading the piece, there were some nice bits, but boy, was their some BS too.  I don’t think he can help himself can he.  It is a perfect example of self-promotion, unfortunately if you’ve lived through his reign here you see straight through it.  I’m not sure it would impress anyone of a higher standing than BCFC in this country.

That's exactly the type of blue-sky thinking we're looking for.

[Curr Avon]

6 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Yeah I hated becoming a top half team who were at least challenging for the play offs and reached a cup semi final beating numerous prem teams along the way.....

Masochist.

[stephenkibby.]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Hahahahaha!

It's "YOUR" 

not "you're"

Hoisted by your own petard has rarely had so much gravitas. 

God i know i'm really old now and have only 2 CSE'S. Grade 3 English,Geography. but it's like taking a ****** exam when you post on here.

You know some clever **** is going to correct you.

[The Constant Rabbit]

I loved this:

 

"I loved All or Nothing with the Arizona Cardinals and the ‘quarterback whisper’, with the Head Coach (Bruce Arians) pulling the main leader (Carson Palmer) to one side and having a conversation with him on a level of commonality rather than dictating.

I’ve had that as a manager too, with players like Marlon Pack and Bailey Wright at Bristol City, where I had that level of trust with them and knew they were such good professionals that anything they said was coming from a position of wanting the team to do well."

 

Was that when he told them he was flogging them to Sunderland and Cardiff? 

 

Like I said before: There isn't a club in the league that will touch him with a bargepole. he needs to go abroad and win something / anything.

[Curr Avon]

9 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

https://trainingground.guru/articles/lee-johnson-evolution-of-a-manager
 

In case you’re missing him. Decent enough read from LJ about managerial style, data analysis and yes - busy bees.

Thank god I read your post. The title gave the impression that Lee had grown webbed feet.

[CodeRed]

34 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Yeah I hated becoming a top half team who were at least challenging for the play offs and reached a cup semi final beating numerous prem teams along the way.....

18th, 17th, 11th, 8th

Play offs finals....,..nil 

Top 6 finishes.........nil

65 signings, £55M spent, and one top 10 finish to show for all that largess

And left an unbalanced squad with no discernible style of play, a squad that Holden has had to reshape.

Once he"d sold off Cotterill's players we saw what he had to offer.......a 10 minute chat with Pep and a shedload of  bullshit being the highlights 

 

 

[Lrrr]

6 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

18th, 17th, 11th, 8th

Play offs finals....,..nil 

Top 6 finishes.........nil

65 signings, £55M spent, and one top 10 finish to show for all that largess

And left an unbalanced squad with no discernible style of play, a squad that Holden has had to reshape.

Once he"d sold off Cotterill's players we saw what he had to offer.......a 10 minute chat with Pep and a shedload of  bullshit being the highlights 

 

 

I'll say straight up I'm not defending Lee saying he shouldn't have been sacked or anything, it was time but it doesn't stop the fact his time here wasn't a total failure and a waste of 4 seasons as you claim.

2 campaigns where we only fell off at the end of the season (18/19 last 2 games) which was much better then we've had previously in our recent history.

You really want to go into financials? The value of players sold equates to value of players signed so its not as if the club were throwing bucketloads of money at him allowing him a blank cheque. I also notice you use the inflated number for any player bought in under his time here including signings for the u23's side and those who were intended to loan out and not ready for 1st team. This number of players required in his first window here was because of Cotts' mismanagement of a 1st team squad leaving himself with 17 1st team senior players and requiring the squad to be fleshed out. 

You mean once he'd sold off Cotts' players who continued to rise to higher levels underneath him who'd been close to the verge of getting relegated back to league 1? Wonder who it was who had a hand in making sure they were valuable enough to be sold off...? 

Was he City's best manager, definitely not, but he left the club in a much, much better place than we he took over. Either that or Dean Holden is the messiah for being able to turn us into a club again fighting for a play off place if the club/squad was the disaster you seem to claim. 

[ScottishRed]

The man is a Buffon.

I did not want Dean as HC, and I still believe it will end badly but, as a bloke he is hugely likeable.

I hope it works.......It won’t.

[CodeRed]

11 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I'll say straight up I'm not defending Lee 

Says the man who follows on with a lengthy dissertation that stretches history to  politician levels of spin to desparatly defend LJ.

The record books don't lie.

He was shite.

And a bullshitter

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, stephenkibby. said:

God i know i'm really old now and have only 2 CSE'S. Grade 3 English,Geography. but it's like taking a ****** exam when you post on here.

You know some clever **** is going to correct you.

Capital 'I' please and always a capital letter after a full stop in this context.

Bloody Philstine .

[Mr Popodopolous]

His time was up and last season he really lost his way, but there were a number of positives for sure- over the 4 and a half years I mean.

Did we progress in position? Yes.

Did we have Cup runs- Yes that one, plus a little run ie Round 4 in Carabao Cup 2016/17 and onto Round 5 of FA Cup in 2018/19- a game in which we played very well in defeat to Wolves tbh, bit unlucky to lose.

Seems a bit all or nothing really- he had to go and he was probably got rid of too late, was a big, big critic of some of his setup, tactics and selection last season.

When we were early season in 2019/20, with a fair few injuries I was hopeful we might ride the storm and gradually improve keeping results ticking over but also in terms of style and control as players returned- however this did not happen.

For the Cup praise above, we also missed out on a major tie v Liverpool with a terrible performance at Shrewsbury in the replay.

He spent a lot- but I don't see the criticism of the squad quality necessarily, I do think though he didn't know how to get the best out of a lot of them- a number probably even went backwards under him. Plus remember, despite his fairly hefty expenditure, we also recouped a fair bit of cash in the market- it's the nature of this League but it's true that on one hand he got what he wanted yet at the same time had to trade out key assets. It's a strange one, but again you should be able to push on even if losing Brownhill when you add Benkovic, Henriksen and Wells in January and results are okay, you need to build from a position of strength- results good and then build on the foundations of results to improve the performances to make it more sustainable...

...Because we seldom did this last season! Position of strength, we had two windows of opportunity maybe in this respect to build on it and we did not do so! Thinking as I mentioned firstly the early promising results even if patchier performances with underlying stats then adding players of the experience of Benkovic, Henriksen and Wells albeit - Brownhill in January when results picking up again, and again we singularly failed to get the best from the squad!

In fact, now I think about it he had a good opportunity- I remember making a thread about it ahead of Blackburn away after the 3 month halt between March and June to really attack the last 9 games, with a tactical plan that would give us more impetus, control and security- and he failed to do so! Despite coming into it off the back of improved draws vs Millwall and especially Fulham at home in March but then again- that's a small platform from which to build and he just didn't!!

[Robbored]

17 hours ago, petehinton said:

For **** sake

That’s actually the most interesting piece in the article and if LJ can utilise some the methods that these guys use then that’ll involve him developing a whole new set of counselling skills.

[Robbored]

11 hours ago, CodeRed said:

LJ playing career:

Games played for teams managed by his father 368

Games played for other managers 24

Games played whilst loaned out 15

We all know that LJ was fortunate to have a professional footballing career entirely down to his father’s influence.

We also know that he was a bang average player who got selected through nepotism. Better players Like Hartley and Noble were sometimes omitted to accommodate him.

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That’s actually the most interesting piece in the article and if LJ can utilise some the methods that these guys use then that’ll involve him developing a whole new set of counselling skills.

It is interesting, but the fact that he has no idea how he can bring it into his management, suggests it was poorly thought through, with little idea of its objective.

[Lrrr]

40 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We all know that LJ was fortunate to have a professional footballing career entirely down to his father’s influence.

We also know that he was a bang average player who got selected through nepotism. Better players Like Hartley and Noble were sometimes omitted to accommodate him.

You mean Hartley who featured in 40 games (4 sub appearances) and 2 cup games at the age of 33? Hardly expect a 33 year old to play all 46 games in a league season.

[CodeRed]

51 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We all know that LJ was fortunate to have a professional footballing career entirely down to his father’s influence.

We also know that he was a bang average player who got selected through nepotism. Better players Like Hartley and Noble were sometimes omitted to accommodate him.

And a bang average manager who would never been employed by SL due to the paucity* of his CV had his surname not been Johnson.

 

* League 1 finishes of 15th,11th, and he left Barnsley when they  were 12th at the point when SL decided that this was the man  with the track record to lead us to the promised land .  

Add the 15th, 11th, 12th, to his BCFC record 18th,17th,11th, 8th. and I just don't get the love in for him displayed by some posters.

 

 

[Leveller]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

We all know that LJ was fortunate to have a professional footballing career entirely down to his father’s influence.

We also know that he was a bang average player who got selected through nepotism. Better players Like Hartley and Noble were sometimes omitted to accommodate him.

So when he was named player of the season three years on the trot at Yeovil, while they were climbing up the leagues, that was voted for purely by his father? Talk sense. The nepotism charge doesn't work. Yes, he was very lucky to have a father managing the teams he played in, and perhaps those teams would not have bought him otherwise, but he fully deserved his place in the team at both Yeovil and City.

There are arguments against LJ as a manager, but the level of hate on OTIB is beyond dumb at times.

[Leveller]

14 hours ago, CodeRed said:

And there's me thinking it was Christian Roberts with the assist and winning goal........and of course LJ didn't play in that game either!  Maybe he talked Hartlepool into defeat?

 

LJ playing career:

Games played for teams managed by his father 368

Games played for other managers 24

Games played whilst loaned out 15

 

 

 

 

 

Oh right. So the nearly 100 appearances he made in the 2006/07 promotion season and the 2007/08 Championship play off season don't signify? It's irrelevant who the manager was; he was a major part of our midfield in two successful seasons. And he was voted player of the season three seasons running at Yeovil. That doesn't happen if you're useless.

By all means debate his managerial career and style, which are both flawed. But I'm afraid your obvious irrational hatred won't persuade anybody that you are interested in a sensible discussion.

[City oz]

9 minutes ago, Leveller said:

So when he was named player of the season three years on the trot at Yeovil, while they were climbing up the leagues, that was voted for purely by his father? Talk sense. The nepotism charge doesn't work. Yes, he was very lucky to have a father managing the teams he played in, and perhaps those teams would not have bought him otherwise, but he fully deserved his place in the team at both Yeovil and City.

There are arguments against LJ as a manager, but the level of hate on OTIB is beyond dumb at times.

Agree not a bad player in the lower leagues and a fair player when he played in midfield for us. His old man will always be a hero at BS3 and LJ also for a very limited time only. There should be no hate on OTIB against LJ as he did his best but his abilities and foresight was not good enough for us.