Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

IGNORED

19/20 accounts released


Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I don’t doubt there would be, I would just have reservations about how good an owner they’d make, how many would view us as a play thing to try and getting into the premier league for their own gain so to say. 

Personally, I am at a point where if Steve put the club up for sale tomorrow (and don't worry, he won't be, not for a few years at least) I wouldn't be too disappointed. I'd be willing to "twist" and see where a new owner would take us.

Yes, I would be a bit fearful of what the future would hold, but I'd also be excited. The new owners would likely come from one of three places: the far east, the middle east or America. I realise that would make some uneasy, however there are examples of successful owners from all of those places, and I would trust SL to sell to someone "fit and proper" as opposed to an ill-intentioned person/group. 

  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites

Updated:

93262FB8-75E0-42A4-A4DA-9F9A9FB78226.thumb.jpeg.1fbf3b2a2131bf8e1a30580364ba2def.jpeg

As @Sheltons Armysays, look at the increasing cost base.  Frightening.

And here’s my estimate from a few months back.

03ECC9EA-A56D-40D0-ACCC-014627189B8C.thumb.jpeg.0d304343b9efc405867237cd005776ca.jpeg

Not a million miles out.

I’m not apportioning blame, but I wouldn’t be giving much credit either.

Big question for me:-

Is the current squad worth what has been paid to build.

Next biggest question:-

Where is the £25m of transfer profit coming in 20/21’s accounts?  You ain’t getting that without decimating the playing squad.  Forget Semenyo “might” be worth millions in future.

Huge questions on the people running the club at all levels.  And I mean “running” not the owners....that’s a different question.

I feared these accounts, not from an FFP point of view, that’s fine....but current moving to longer term.

Its probably the only time I might feel confident using the word “Fact” in an OTIB post! 🤓

 

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Not sure where you got that figure from?

Will be about half that i reckon. But still if you're only allowing £39m over 3 seasons, completely unsustainable.

Agree - not sure where the 55-60m loss next year is from, though it's still pretty bleak.

My quick straw man maths is £33-35m loss for 20-21 if player trading is flat:

  • With fans in AG our break-even in recent years has required £20m annual profit in the transfer market
  • Our ticket, match day and commercial revenues from AG are c. £17m but AG Ltd has c. £5m staff costs which I guess are substantially reduced when it's not open - so let's say lose £17m revenue but save £2-4m costs = £13-15m loss. 
  • For simplicity assume other C-19 impacts offset, i.e. minor merchandising drop vs new revenue from Robins TV

I assume FFP will make allowances for COVID but it brings the sustainability of Championship football into sharp relief.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Now you're being silly. I am simply putting the losses the club makes in the context of Steve's wealth. 

Some more context for you, his wealth has increased by around £500m since 2015. These are numbers that bring him unimaginable wealth in comparison to most of us. He could give away 75% of his wealth and still afford to run City. 

Sounds like a good person to have in charge.  We should be thankful that he’s so wealthy.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Davefevs said:

Updated:

93262FB8-75E0-42A4-A4DA-9F9A9FB78226.thumb.jpeg.1fbf3b2a2131bf8e1a30580364ba2def.jpeg

As @Sheltons Armysays, look at the increasing cost base.  Frightening.

And here’s my estimate from a few months back.

03ECC9EA-A56D-40D0-ACCC-014627189B8C.thumb.jpeg.0d304343b9efc405867237cd005776ca.jpeg

Not a million miles out.

I’m not apportioning blame, but I wouldn’t be giving much credit either.

Big question for me:-

Is the current squad worth what has been paid to build.

Next biggest question:-

Where is the £25m of transfer profit coming in 20/21’s accounts?  You ain’t getting that without decimating the playing squad.  Forget Semenyo “might” be worth millions in future.

Huge questions on the people running the club at all levels.  And I mean “running” not the owners....that’s a different question.

I feared these accounts, not from an FFP point of view, that’s fine....but current moving to longer term.

Its probably the only time I might feel confident using the word “Fact” in an OTIB post! 🤓

 

My worries too mate. I think I can feel SL’s eyes burning into the back of Ashton’s head from here re Fam’s contract. Can’t feel good releasing these accounts with a £5m+ fee player about to walk out the door for free, + the extra £6/7m also out of contract in the summer. 
 

MA talked about austerity in the summer, I can see this summer being goodbye to Bentley at the least. I think any tangible asset where we have decent enough cover in will go for a decent enough fee. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hampshire Red said:

Whenever money is talked about on this forum SL obviously gets a mention. 

Noone seriously underestimates the fact this is his club which we pay with Heart and money to support. We owe him everything and without him we would have nothing

Just not true though is it?   As has been pointed out already.  We can be thankful to SL but let’s not be hyperbolic. There would be plenty of suitors one would imagine. 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Updated:

93262FB8-75E0-42A4-A4DA-9F9A9FB78226.thumb.jpeg.1fbf3b2a2131bf8e1a30580364ba2def.jpeg

As @Sheltons Armysays, look at the increasing cost base.  Frightening.

And here’s my estimate from a few months back.

03ECC9EA-A56D-40D0-ACCC-014627189B8C.thumb.jpeg.0d304343b9efc405867237cd005776ca.jpeg

Not a million miles out.

I’m not apportioning blame, but I wouldn’t be giving much credit either.

Big question for me:-

Is the current squad worth what has been paid to build.

Next biggest question:-

Where is the £25m of transfer profit coming in 20/21’s accounts?  You ain’t getting that without decimating the playing squad.  Forget Semenyo “might” be worth millions in future.

Huge questions on the people running the club at all levels.  And I mean “running” not the owners....that’s a different question.

I feared these accounts, not from an FFP point of view, that’s fine....but current moving to longer term.

Its probably the only time I might feel confident using the word “Fact” in an OTIB post! 🤓

 

The squad is worth nowhere near the cost of assembly.  Big decisions coming.  Personally, if it was me, I would be trimming the squad, playing the kids and hoping to stay up.  Double whammy then of reducing costs and hopefully a few of them, with game time, excel and become the next sellable assets.  

Open to Alternative suggestions though as given it about 3 minutes thought! 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Olé said:

Agree - not sure where the 55-60m loss next year is from, though it's still pretty bleak.

My quick straw man maths is £33-35m loss for 20-21 if player trading is flat:

  • With fans in AG our break-even in recent years has required £20m annual profit in the transfer market
  • Our ticket, match day and commercial revenues from AG are c. £17m but AG Ltd has c. £5m staff costs which I guess are substantially reduced when it's not open - so let's say lose £17m revenue but save £2-4m costs = £13-15m loss. 
  • For simplicity assume other C-19 impacts offset, i.e. minor merchandising drop vs new revenue from Robins TV

I assume FFP will make allowances for COVID but it brings the sustainability of Championship football into sharp relief.

Steve raised £260m from selling H&L shares last year, so he's got a bit in the piggy bank thankfully. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

My worries too mate. I think I can feel SL’s eyes burning into the back of Ashton’s head from here re Fam’s contract. Can’t feel good releasing these accounts with a £5m+ fee player about to walk out the door for free, + the extra £6/7m also out of contract in the summer. 
 

MA talked about austerity in the summer, I can see this summer being goodbye to Bentley at the least. I think any tangible asset where we have decent enough cover in will go for a decent enough fee. 

Agreed on Bentley with a ready made replacement waiting in the wings

The players out of contract like Paterson and Hunt will surely be offered reduced terms and an instruction to take it or leave it 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Now you're being silly. I am simply putting the losses the club makes in the context of Steve's wealth. 

For what purpose? You clearly have a downer on Lansdown, so pointing out his massive personal wealth, and saying "10 million is loose change for him" only implies that he should do more. If that's not why you are implying, why even mention it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

The squad is worth nowhere near the cost of assembly.  Big decisions coming.  Personally, if it was me, I would be trimming the squad, playing the kids and hoping to stay up.  Double whammy then of reducing costs and hopefully a few of them, with game time, excel and become the next sellable assets.  

Open to Alternative suggestions though as given it about 3 minutes thought! 

I think there’ll be some extreme relaxation on FFP before it comes to that. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Moving forward it means that we are level for the last two accounts. I'm guessing the 20/21 accounts will be horrific. Hopefully the EFL won't be including this season in the projected FFPs for clubs, as would be totally unfair.

 

Really good point.

Ours will be bad enough, but just imagine what W.R. Derby County, for example, will be like ?!

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I would trust SL to sell to someone "fit and proper"

Related to your hypothetical SL sale, a point that always bears reminding:

When people want SL to put money into the club, but then get uneasy with some of the structures buried in the accounting (loans from SL owned companies, converting to equity etc), they need to realise that if SL does not reflect his benevolence in real financial terms, any sale to or investment from outside the Lansdown family, would unfairly dilute the Lansdown's or more simply not reflect the real terms equity value they have in the club's assets. 

SL clearly loves the club but he is also an accountant, and so if anyone were to buy or invest in City, using cash that they've had the fair value of in preceding years (i.e. invested, banked, profited upon), SL is not going to simply give them the benefit of his cash, which he's tied up in the club not at fair value, for free. The loans etc at least put an obligation on a future buyer to address that inequality in valuing equity, before they can truly own the asset.

If you managed to get this far without falling asleep, congratulations, you now know why SL will probably never sell.

  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Agreed on Bentley with a ready made replacement waiting in the wings

The players out of contract like Paterson and Hunt will surely be offered reduced terms and an instruction to take it or leave it 

As other have said, this won't just be affecting our club but plenty of others. They will also be looking at what money they can get by selling players and offering lower wages on contract renewal.

I think we'll find that the constant circle of players wages rising has come to a grinding halt and if some players are too greedy they may well find themselves without a club.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

If only we could go back in time and give a proven manager that squad that Cotts handed over. The finances then and now are worlds apart and whether that’s down to Johnson or Ashton or both, the decisions were Lansdowns and whether you’re a fan of his or not, we should have done better with that change in outgoings. 

I’ll forever say it - Building on that talented and slim squad was our real chance to progress 

Instead we let LJ waste millions on scattergun recruitment with no evidence at any time of an actual plan 

Steves ‘ personal sponsorship ‘  has cost him a lot of money and , and us as a Club stall somewhat

  • Like 12
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alex_BCFC said:

People moaning about SL have no idea about how much it costs to run a club. He isn’t perfect but it’s a damn sight better than a lot of owners.

When there is a queue of investors to take over then no problem.

Sorry Alex but most people are perfectly aware how much it costs.

And it's because people know how much it costs that questions are asked about some of Lansdown's decisions. Decisions which appear to make the only way the club can become self-sustaining (promotion to the Premier League) highly unlikely. 

In addition, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the sums being quoted are eye-watering to you and me but they're pin money to Lansdown.

That's not being ungrateful whatsoever, I assure you, just stating the reality of the situation.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else got a feeling once its accepted we're staying in the championship this season we'll see more academy players to see if any can cut it at this level meaning others can leave

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

The squad is worth nowhere near the cost of assembly.  Big decisions coming.  Personally, if it was me, I would be trimming the squad, playing the kids and hoping to stay up.  Double whammy then of reducing costs and hopefully a few of them, with game time, excel and become the next sellable assets.  

Open to Alternative suggestions though as given it about 3 minutes thought! 

I think it’s an option indeed.  In 3 minutes I think it’s the best any of us could come up with.

Pretty sad indictment of the “running” of the club that this might be a way forward.  Hardly fits the agenda of building towards the Premier League.

I’d accept it though Dave, but I’d forever blame the people running the club during “this period” as wasting years / wasting money.

Reality has bitten.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Olé said:

Agree - not sure where the 55-60m loss next year is from, though it's still pretty bleak.

My quick straw man maths is £33-35m loss for 20-21 if player trading is flat:

  • With fans in AG our break-even in recent years has required £20m annual profit in the transfer market
  • Our ticket, match day and commercial revenues from AG are c. £17m but AG Ltd has c. £5m staff costs which I guess are substantially reduced when it's not open - so let's say lose £17m revenue but save £2-4m costs = £13-15m loss. 
  • For simplicity assume other C-19 impacts offset, i.e. minor merchandising drop vs new revenue from Robins TV

I assume FFP will make allowances for COVID but it brings the sustainability of Championship football into sharp relief.

Would be slightly reduced due to reclaiming furlough money? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I’ll forever say it - Building on that talented and slim squad was our real chance to progress 

Instead we let LJ waste millions on scattergun recruitment with no evidence at any time of an actual plan 

Steves ‘ personal sponsorship ‘  has cost him a lot of money and , and us as a Club stall somewhat

That Keith Burt video was a golden nugget wasn’t it?

3 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Anyone else got a feeling once its accepted we're staying in the championship this season we'll see more academy players to see if any can cut it at this level meaning others can leave

Think Holden is already implementing it.  Brunt was a mistake.  Mariappa was different.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Whenever money is talked about on this forum SL obviously gets a mention. 

Noone seriously underestimates the fact this is his club which we pay with Heart and money to support. We owe him everything and without him we would have nothing

Without him, we'd own our own ground, albeit a tired, old school one, for a start

And we'd probably be doing what we've always done, i.e. yo-yo between the 2nd and 3rd tiers.

That's far from "nothing" as you put it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The question is: do you know how much it costs SL to run BCFC in the context of his overall wealth? We have run up a £10m loss in the 19/20 season. SL is worth around £1.72bn. That's 1,720 million pounds, and his wealth is increasing year on year. Suddenly that £10m sounds like a drop in the ocean, doesn't it? 

You are right, he is better than some owners, however his overall achievement at BCFC over the past 20 years versus his investment is well below par. 

Do you seriously think if BCFC went up for sale tomorrow there wouldn't be a healthy list of interested parties? I think there would be. 

It’s peanuts to him. Not really the point - point is that to most it costs a hell of lot of money to run a club and we are lucky someone does that for us and isn’t like a Hull owner.

If there were loads of interested parties they would be enquiring to come on board regularly - SL has always said he would listen to any offers. Someone I expect would take over if he left (all clubs eventually find an owner I guess) but no guarentees they would be better and it could be a lot worse.

I’m thankful he keeps it going and is doing so at the moment. Wouldn’t want to be in position of many clubs right now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That Keith Burt video was a golden nugget wasn’t it?

Think Holden is already implementing it.  Brunt was a mistake.  Mariappa was different.

I mean to a further degree, the likes of Owura getting more significant minutes, seems obvious Pring was due to get some minutes with the lack of options at LB but then also Bell getting more time, Zac Smith, Towler and Pearson getting a chance having been around the squad etc. If even one of them shows they even could cut it at this level then its thousands of pounds a week saved on a different players wages.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Sorry Alex but most people are perfectly aware how much it costs.

And it's because people know how much it costs that questions are asked about some of Lansdown's decisions. Decisions which appear to make the only way the club can become self-sustaining (promotion to the Premier League) highly unlikely. 

In addition, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the sums being quoted are eye-watering to you and me but they're pin money to Lansdown.

That's not being ungrateful whatsoever, I assure you, just stating the reality of the situation.   

Genuinely some people have no clue.

He should always be questioned - no issue with that. He has made a lot of mistakes no doubt. I’m not sitting here thinking he is amazing - however on balance we have been lucky to have him.

We all knows it’s peanuts to him

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

It’s peanuts to him. Not really the point - point is that to most it costs a hell of lot of money to run a club and we are lucky someone does that for us and isn’t like a Hull owner.

If there were loads of interested parties they would be enquiring to come on board regularly - SL has always said he would listen to any offers. Someone I expect would take over if he left (all clubs eventually find an owner I guess) but no guarentees they would be better and it could be a lot worse.

I’m thankful he keeps it going and is doing so at the moment. Wouldn’t want to be in position of many clubs right now.

As a football fan what do you want from out club? Not a dig a genuine question? Because i want a crack in the prem even if it’s just for one season but i literally see no hope 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lrrr said:

I mean to a further degree, the likes of Owura getting more significant minutes, seems obvious Pring was due to get some minutes with the lack of options at LB but then also Bell getting more time, Zac Smith, Towler and Pearson getting a chance having been around the squad etc. If even one of them shows they even could cut it at this level then its thousands of pounds a week saved on a different players wages.

I know you do.  Totally get it too.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no expert on the numbers and others on here have explained what it all mean in detail ...

... but what I'm getting from this is that unless we have a net transfer profit at least 20M per season we are operating at a loss.

If this is true I'm concerned because the only teams spending that kind of money on transfers are in the premier league and I cannot see anyone in our current squad as premier league quality. 

Where are we going to make 20M?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...