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IGNORED

Mark Ashton's full interview with the BP


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5 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

It is how those fees were spent that is essential. Loom at our current squad, look at what it will be this summer with the players out of contract. Look at our wage bill. Look at the value in that remaining squad, and finally look at how we play. If you cannot see the reality, then there is a very rude awakening coming. Ashton is a a disaster and a cancer, and needs removing asap. we are no longer as one as a club, we have lost our soul, we have lost our warmth and empathy. It is horrible to see, because even in some really dark days, we were still a club, we were still together. Today that is no longer true, and that was something that transcended league position. The love, the affinity, the passion and heart has been lost. That is the really sad part. The club now openly lies to the fans. We have two new stands, a shiny look, but over the last years we have lost our soul. That is really hard to take . We need someone to galvanise the club, get everyone on the same page and give some passion and heart back again. Look really hard at what Garry J and Steve C did , the players we signed, then ethos, how we played. These are recent examples, and both had big similarities. We have forgotten the two most successful managers of the last decades and how they achieved success. We are no longer united and there is doubt and scepticism and a total lack of belief and passion. 

Agree with every word, I just cannot understand how many fans can see how employing a non exp manager can get us to the next level. Nothing against Dean but cant see him taking us anywhere.

We are now part of a new plan/dream seems all about the money and fans are just clients who no nothing and are told nothing.....ah well round and round we go seems many are ok with that.

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10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It was a good read in fairness....and although he gave a good account of himself, he’s quite careful / deliberate in what he says.

He didn’t change my view of him.

I think he’s a good administrator, a good “business of football” man.  I never doubt that.

But we have a weakness in recruitment, some of that due to a lack of coherent / consistent playing style....they need to be working together.  Some of it due to lack of the right skills, experience and seniority in that area....which he kind of admits:

“But there comes a point where... there's almost a perception that Ashton signs
the players, Ashton picks the players. You must be joking! I don't see enough
games. We have a recruitment team
and the head coach is involved at stage
one with the recruitment team. So any names on the list that he doesn't like, it
comes off at that point”

that you don’t have the skills yourself, can you honestly believe that an Analayst under the title Head of Technical Analysis can fill the gap that a proper Head of Recruitment can, or a DoF can.  That head of recruitment role has not been filled since Mervyn Day left (sacked?).  Adam Griffin (LJ’s cousin) is / was Senior Scout, and Richard Lee as advisor on transfers.

It suggests Ashton needs to do more doing in that space, because he doesn’t have the right people, and to me I think it’s because he wants the involvement, as his ego needs it.

Who in recruitment challenges the head-coach and who challenges the CEO and Owner?  I’d suggest nobody.

What do others think?

In short, I agree.

There was a predictable lack of probing follow up questions from Gregor.

For instance, if you not do the recruiting why does the recruitment team work to you rather than to the Head Coach or a qualified DoF, and why have you referred before to 'my database'?

Do you accept that the results of an analysis have to be interpreted by a football expert not a CEO?

What happens if the Head Coach rejects your entire list and presents his own?

Why was Day let go and why is there no Chief Scout?

Who decides what profile of player is required?

The list goes on, a missed opportunity with Gregor being Ashton's mouthpiece.

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29 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You can say that again

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35 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

What club are mirroring this Bristol City model? 

No club copies our model as far as I know. We, however, leap from trying to copy the likes of Southampton, Reading, Swansea, Barcelona and now Brentford. Three of those clubs were smaller than us 20 years ago, now we’re light years behind them. 

There’s no clear identity or philosophy. It’s more scattergun and hope, IMO. Nobody seemingly holds Ashton to account and what hope have we got of Ashton scrutinising the recruitment team if his relative runs it or the medical team if his mates run it? 

Edited by tin
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18 hours ago, Lrrr said:

To be honest I like that as its a consistent approach across multiple head coaches rather than ripping the process of the club up every time someone new comes in, plenty of clubs recruit managers who fit their philosophy.

If we had a philosophy you mean. We don’t. I’d agree if we did have one. A philosophy of how we play . From first team down to the u16’s all coached the same way . Recruiting can then be tailored to a specific type of player with a proper succession plan . What we have is a scattergun , cover all bases model, which doesn’t work and you end up wasting millions . The proof being the 67 signings since Ashton has been at the club with very few successes . 

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Just now, steviestevieneville said:

If we had a philosophy you mean. We don’t. I’d agree if we did have one. A philosophy of how we play . From first team down to the u16’s all coached the same way . Recruiting can then be tailored to a specific type of player with a proper succession plan . What we have is a scattergun , cover all bases model, which doesn’t work and you end up wasting millions . The proof being the 67 signings since Ashton has been at the club with very few successes . 

Absolutely - and as I said you also then recruit head coaches to match the playing philosophy - either ones who can and are willing to follow that philosophy , or ideally , coaches who have demonstrated that as their philosophy to date

See the model of most German Clubs (Klopp’s development and the philosophy at Mainz a prime example)

Or closer to home Swansea , Brentford two prime examples , and currently since Farker , Norwich

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18 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Once again when things aren't going overly great on the pitch whatever MA says he will be criticised as has been the case on this thread, what do people actually want or expect him to say?

"You said 'announce Eddie Howe!' Well, here's Eddie!"

"You said we'd never make the play-offs, well, here we are, in the play offs! "

"You said we'd never win the play-offs, well, the players' open top promotion winning glory bus finishing at the Lloyd's amphitheatre starts 10am tomorrow"

"You said we'd never spend any money, well, here's Kevin De Bruyne!"

"You took the piss when Lee said 'Europa in 5 years, well, go back to your keyboards and get ready for the Champions League! Tickets for Juventus at home are £250.00 in the South Stand, £350.00 in the Lower Lansdown, £400.00 in the Dolman. And you get a free pizza with that."

"We've bought all the houses on Ashton Road, even the Coopers!, and we'll be building a monster stand there (for all the Liverpool and Manchester Utd fans)"

"The football club wishes to express our sadness at the folding of Bristol Rovers"

 

Stuff like that ...

 

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16 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

If we had a philosophy you mean. We don’t. I’d agree if we did have one. A philosophy of how we play . From first team down to the u16’s all coached the same way . Recruiting can then be tailored to a specific type of player with a proper succession plan . What we have is a scattergun , cover all bases model, which doesn’t work and you end up wasting millions . The proof being the 67 signings since Ashton has been at the club with very few successes . 

 

13 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Absolutely - and as I said you also then recruit head coaches to match the playing philosophy - either ones who can and are willing to follow that philosophy , or ideally , coaches who have demonstrated that as their philosophy to date

See the model of most German Clubs (Klopp’s development and the philosophy at Mainz a prime example)

Or closer to home Swansea , Brentford two prime examples , and currently since Farker , Norwich

Agreed.

What is our purpose, aim, our ambition?

The 6 Pillars mentioned by SL a while ago is merely a method.

What does City stand for?

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You can say it as many times as you like 😁, but the answer to the question “are 6 of our last 7 permanent signings aged over 30?”, is Yes. Not sure what other interpretation of the word fact there can be. 
It’s not like it’s an insignificant number of signings over an insignificant period. It’s over 4 windows. 
It’s a clear shift away from the model. 
If people want to question the cut off point, ok, let’s include the whole of the summer 19 window. It’s 8 out of 16 players who are over 30. What model?? 🤡 

Edited by Harry
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6 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

It is how those fees were spent that is essential. Loom at our current squad, look at what it will be this summer with the players out of contract. Look at our wage bill. Look at the value in that remaining squad, and finally look at how we play. If you cannot see the reality, then there is a very rude awakening coming. Ashton is a a disaster and a cancer, and needs removing asap. we are no longer as one as a club, we have lost our soul, we have lost our warmth and empathy. It is horrible to see, because even in some really dark days, we were still a club, we were still together. Today that is no longer true, and that was something that transcended league position. The love, the affinity, the passion and heart has been lost. That is the really sad part. The club now openly lies to the fans. We have two new stands, a shiny look, but over the last years we have lost our soul. That is really hard to take . We need someone to galvanise the club, get everyone on the same page and give some passion and heart back again. Look really hard at what Garry J and Steve C did , the players we signed, then ethos, how we played. These are recent examples, and both had big similarities. We have forgotten the two most successful managers of the last decades and how they achieved success. We are no longer united and there is doubt and scepticism and a total lack of belief and passion. 

If Ashton was a genuine CEO and we had a genuine “head of recruitment / DoF” would you be happier?  Or is it “Ashton must go”?

3 hours ago, tin said:

On one hand he said the above, on the other he said “I brought him [Diedhiou] in, let me be clear”. Possibly the most direct contradiction in the interview, so which is it? 

My overarching thought is that the CEO is too involved in the inbound recruitment process.  I think this is an example.

I don’t buy that he chooses the players notion, but he loves being at the centre of it, because it massages his ego.

54 minutes ago, chinapig said:

In short, I agree.

There was a predictable lack of probing follow up questions from Gregor.

For instance, if you not do the recruiting why does the recruitment team work to you rather than to the Head Coach or a qualified DoF, and why have you referred before to 'my database'?

Do you accept that the results of an analysis have to be interpreted by a football expert not a CEO?

What happens if the Head Coach rejects your entire list and presents his own?

Why was Day let go and why is there no Chief Scout?

Who decides what profile of player is required?

The list goes on, a missed opportunity with Gregor being Ashton's mouthpiece.

Yes, the structure is wrong.  We are not a tinpot club where people need to undertake dual roles.  The reason Mervyn Day isn’t around (promoted from Euro Scout to Head of Recruitment) is because it stopped / lessened MA’s involvement.  Let’s not forget this control freak hierarchy goes above MA to SL too.  He has to sign everything off.  Why isn’t the CEO allowed to work with the budget set.

Interesting that Keith Burt as Head of Recruitment was given control of the playing budget.  No way Ashton would relinquish that and I guess that’s why he quickly left his job 2 months after Ashton’s official appointment.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If Ashton was a genuine CEO and we had a genuine “head of recruitment / DoF” would you be happier?  Or is it “Ashton must go”?

My overarching thought is that the CEO is too involved in the inbound recruitment process.  I think this is an example.

I don’t buy that he chooses the players notion, but he loves being at the centre of it, because it massages his ego.

Yes, the structure is wrong.  We are not a tinpot club where people need to undertake dual roles.  The reason Mervyn Day isn’t around (promoted from Euro Scout to Head of Recruitment) is because it stopped / lessened MA’s involvement.  Let’s not forget this control freak hierarchy goes above MA to SL too.  He has to sign everything off.  Why isn’t the CEO allowed to work with the budget set.

Interesting that Keith Burt as Head of Recruitment was given control of the playing budget.  No way Ashton would relinquish that and I guess that’s why he quickly left his job 2 months after Ashton’s official appointment.

The answer to your first question can be answered by knowing the egotistical person as the subject matter. 
No way in the world does Ashton work under a DoF. 
As you rightly go on to point out, anyone with any semblance of a scouting/recruitment background has been quickly disappeared.

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

The answer to your first question can be answered by knowing the egotistical person as the subject matter. 
No way in the world does Ashton work under a DoF. 
As you rightly go on to point out, anyone with any semblance of a scouting/recruitment background has been quickly disappeared.

Ashton would be above the DoF....actually doing what a CEO should do.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ashton would be above the DoF....actually doing what a CEO should do.

@Davefevs - was it you who had an uber chart of City's transfers in and out? Would you mind me having a look at it please, either DM or point me to the thread where it was posted. Ta!

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ashton would be above the DoF....actually doing what a CEO should do.

Not a chance. Do you think he’d let someone else take over his current control. 
It’s ego Dave. As you know. It would be seen as a failure to him. Never gonna happen. Once egotists have power, it’ll never be relinquished. 

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Interesting that Holden told Ashton to move on Morrell as we have Joe Williams, Walsh, Bakinson and Morton we have coming through.

Morton signing a long term contract too. Must be highly rated by the staff and they must fancy his chances of making it with us.

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Interesting that Holden told Ashton to move on Morrell as we have Joe Williams, Walsh, Bakinson and Morton we have coming through.

Morton signing a long term contract too. Must be highly rated by the staff and they must fancy his chances of making it with us.

Though a sensible follow up question would have been if we already had too many midfielders so had to let Morrell go why did we sign Brunt?

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7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Not a chance. Do you think he’d let someone else take over his current control. 
It’s ego Dave. As you know. It would be seen as a failure to him. Never gonna happen. Once egotists have power, it’ll never be relinquished. 

Yep, agree, just pointing out the CEO would be above the DOF in the structure chart.

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10 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

@Davefevs - was it you who had an uber chart of City's transfers in and out? Would you mind me having a look at it please, either DM or point me to the thread where it was posted. Ta!

Yes, DM me your email address, I’ll ping it over.  It’s got some extra data hidden that I’ll explain. 😉

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8 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Interesting that Holden told Ashton to move on Morrell as we have Joe Williams, Walsh, Bakinson and Morton we have coming through.

Morton signing a long term contract too. Must be highly rated by the staff and they must fancy his chances of making it with us.

And I bet he realises he got it wrong 😉

At least you’ve linked Brunt and Morrell, I get fed up of Reading Brunt replaced Smith. 👍🏻

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3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Though a sensible follow up question would have been if we already had too many midfielders so had to let Morrell go why did we sign Brunt?

I think Holden wants a bit more height and physicality in our squad. Like I said in Tom Pearce thread, he seems to want to bring in tall or physical players. 

I don't disagree with this, just maybe got the wrong one in Brunt.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And I bet he realises he got it wrong 😉

At least you’ve linked Brunt and Morrell, I get fed up of Reading Brunt replaced Smith. 👍🏻

I don't think Morrell was going to get given a chance under Holden, so probably was the best decision for everyone. Especially for Joe himself.

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I personally don’t have a problem with Ashton. He is the current scapegoat for anything wrong at the club. Blaming him for the injury list is probably the tip of a ridiculous iceberg. I like Holden and the clubs new focus on the academy and giving younger players a chance. 

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18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I don't think Morrell was going to get given a chance under Holden, so probably was the best decision for everyone. Especially for Joe himself.

He was ahead of some players....but for injury (real injury, not “something going on” injury) he would’ve been back in the match day squad ahead of others.

That’s football, players jump the queue, and have taken their chance.

Currently struggling with the same injury, causing him niggles.  Never been injured before.  Possibly back next week.

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4 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

I personally don’t have a problem with Ashton. He is the current scapegoat for anything wrong at the club. Blaming him for the injury list is probably the tip of a ridiculous iceberg. I like Holden and the clubs new focus on the academy and giving younger players a chance. 

He’s blamed for the injury list because he’s appointed his incompetent mate who has free reign to do what he likes 

 

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Just now, Club and Country said:

He’s blamed for the injury list because he’s appointed his incompetent mate who has free reign to do what he likes 

 

It’s just a ridiculous conspiracy story though isn’t it. Makes no sense at all but people lap it up. 

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36 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Though a sensible follow up question would have been if we already had too many midfielders so had to let Morrell go why did we sign Brunt?

I would guess it’s a case of expected game time, Morrell was wanting a starting place whereas Brunt was coming here knowing he wouldn’t be part of the first choice midfield 

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1 minute ago, Bobbie said:

It’s just a ridiculous conspiracy story though isn’t it. Makes no sense at all but people lap it up. 

I know for a fact, it’s not conspiracy

easy to throw that around on a internet message board etc and I appreciate you/many will think it’s nonsense

hopefully one day we will all find out the truth

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