Davefevs Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Agree with all of that. Too many agents making very well paid careers off of the talent of others. Add to that the youngsters as mentioned by Taylor who don't really want the professional bit, just the lifestyle and you've got a perfect breeding ground for it. Way too much money in football for players who've done nothing yet and too much going out to self serving agents who won't always have the player's best interests at heart. Certainly plenty of opportunity there to improve regulations and standards of agents. Would like to hear more about clubs guiding and educating young players. Taylor seems well switched on to this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Taylor comes across a very switched on individual, refreshing to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 I would liked to have seen more on that. What Taylor was saying was really engaging stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 13 minutes ago, Robbored said: I would liked to have seen more on that. What Taylor was saying was really engaging stuff. Whole thing is a worth a listen if you have time. Agents come up about 20 mins in. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p095f92l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 This is from the new EFL podcast on Five Live. Very good podcast already and only 2 episodes in. Peterborough chairman is very good value, lots of excellent insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 I'll say up front, I don't like agents. I see them as the drivers for making football unaffordable for some people, driving teams to the brink of extinction etc. However, I'm troubled by some of the 5 live conversation. When footballers are adults you can't turn around to them and tell them how they are going to get paid their money. It is all rather patriarchal/matriarchal, will add other layers of cost (someone will have to be paid for looking after their money etc.) and does not help them to learn about money. I'd rather these guys are educated from the start. Not only about money and investments (football is a short career) but they need to be educated about the transfer markets, looking after themselves, looking ahead to after their career is over, how agents work etc. As adults they can then either choose to ignore what they've been taught or take it on board. The other thing is, and this is a generalisation, footballers might not necessarily be the brightest fellas and when it comes to transfers, this allows people to take advantage and it is no wonder that some say 'speak to my agent', they might not have the confidence to have the conversations or actually understand their true worth. This problem is no where as simple as portrayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tin Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Lyle Taylor talks a lot of sense. I recently read an interview with him on BLM. He hit the nail on the head with that as well, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, tin said: Lyle Taylor talks a lot of sense. I recently read an interview with him on BLM. He hit the nail on the head with that as well, IMO. When players do what Taylor did last season they will always get abuse. I do wish more fans would think about things in a calm, rational manner and put themselves in the players shoes. Probably an unrealistic wish seeing as football fans are so tribal in the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: When players do what Taylor did last season they will always get abuse. I do wish more fans would think about things in a calm, rational manner and put themselves in the players shoes. Probably an unrealistic wish seeing as football fans are so tribal in the norm. Lots of people just use football to vent and will admit to being biased/unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 38 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said: I'll say up front, I don't like agents. I see them as the drivers for making football unaffordable for some people, driving teams to the brink of extinction etc. However, I'm troubled by some of the 5 live conversation. When footballers are adults you can't turn around to them and tell them how they are going to get paid their money. It is all rather patriarchal/matriarchal, will add other layers of cost (someone will have to be paid for looking after their money etc.) and does not help them to learn about money. I'd rather these guys are educated from the start. Not only about money and investments (football is a short career) but they need to be educated about the transfer markets, looking after themselves, looking ahead to after their career is over, how agents work etc. As adults they can then either choose to ignore what they've been taught or take it on board. The other thing is, and this is a generalisation, footballers might not necessarily be the brightest fellas and when it comes to transfers, this allows people to take advantage and it is no wonder that some say 'speak to my agent', they might not have the confidence to have the conversations or actually understand their true worth. This problem is no where as simple as portrayed. Definitely! Its not as black & white as they portray it - "my agent will deal with it" is a simple method of imposing a 3rd party negotiation tactic & prevents DMAC from getting naive football players to agree to deals that are necessarily in their interest either. No doubt there are some instances of agents taking advantage of players but this narrative is a massive over generalisation of agents in football. If there were all crap & ripped off their clients/players they would not exist. However, agents abilities will be tested this summer with the transfer market below the PL getting decimated by the income losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erithacus Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 I think the real change occurred around the time the Premiership took over from the League and we lost Division 1. The stampede for the new deal and a slice of the increasing amounts of money being thrown around was, and still is, the prime motivation for many. Wasn't it our friend Mr Warnock who said that every manager in the league has to come to terms with the fact that every clubs has one or two players who are there purely for the lucre. As wages and transfers rocketed, so the rise of the Football Agent grew alongside. The Beautiful Game became a mere backdrop; in these Covid times it is now even more of a purely media event, detached from the origins. It's not a new thing - after all, there are many showbiz types who have had them for generations - but football has proved rich new territory. Agents are now part and parcel of the negotiations as much as players' talents. I can't help wondering if the likes of Glyn Riley, Paul Cheesley, John Galley or John Atyeo had agents in their day. Things were different then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 IIRC when Nicky Maynard signed for us his mum was his agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: IIRC when Nicky Maynard signed for us his mum was his agent. Jermain Defoe (which oddly autocorrected to Deforestation), always had his mum as his agent, when he signed for Spurs, his mum asked if they could add in a goal bonus which might help motivate her boy; to which Redknapp replied, 'Mrs Defoe, with all due respect if the 50k a week won't motivate him, I don't know what will'. Keith Gillespie tells the story of how Sir Alex acted as his agent. https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/utd-podcast-keith-gillespie-reflects-on-sir-alex-acting-as-his-agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 If you were a young footballer that didn't understand the ins and outs of a contract, they are ridiculous in length these days, would you trust the likes of MA to give you a good deal? The need for agents who know finances and legalities came about partly because Clubs would take advantage of players. So it's swings and roundabouts. An evil necessity...just the same for people in the Entertainment industry. There are good and bad in both camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevedon Red Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 All this led me to look up Eric ‘Monster Monster’ Hall. Sadly he died last November. Probably the Most showbiz of all football agents. Apparently he claimed to be the first agent to get goals and appearance bonuses added to contracts. it was also stated that he had a goals bonus added to Dave Beasants deal not realising he was a goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 23 minutes ago, spudski said: If you were a young footballer that didn't understand the ins and outs of a contract, they are ridiculous in length these days, would you trust the likes of MA to give you a good deal? The need for agents who know finances and legalities came about partly because Clubs would take advantage of players. So it's swings and roundabouts. An evil necessity...just the same for people in the Entertainment industry. There are good and bad in both camps. I think the thing is that no one would want to deprive the players of representation, in order to ensure that they are getting the best deal. However, I also think that what many have a problem with is that it increasingly seems that agents act in such a way as to ensure the best pay day for them ( the agent), with storied appearing on the paper that would unsettle a player, cause him to look for a move way etc where a bigger agents fee can be made than on a new contract. Im not au fait with the business relationship between players and agents, and whether all are the same, but certainly at the top end of the game it seems to me that agents' fees are arranged within a transfer on top of the players own terms and payable by a club. If Ive got it wrong then my apologies. In financial services until a few years ago financial advisers were paid a commission by the company with which they placed a clients investments, but the regulator changed this because of concerns that advisers might be tempted to recommend an investment that provided the best commission rate to the adviser rather than that which would be most suited to the client. Since then the client pays his adviser a fee, much as would be the case when using a solicitor. At the moment it feels that in a transfer transaction, once the players contract and transfer fee is agreed, the agent agrees his fee , paid on top by one (or both!) clubs, so as far as the player is concerned his agent come for free ( a bit like a financial advisers commission paid by the investment company to his adviser). If players had to pay their agent 10% ( or whatever the rate is) of their annual income in order to retain the agents services, or a percentage of their own signing on fee in a transfer, rather than the clubs paying, might their attitude change in terms of their relationship with the agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 I often wonder if players, particularly the young ones get any financial mentoring while at a club, apart from that of their agent that is! Even the lowest paid on £500 - £1000 a week are on considerably more than many full.time workers. The lifestyle comes with the money but for 10 - 15 years for most. Is an expensive flat and car so important when for the majority their wages will plummet upon retirement. What I'm saying is - how many get decent advice about investing/saving for the future? (Not including the "get rich quick schemes" from their "mates".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 The sensible bit Taylor said above all else is the bit about paying wages into Trust Funds when you've literally got kids on £10K per week (I won't use the word earning). That is what I would have expected a good Agent to do in all honesty.......................or at least recommend to their Client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 hours ago, downendcity said: I think the thing is that no one would want to deprive the players of representation, in order to ensure that they are getting the best deal. However, I also think that what many have a problem with is that it increasingly seems that agents act in such a way as to ensure the best pay day for them ( the agent), with storied appearing on the paper that would unsettle a player, cause him to look for a move way etc where a bigger agents fee can be made than on a new contract. Im not au fait with the business relationship between players and agents, and whether all are the same, but certainly at the top end of the game it seems to me that agents' fees are arranged within a transfer on top of the players own terms and payable by a club. If Ive got it wrong then my apologies. In financial services until a few years ago financial advisers were paid a commission by the company with which they placed a clients investments, but the regulator changed this because of concerns that advisers might be tempted to recommend an investment that provided the best commission rate to the adviser rather than that which would be most suited to the client. Since then the client pays his adviser a fee, much as would be the case when using a solicitor. At the moment it feels that in a transfer transaction, once the players contract and transfer fee is agreed, the agent agrees his fee , paid on top by one (or both!) clubs, so as far as the player is concerned his agent come for free ( a bit like a financial advisers commission paid by the investment company to his adviser). If players had to pay their agent 10% ( or whatever the rate is) of their annual income in order to retain the agents services, or a percentage of their own signing on fee in a transfer, rather than the clubs paying, might their attitude change in terms of their relationship with the agent? I agree with much of that. However...the sad thing is, as pointed out in the OP...there are young lads that like being footballers and all that comes with that, rather than loving playing football. Some are known to tell their agent to keep looking for moves, better contracts, signing on fees etc. They love the highlife...the cars, the gear, the girls, the pads, Dubai, instagramers...and not so much playing. For some...it's all they've ever done. They become apathetic, never lifted a finger, everything done for them etc. They have just played football all their life. I'd still have the young ens helping groundsmen and cleaning boots, helping the staff at training facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 7 hours ago, Davefevs said: I posted more or less that quote about our oft injured combative centre half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 58 minutes ago, spudski said: I agree with much of that. However...the sad thing is, as pointed out in the OP...there are young lads that like being footballers and all that comes with that, rather than loving playing football. Some are known to tell their agent to keep looking for moves, better contracts, signing on fees etc. They love the highlife...the cars, the gear, the girls, the pads, Dubai, instagramers...and not so much playing. For some...it's all they've ever done. They become apathetic, never lifted a finger, everything done for them etc. They have just played football all their life. I'd still have the young ens helping groundsmen and cleaning boots, helping the staff at training facility. Deli Alli springs to mind.......,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Numero Uno said: The sensible bit Taylor said above all else is the bit about paying wages into Trust Funds when you've literally got kids on £10K per week (I won't use the word earning). That is what I would have expected a good Agent to do in all honesty.......................or at least recommend to their Client. Pretty sure Nile Rangers agent ensured most of his Newcastle earnings were paid in to a trust as he was a liability. What happened to him, last I remember was him getting nicked again whilst at Swindon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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