Holden - sack or keep?

[Dastardly and Muttley]

As I said after Millwall, would any other Championship side take Dean as their manager?

I seriously doubt it.

However, I’d happily take Rowett, Neil or even Ainsworth, the last two managers we’ve faced and the next one to come.

[The Batman]

3 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

As I said after Millwall, would any other Championship side take Dean as their manager?

I seriously doubt it.

Certainly a valid way of looking at it. 

Then again, I expected LJ to not go to a League 1 side, yet he has. 

[Lew-T]

Still gutted we didn’t go for Paul Cook. 

[snodge]

2 hours ago, Langford Red said:

The only good thing about tonight is

We lose here

Then we lose to Wycombe at home

The board has to get rid of the manager

They took a pathetic cheap option, and it is not working like most fans new would happen

We have had many wins this season which we did not deserve

The honeymoon period is over

His excuse is, we have lots of injuries

BULL! Other teams have injuries and the chances at goal has been a total joke, playing across the back 75o/o of the time and hoofing the ball forward to the opponents 

Lets hope when we fail again against Wycombe, the board will realise what a total mistake they made with the choice of manager

His post interviews are a joke praising the opponents all the time

Like LJ its his team his tactics, so stop complaining about injuries that every other team have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

It’s been a long time since I have posted

but I agree with you other than wanting to see city lose

[2015]

55 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Still gutted we didn’t go for Paul Cook. 

Yep, me too. Almost think some fans looked down on him. He WOULD toughen us up and try to get us playing attacking football.

We seriously need to up our scouting network in League 1 and League 2 and find some gems who are ready to step up to the Championship, thats what most clubs do in this League and what we did between 2014 and 2017 really. 

Needs a total overhaul the current set up with a Man who knows what he wants and will go out to get it.

[big dosser]

i dont think alot of people who want dean out understand how hard a job it can be with all the injuries he has had to deal with.one thing he would have learnt is that alot of are back up players is not good enough, I would like to see what dean does in the January window and when he has some of the injured players back.i agree with many that dean was not my choice but i do like his honesty in his interviews, never hides or makes excuses.

[Bedred31]

DH will be gone by mid January. Our horrendous injury list will demand a response, or we’ll find ourselves flirting with relegation. The options basically boil down to sign 7 new players or change the manager- and changing the managers a lot cheaper.

[RobintheRed Red]

On 17/12/2020 at 09:42, petehinton said:

Fans crying out for Paul Tisdale - a manager whose last job was leading a team to 1 point from 27 leading them to bottom of the LEAGUE BELOW. It could only be Bristol City

Yeh done wonders at MKD :laugh: 

[2015]

2 minutes ago, big dosser said:

i dont think alot of people who want dean out understand how hard a job it can be with all the injuries he has had to deal with.one thing he would have learnt is that alot of are back up players is not good enough, I would like to see what dean does in the January window and when he has some of the injured players back.i agree with many that dean was not my choice but i do like his honesty in his interviews, never hides or makes excuses.

It's irrelevant these injuries, he shouldn't have got the job in the first place. Every club has injury problems, take Reading for example, its just we are bias to our own side. Stop putting excuses up, we've been poor all year.

[sglosbcfc]

1 minute ago, 2015 said:

It's irrelevant these injuries, he shouldn't have got the job in the first place. Every club has injury problems, take Reading for example, its just we are bias to our own side. Stop putting excuses up, we've been poor all year.

No other team in the Championship has lost close to the number of first team players we have lost, for the time periods we have lost them, fact.

[Cidre Monita]

Holden should never have ben appointed. The whole football world knows it, But Ashton and Lansdown wanted someone to allow their continued nonsense to cary on unchallenged. People want to argue this point, and I understand why. But we all want the best for BCFC. We really all do. But we are so far from replicating Brentford or Southampton it is criminal. The frustration for many, and many with huge football experience, deep experience, is that with the funding we have, we should not not only be in the Prem but have a clearly defined club structure, a playing strategy and a top level academy. What is currently going on is becoming a scandal. Steve L wants adulation and respect, to obtain that he has to now delver something tangible . Our league position is our historical average. Over 40 clubs have been in the Prem. We are , despite the money spent , a long way fro being a being a Prem club with a clear and sustainable future. Brentford or Bristol City ? No contest. But all we get are excuses and nonsense explanations for the lack of competence. How in the same day compare Holden with Lam . Anyway. All have opinions. I don't think the football club have anywhere near the quality of coaches , experts, scouting and recruitment the budget available allows. 

[2015]

1 minute ago, sglosbcfc said:

No other team in the Championship has lost close to the number of first team players we have lost, for the time periods we have lost them, fact.

It's a terrible excuse, it doesnt matter if we have them fully fit or not, the performances ALL year have been shocking. No difference between LJ and Holden. I like the guy, he seems a decent bloke, but he isn't going to get us where we want to be.

[Ronnie]

Let’s give him a fit full squad to pick from before we get rid of him. Even with a nearly fit full squad rotation and selection would be much easier. I have not checked but does any other team have has many injuries as we have to potential first team players.

 

[sglosbcfc]

2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

It's a terrible excuse, it doesnt matter if we have them fully fit or not, the performances ALL year have been shocking. No difference between LJ and Holden. I like the guy, he seems a decent bloke, but he isn't going to get us where we want to be.

You seriously think that losing 10 first team players is a terrible excuse!!! If you take 10 players from any other Championship team they would start heading down the table, it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

[2015]

1 minute ago, sglosbcfc said:

You seriously think that losing 10 first team players is a terrible excuse!!! If you take 10 players from any other Championship team they would start heading down the table, it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Yes it is. It's a squad game and clearly our squad is showing it isn't good enough. Most teams right now have bad injuries too. 

This is just perfect for Ashton and the Lansdowns giving a perfect excuse for THEIR appointment.

If you seriously think our performances were good in the first 4 games then you are wrong, our luck has simply run out

[Finley_Smith10]

I wonder what will happen if we start losing or keep playing horrible football when fans are back in Boxing Day, fans may start to express their frustrations to Ashton and Lansdown who will be up in the boxes 

[2015]

Just now, Finley_Smith10 said:

I wonder what will happen if we start losing or keep playing horrible football when fans are back in Boxing Day, fans may start to express their frustrations to Ashton and Lansdown who will be up in the boxes 

The fans who are most vocal wont go because they have found better things to do on Saturday afternoons 

[Finley_Smith10]

Just now, 2015 said:

The fans who are most vocal wont go because they have found better things to do on Saturday afternoons 

True, I’ve got a season card but no way am I applying to watch that utter sh**e. 
Maybe the fans showing their emotions could spark a change, Ashton and Lansdown haven’t had direct contact with fans since the appointment at AG yet 

[MarcusX]

39 minutes ago, 2015 said:

It's irrelevant these injuries, he shouldn't have got the job in the first place. Every club has injury problems, take Reading for example, its just we are bias to our own side. Stop putting excuses up, we've been poor all year.

Rubbish, he started well. He deserved the job from what we seen early season. Injuries have hampered him.

[Mendip City]

On 17/12/2020 at 09:27, big dosser said:

i dont think tisdale or Eddie Howe would suit us both to nice, we need a manager that dont take no shit,slaven bilic now available would be a great punt or for me big mick McCarthy uncle Warnock or Mr roy keane

Agree. The only successful managers we’ve had seem to have that sort of edge about them. 

[MarcusX]

30 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Yes it is. It's a squad game and clearly our squad is showing it isn't good enough. Most teams right now have bad injuries too. 

This is just perfect for Ashton and the Lansdowns giving a perfect excuse for THEIR appointment.

If you seriously think our performances were good in the first 4 games then you are wrong, our luck has simply run out

Dean didn't recruit that squad so you cant blame him if our depth is poor

[Superjack]

This is the third time that Steve Lansdown has appointed from within.

The previous two beneficiaries have NEVER taken another managerial appointment.

Doesn't bode too well, does it?

[Olé]

I do agree SL has a track record of hiring people who would get a job nowhere else, and as I've always said, no reflection on the individuals themselves, as it's massively self indulgent of SL and SL alone because it affords him an influence he admitted to under LJ, and will never easily surrender.

With that said, I do feel sorry for Holden. I don't say that easily, I honestly felt hollowed out inside today - nearest to that for me was blowing a 2-0 lead in the rain at Barnsley on a Friday night last season after lots of effort to make it, so I'm not casually backing Holden without perspective.

Today was cruel. Preston exercised their full Alex Neil routine to good effect - regular arm waving collapses yet somehow combined with hypocritical affront to sway the referee if ever the aggressor instead. Talk about cake and eat it. It doesn't excuse our own quality but exacerbates our misery.

To be honest competition for places was a huge catalyst for our results under Holden early in the season - better players all fighting to start is lightyears from what we have now. But that run and accompanying honesty and honour in managing City has earned him goodwill, with me included.

Never mind that the football is now as non-existent and clueless as LJ's worst spells. Combine the sympathy for Deano earned from his heady start as manager, AND getting mugged off by streetwise teams like Preston, and you have a perfect (or toxic?) combination of injustice that really hurts.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm simultaneously aware now that DH is not the messiah nor a particularly qualified coach at this level and that this could quickly become a painfully LONG season, while also acknowledging that he deserves some sympathy, and is dealing with unprecedented challenges.

And isn't that the perfect analogy for our club? Plucky lower tier side where we're going to end up feeling sorry for someone with little chance of taking us anywhere and where we're happy simply because he showed some emotion doing it - or more simply: we're happy as gallant also rans with excuses.

[old_eastender]

Yes the injury situation is horrendous, but that does not excuse really poor game management by Holden again and again. Examples:

0-0 HT against Brum not a great game but COD causing them problems breaking centrally from midfield. Holden then shifts him to play left flank for second half and he becomes a virtual spectator as we lose the game.

Against Millwall, he sets up with Nagy (who had been really good playing in front of the defence and breaking forward) as the ACM, Massengo taking Nagy usual position. Nagy is like a fish of water as ACM, Massengo did pretty well but we miss that box-to-box thrust that Nagy offers. Why not leave Nagy in his usual position, where he has been performing well and play Massengo as the ACM - it's wear he plays for France u21s. At the very least why didn't Holden swap them over when it was apparent after 30 mins that it was not working.

Last night (and for several games) Chris Martin offering us nothing. Obvious move would have been to bring Sam Bell on for 30 mins game time, introduce fresh enthusiasm and pace, but no Holden puts these youngsters on the bench then at most gives them 5 mins game time even when the players on the pitch are playing well below par.  

Said it when he was appointed, Holden was 'part of the problem' under LJ, is not the "breath of fresh air" we needed. Awful internal appointment, like Millan& Tins in years gone by.

Holden OUT

 

[Dastardly and Muttley]

5 hours ago, Superjack said:

This is the third time that Steve Lansdown has appointed from within.

The previous two beneficiaries have NEVER taken another managerial appointment.

Doesn't bode too well, does it?

Fourth, if you count Fawthrop.

[maxjak]

8 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

A good honest interview tonight, I'd say. Whether he's up to this job, I'm thinking long term no. But I find it hard to dislike the man.

There is no denying that DH is a likeable honest manager........but in some ways I wish he was an unpleasant pain in the ass who had us playing good football?   I have no problem with him  as a    great human (Ashtons description, if u remember?) but i do have issues with his tactics and the way he sets up the team.........earlier in the season before we suffered so many injuries, we were still not playing good football, we were just harder to beat?

[MATT BCFC]

Holden hasn't helped himself bit initially promising attacking football. Even before the injuries we were a low block and counter attacking side.

Nothing against this style but don't try and dress it up as attacking football. 

I think we should stick with him and at least give him another transfer window to put it right. 

Like mentioned we have been very unlucky with injuries and I don't have much faith in the board getting anyone better. I honestly think Paul Simpson would get the job. 

[maxjak]

5 hours ago, Olé said:

I do agree SL has a track record of hiring people who would get a job nowhere else, and as I've always said, no reflection on the individuals themselves, as it's massively self indulgent of SL and SL alone because it affords him an influence he admitted to under LJ, and will never easily surrender.

With that said, I do feel sorry for Holden. I don't say that easily, I honestly felt hollowed out inside today - nearest to that for me was blowing a 2-0 lead in the rain at Barnsley on a Friday night last season after lots of effort to make it, so I'm not casually backing Holden without perspective.

Today was cruel. Preston exercised their full Alex Neil routine to good effect - regular arm waving collapses yet somehow combined with hypocritical affront to sway the referee if ever the aggressor instead. Talk about cake and eat it. It doesn't excuse our own quality but exacerbates our misery.

To be honest competition for places was a huge catalyst for our results under Holden early in the season - better players all fighting to start is lightyears from what we have now. But that run and accompanying honesty and honour in managing City has earned him goodwill, with me included.

Never mind that the football is now as non-existent and clueless as LJ's worst spells. Combine the sympathy for Deano earned from his heady start as manager, AND getting mugged off by streetwise teams like Preston, and you have a perfect (or toxic?) combination of injustice that really hurts.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm simultaneously aware now that DH is not the messiah nor a particularly qualified coach at this level and that this could quickly become a painfully LONG season, while also acknowledging that he deserves some sympathy, and is dealing with unprecedented challenges.

And isn't that the perfect analogy for our club? Plucky lower tier side where we're going to end up feeling sorry for someone with little chance of taking us anywhere and where we're happy simply because he showed some emotion doing it - or more simply: we're happy as gallant also rans with excuses.

Great to hear some analysis from you, and good points, well made..............i think we all really miss your away reports, you were always my default setting for how we had truthfully   performed, rather than the journo bluster from everywhere else?

[DT The Optimist]

This is a wonderful thread. Rather than be called ‘Holden out ‘ could have been called ‘Living in cloud cuckoo land’.

After the start to the season when 5 games had obtained 15 points OTIB was gushing with praise for DH, and so many people were openly admitting they were eating great dollops of humble pie regarding his appointment. 
 Now after one bad run, with pretty crap football admitted, the same posters have flipped ?  I am not a happy clapper  by any means ,but last night the second half was so much better, but  balanced by the appalling first half. And the ‘staff’ have got to look at that. Why were we set up so badly first half... Gary Owers asked that in not so many words on Radio Bristol saying the forwards in Martin and Wells should be playing up top... but were getting no service..  the changes he suggested all happened at half time.  Then we played. 

The start of the season we got away with more than a few results. Coventry ran rings round us on day one, apart from last 20 minutes, Forest battered us and Bentley performed heroics,  more recently QPR  the same...... and so on.

so the truth is somewhere in the middle of all this....

DH has a one year deal ?  He has to improve us. If we finish lower half then I suspect his contract will not be renewed ? the merry go round starts again  Thanks for your effort...but he has said, and I agree, that we emerge next year with the well known regulars available  again, the picture will look a lot better.  I agree with that. Judge him when the 10 missing first teamers  are available again..

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Rubbish, he started well. He deserved the job from what we seen early season. Injuries have hampered him.

It’s not just the players injured but the ones who aren’t and are expected to play Tuesday night and Friday night at 100 miles an hour and now under severe pressure to deliver results.

It is far from ideal.