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When will NP get the nod for the job...


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Quite surprised by some already going off NP.

Just like it didn't take a few months of poor coaching by Holden to make these players poor it won't take a few months to get them back to standard. The rot started a few years back under LJ and was continued by his assistant up until a few months ago. Basic football skills were neglected with a ridiculous amount of attention given to innovative ideas, shortening pitches and measuring grass etc etc (otherwise known as bullshit). What we have now is one of the least capable (and confident) footballing group you will ever see at Bristol City and it is no coincidence. 

Now if it takes years to get here then NP can't magically redo that damage in a few months. As most are now starting to see we are in desperate need of a complete rebuild (I've even seen staunch LJ fans say this which makes me laugh given it's mostly because of him we're in this position). The best thing about this though is NP knows this and I think SL does too - hence us appointing someone like NP and hints of money available to spend in the summer. 

NP needs a full season with some backing to be assessed on whether he can improve us. I'm certain not he, nor anyone else, could truly improve  these players over a couple of months. What I hope it has shown SL moving forward is that there are serious risks to choosing rookie managers and that in future he asks himself every time he is recruiting a new manager "Is he sufficiently qualified/experienced for the role I am offering?" and therefore makes damn sure Pearson is appointed as soon as he meets him face to face. 

Edited by dREDful
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10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Exactly - it seems most people think the decision is down to those who run Bristol City FC - Nigel is an experienced geezer - he may even fancy the Sheff Utd gig, and yes I know he’s a Sheff Weds legend and yes I know he has said in the past that he wouldn’t want to live in the city where he works (his family home is in Sheffield) - but that was then, this is now ... Pearson’s future isn’t just down to the top people at our club deciding whether they want to keep him or not - the guy is proven, experienced and successful - he doesn’t need to beg us for a contract extension ... he could easily walk knowing his services would be in demand...

I'm not convinced his stock is high enough for Sheffield United. Obviously Pearson is a big coup for us, but I think recently relegated clubs would be looking elsewhere. 

I'm certain he'll stay anyway. Some posters on here (not necessarily you BS4) seem to be revelling in the idea that he will walk out - then we'll be able to go back to blaming SL/JL/MA or whoever else for a lack of ambition. 

Steve Lansdown has clearly learned from the rugby - he basically said as much in his interview after Holden's sacking. 

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5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

There are no guarantees whoever is appointed but with NP at least he has a decent CV having taken the Foxes out of the Championship and other than Danny Wilson 20+years ago City have not had a proven manager.

During the age between LJ and Deano getting appointed posters were calling for just that - experience. Names like MM and CH were being bandied about and NP falls into that category.  

I see the 2 promotions he has (one from league 1). But all that jumps out to me is strained relationships with owners. I think if i went on the derby forum from around the time he was appointed it would look very similar to this on now. Everyone has opinions and mine is just i can’t see the hype. It’s not down to similar poor performances and results. I hope i am wrong i just can’t jump on the bandwagon based on what i have seen and what i have read etc. It won’t stop me renewing and supporting 

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16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

There are no guarantees whoever is appointed but with NP at least he has a decent CV having taken the Foxes out of the Championship and other than Danny Wilson 20+years ago City have not had a proven manager.

During the age between LJ and Deano getting appointed posters were calling for just that - experience. Names like MM and CH were being bandied about and NP falls into that category.  

It's far too early on Easter Sunday morning for your wind ups. O'Driscoll and Cotterill were both proven - relative to where we were as a club at the time. You could even argue Gary J was too - albeit at a different standard. 

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2 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Why don't you look at recent results?

Because it's not a great barometer. It's not his squad, it's a small sample of games, we still have injuries.

These aren't excuses - they are facts. He can only work with what he's got. If he'd had a full summer window obviously it would be different and judging him would be easier and fairer.

Fans love to make snap judgements for some reason whilst ignoring the context. 

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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14 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Because it's not a great barometer. It's not his squad, it's a small sample of games, we still have injuries.

These aren't excuses - they are facts. He can only work with what he's got. If he'd had a full summer window obviously it would be different and judging him would be easier and fairer.

Fans love to make snap judgements for some reason whilst ignoring the context. 

He has the same injuries as Holden, the same squad...

"Fans love to make snap judgements" says the person making a judgement on his long-term performance with only a few games' evidence.

I'm not saying he's not the right man, it's just he simply isn't being questioned on here. Everyone seems to be having a love in...

Edited by SecretSam
Gender bias
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10 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Yeah, we should probably sack him...

Your argument would carry more weight if you didn't just make things up.

Which bit is he 'making up'? You're blindly attacking him, he's quoting facts.

10 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Out of interest, why is your username fatknacker, the name Middlesbrough fans gave to Lee Tomlin? Are you even a City fan?

Cheers. 

It's called a difference of opinion, maybe look it up and grow up

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1 minute ago, SecretSam said:

He has the same injuries as Holden, the same squad...

"Fans love to make snap judgements" says the man making a judgement on his long-term performance with only a few games' evidence.

I'm not saying he's not the right man, it's just he simply isn't being questioned on here. Everyone seems to be having a love in...

How dare you misgender me! 

Saying we need to show patience isn't making a 'snap judgement' though so that doesn't work. It's taking into account the wider context of our club, our season and the resources at Pearson's disposal. Sure, it would be nice if we'd won every game since we took over but he's inherited a mess of a squad and had no opportunity to shape it. Holden had a transfer window and the ability to spend, hence why it was fairer to judge him quicker. 

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

How dare you misgender me! 

Saying we need to show patience isn't making a 'snap judgement' though so that doesn't work. It's taking into account the wider context of our club, our season and the resources at Pearson's disposal. Sure, it would be nice if we'd won every game since we took over but he's inherited a mess of a squad and had no opportunity to shape it. Holden had a transfer window and the ability to spend, hence why it was fairer to judge him quicker. 

I had no idea, I wholeheartedly apologise (in my defence, you user name is male).

My point is: he has a good record, and he may well be the right person. What I don't understand is the level of uncritical support he's getting, given that he has the same players, the same injuries as the previous manager. So saying "well, look at what he has to work with" isn't really valid, it's no different to Holden. 

My question is, what does he need to do to change things? He hasn't managed it so far, maybe as others say he is stuck with a useless squad and needs to clear out, fair enough. I recall other managers in the past - Jordan (first spell) - doing the same, fairly average at first then a big clear out and a tremendous next season.

It's the blind adulation just because he's a "big name"...I seem to recall our last "big name" was a disaster.

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Who knows what is going on behind the scenes. For all we know, Pearson may have said that he wants to bring in his own assistant as a condition of taking the job and those discussions and negotiations are taking place. You’d like to think his appointment would be confirmed in the next couple of weeks though. 

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I’ve wanted NP here for a long time and hope he will be confirmed very soon.  The recent results at home are of course disturbing to say the least but he has indicated he’s looking at the longer term, certainly seems to want to be here and if as I expect he gets the nod I remain convinced he can bring in key players and build the right squad.

The only thing that’s changed in recent weeks though is Wilder is now available.... just saying.

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18 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's far too early on Easter Sunday morning for your wind ups. O'Driscoll and Cotterill were both proven - relative to where we were as a club at the time. You could even argue Gary J was too - albeit at a different standard. 

I’m not sure why but SC just never did it for me. Sure he got us promoted and normally I’d join in the many SC ‘love-ins’ we see on here but I just can’t. I know he was at Burnley and Cheltenham but that apart I’ve no idea where  else he’s been.

GJ is a decent enough lower league manager as his CV shows but part from one season he was out of his depth in the Championship. He’s at the right level now and doing an ok job. Much easier to intimidate and bully lower level footballers with less ability than fully fledged Championship players.

SoD had an awkward ‘doesn’t suffer fools gladly’ persona and fell out with SL over the Botswana trip. Had he stayed then he would probably have done a decent job but we’ll never know.

 

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18 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I had no idea, I wholeheartedly apologise (in my defence, you user name is male).

My point is: he has a good record, and he may well be the right person. What I don't understand is the level of uncritical support he's getting, given that he has the same players, the same injuries as the previous manager. So saying "well, look at what he has to work with" isn't really valid, it's no different to Holden. 

My question is, what does he need to do to change things? He hasn't managed it so far, maybe as others say he is stuck with a useless squad and needs to clear out, fair enough. I recall other managers in the past - Jordan (first spell) - doing the same, fairly average at first then a big clear out and a tremendous next season.

It's the blind adulation just because he's a "big name"...I seem to recall our last "big name" was a disaster.

Sorry just messing around 

I would argue it is different to Holden because Holden was given a transfer window and was backed (relative to covid). Had Pearson had a summer window, obviously that would be different.

I don't think it is blind adulation, just fans knowing that we finally have an experienced and proven manager - but now we need to back him as do the club. 

We won't go down this year, so the season is a write off. It is however a good chance to play a few young players and let Pearson try things. 

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34 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Why don't you look at recent results?

Yeah, best get rid. Then we can give someone else the rest of the season but obviously if he loses a couple of games that'll be him gone too, can't have that.

It's getting to the point where it literally takes 2 successive defeats for people to start questioning everything about a manager and it's an awful way to be.

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15 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I had no idea, I wholeheartedly apologise (in my defence, you user name is male).

It's the blind adulation just because he's a "big name"...I seem to recall our last "big name" was a disaster.

Firstly PF Is winding you up Sam. He’s a bloke.

Secondly - and this simply my take on Nige - is that at last we have and experienced man at the helm after inexperienced guys like LJ and Deano with no managerial CV to speak of. To me and I guess others there’s a sense of relief that it appears that our club is finally in good hands 

Of course it could all go tits up but that can happen in with any manager at any club.

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34 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Should he 'get the nod'? Results haven't been that great

The results are almost acedemic - we do need two wins, but consider where we are:

We're a frickin shambles of a club at senior team level. Half the players we'd want playing are injured or OOC in the summer. Half the players we have playing are OOC or on short term deals. We have three or four players currently playing who we can even start to build a squad around.

We need someone to oversee a rebuild. Someone who can stop mediocre players being signed, and bring in some quality. Someone who doesn't suffer fools.

Get him signed up.

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57 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Why don't you look at recent results?

I am but I also have enough sense to look at the bigger picture. I have enough nous to know that changing managers every dozen games will not work. I was one of the few that could see at the outset that this squad was nowhere near top 6 material, nowhere near and got slated by some for stating the blindingly obvious. It is also obvious that many players are either not up to giving consistent performances YET or are looking after themselves and know they are on the way out. If people are so blind as not to be able to see that then words fail me.

The fact that you seem scared by a big name is your opinion. But hopefully the Owner doesn’t shit himself on the basis that the last big name was a failure. The acceptance of long term mediocrity and going safe every single time holds this club back.

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34 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Yeah, best get rid. Then we can give someone else the rest of the season but obviously if he loses a couple of games that'll be him gone too, can't have that.

It's getting to the point where it literally takes 2 successive defeats for people to start questioning everything about a manager and it's an awful way to be.

Exactly. The modern football supporter eh? Controversial opinion with no context thrown in. Change the manager every fortnight until one works and don’t worry that the 40 you now have on the payroll will bankrupt you😂

Edited by Numero Uno
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13 hours ago, Fatknacker said:

His record looks pretty ordinary to me and he doesn’t stay anywhere for long, which is often a sign he’s a complicated character. He’s hardly improved things here...tbh it sounds rather like the fewers who are entranced with St. Joey and his notoriety and achievements count for little.

I know this is a minority view but I fear he is just another bag of wind who will fail to exploit the potential of our club...let’s wait and see what his W L D and points look like at the end of the season.

Some scepticism is always wise - this being Bristol City - but try and temper it with some reason, like @GrahamC has done for you.

Will Nige better his magnum opus at Leicester here? No. Does he need to, to be a roaring success here? No. 

Is Nige a better bet than poor Deano? Most likely. He's worth a go, let's see what he does with bringing in his own players. But as that Leicester fan on here, Ostrich something, has cautioned - Nige without Shakespeare and Walsh is no miracle worker.

If we're still bringing in crud though like Ashton has been doing for years now, then Nige will do well to deliver "pretty ordinary" ie midtable.

 

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I have merely cautioned allowing his record with us to be the determining factor in his appointment, if he does well before the seasons end, then in my eyes he will have proved himself. To date he has done little out of the ordinary, in fact a 2 from 7 win rate isn’t even ordinary.

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I'm not convinced his stock is high enough for Sheffield United. Obviously Pearson is a big coup for us, but I think recently relegated clubs would be looking elsewhere. 

I'm certain he'll stay anyway. Some posters on here (not necessarily you BS4) seem to be revelling in the idea that he will walk out - then we'll be able to go back to blaming SL/JL/MA or whoever else for a lack of ambition. 

Steve Lansdown has clearly learned from the rugby - he basically said as much in his interview after Holden's sacking. 

Some good points there PF - and I certainly don’t walk Pearson to walk away, I’ve always rated him - especially at this level

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Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

Some good points there PF - and I certainly don’t walk Pearson to walk away, I’ve always rated him - especially at this level

Yep, I'm certain that if given the funds and time - he can get us top 6 and challenging within 2 seasons. 

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4 hours ago, GTFABM said:

I know this is going to be unpopular but it’s a genuine question. Why does everyone think he is the man to sort us out? Just a quick look through his recent career and nothing jumps out as being massively impressive? I will probably get the “miles better than johnson/holden” which i understand. There is just something stopping me and making me think i don’t get all the hype. 

I’ve read what a few Leicester fans have said - seems the perfect fit for this time 

Maybe we could have expected more, especially home form but I’ve got a hunch he’s the right man 

 

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Posted (edited)

I am pleased I started this thread, some good all round differing views.  

I wish I had listed to the podcast first with SL ( 3 Peeps excellent it was as well) which is featured in another thread/topic.  I guess I would  have answered  my own question.  Seems like SL will be having a face to face with NP in next few weeks and meeting him in person for the first time, then the future will be resolved.

 The only ‘fly on the proverbial ointment ‘ is what happens If we lose another shed full of games before that happens..  

A win a Coventry makes pretty much safe and then like to see NP utilise the playing staff available in match scenarios so he can see those likely to be around next season.  I think it’s most likely NP but not a nailed on certainty..

Edited by DT The Optimist
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It sounds a bit daft but I’m happy that some of the players have shown their true colours . If NP had had the same initial impact that MM has had at Cardiff then it would have done nothing more than paper over the cracks. The squad has been unravelling for a few seasons now . I said it when Holden was in charge , I could see a repeat of the 2013 season . A lopsided oversized squad of largely  shite journeymen players & it was happening again. People looking at a few results & judging NP as not up to it have to realise the size of the job at hand . It’s great that there’s so many OOC  , the squad really does need ripping apart & starting from scratch. We’re weak mentally & physically , it’s crept in over the last few years. It’s embarrassing to watch . 

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6 hours ago, dREDful said:

Quite surprised by some already going off NP.

Just like it didn't take a few months of poor coaching by Holden to make these players poor it won't take a few months to get them back to standard. The rot started a few years back under LJ and was continued by his assistant up until a few months ago. Basic football skills were neglected with a ridiculous amount of attention given to innovative ideas, shortening pitches and measuring grass etc etc (otherwise known as bullshit). What we have now is one of the least capable (and confident) footballing group you will ever see at Bristol City and it is no coincidence. 

Now if it takes years to get here then NP can't magically redo that damage in a few months. As most are now starting to see we are in desperate need of a complete rebuild (I've even seen staunch LJ fans say this which makes me laugh given it's mostly because of him we're in this position). The best thing about this though is NP knows this and I think SL does too - hence us appointing someone like NP and hints of money available to spend in the summer. 

NP needs a full season with some backing to be assessed on whether he can improve us. I'm certain not he, nor anyone else, could truly improve  these players over a couple of months. What I hope it has shown SL moving forward is that there are serious risks to choosing rookie managers and that in future he asks himself every time he is recruiting a new manager "Is he sufficiently qualified/experienced for the role I am offering?" and therefore makes damn sure Pearson is appointed as soon as he meets him face to face. 

The 3PIAP comment that SL didn’t think LJ was ready, but that LJ was very persuasive was a “shocking” (ok too strong a word) revelation for me.  How persuasive was LJ over recruitment too?  SL’s judgement typified by his comment about the Johnsons being friends.

6 hours ago, GTFABM said:

I see the 2 promotions he has (one from league 1). But all that jumps out to me is strained relationships with owners. I think if i went on the derby forum from around the time he was appointed it would look very similar to this on now. Everyone has opinions and mine is just i can’t see the hype. It’s not down to similar poor performances and results. I hope i am wrong i just can’t jump on the bandwagon based on what i have seen and what i have read etc. It won’t stop me renewing and supporting 

Nor do you need to either.  Take your time.  But it doesn’t mean he’s not a good fit either.  (Continued below ⬇️⬇️⬇️)

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Sorry just messing around 

I would argue it is different to Holden because Holden was given a transfer window and was backed (relative to covid). Had Pearson had a summer window, obviously that would be different.

I don't think it is blind adulation, just fans knowing that we finally have an experienced and proven manager - but now we need to back him as do the club. 

We won't go down this year, so the season is a write off. It is however a good chance to play a few young players and let Pearson try things. 

A write off in terms of league status.  And therefore I think he’s experimenting, giving players a chance before making his mind up.

Had we not got those couple of wins after Holden was sacked and sat here only 5-8 points off of Rotherham, I think we’d have seen the usual - let’s grind out some 0-0s, let’s not give anything away first - which is kinda what we did at Boro and Swansea where it worked really well.  But continuing that would’ve lost him the opportunity to see other members of the squad, and meant a more blind summer.

You can happily construe that as giving him the benefit of the doubt.  In many respects I am....but purely from results.  When I listen to him, I see a manager in complete control, not really worried about the result, albeit he’d like to get a home win.  There is no doubt in my mind that he is a significant upgrade in manager calibre, but equally there are no guarantees either.

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21 hours ago, Fatknacker said:

His record looks pretty ordinary to me and he doesn’t stay anywhere for long, which is often a sign he’s a complicated character. He’s hardly improved things here...tbh it sounds rather like the fewers who are entranced with St. Joey and his notoriety and achievements count for little.

I know this is a minority view but I fear he is just another bag of wind who will fail to exploit the potential of our club...let’s wait and see what his W L D and points look like at the end of the season.

And so it begins...

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