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Am I the only one with doubts?


SecretSam
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I think we (the fans) have to get behind NP and make it clear to the club that we want HIM to be able to start rebuilding the team. Which will take time. So we'll need to be patient. The alternative - that NP goes - will give the initiative back to the previous way of thinking. That, for me, would be a disaster.  

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Unless the club has already decided on another person , SL did say they had other longer term ideas for head coach , then they had better get NP sorted ASAP before he changes his mind . No , current results are not acceptable and do give everyone a pause for thought . But with 12 out of contract , others injured , and safety almost in the bag , the club is drifting and has few relishing the last games apart from those getting a playing chance . Essentially too many don’t give a damn . Others don’t want an injury to hamper a summer move .  If it’s not NP it does not change the mess we are in , and any time gained now in preparing  summer is golden . Otherwise Ashton will continue signing the rubbish that has got us in this mess . 

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11 hours ago, GrahamC said:

You seem to think we are on course to lose every game we have left whilst the likes of Wednesday & Rotherham (who have 4 games in 8 days coming up) go on unprecedented winning runs.

errm....

 

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In the end, it is going to come down to an act of faith, or not.

However much I might want Pearson to stay for next season, the reality is the results do not justify it and - were Pearson a caretaker manager with no pedigree - the rational response would be that he has not done enough to warrant the long term deal.

Part of that is a misfortune of being on a short term contact. Gary Johnson obviously lost nine in a row when he took over and I remember some awful performances under Cotterll in his early days. Leyon Orient away particularly comes to mind. Both manages turned it around. 

I'd like Pearson to stay but that involves the board and fans trusting that his track record over the evidence before our eyes. I hope he stays but it is a leap of Faith to trust someone to deliver who has really not done so to date. 

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2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

In the end, it is going to come down to an act of faith, or not.

However much I might want Pearson to stay for next season, the reality is the results do not justify it and - were Pearson a caretaker manager with no pedigree - the rational response would be that he has not done enough to warrant the long term deal.

Part of that is a misfortune of being on a short term contact. Gary Johnson obviously lost nine in a row when he took over and I remember some awful performances under Cotterll in his early days. Leyon Orient away particularly comes to mind. Both manages turned it around. 

I'd like Pearson to stay but that involves the board and fans trusting that his track record over the evidence before our eyes. I hope he stays but it is a leap of Faith to trust someone to deliver who has really not done so to date. 

It is clear to all of us this 'injury plagued'  squad is simply NOT good enough...and you cannot lay that on NP door.  You cannot convert a donkey to a race horse. He must use this time between now and end of season wisely and he will learn more and more.  It will be even worse if it left to someone else mid summer.   No, NP is our option, and he said himself leaving decisions till summer is too late.  Planning must be starting now. 

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2 hours ago, billywedlock said:

 Otherwise Ashton will continue signing the rubbish that has got us in this mess . 

It is NOT just MA, although he gets all the stick... he 'signs of deals' but remember LJ said only players were signed who he agreed with, and wanted.? And Holden himself said he wanted Williams, who has done nowt ! 

Hopefully end of season it will be NP driving forward with who he wants here...  lets all wait and see how this pans out.. 

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1 minute ago, DT The Optimist said:

It is clear to all of us this 'injury plagued'  squad is simply NOT good enough...and you cannot lay that on NP door.  You cannot convert a donkey to a race horse. He must use this time between now and end of season wisely and he will learn more and more.  It will be even worse if it left to someone else mid summer.   No, NP is our option, and he said himself leaving decisions till summer is too late.  Planning must be starting now. 

I don’t buy that - well not entirely anyway.  This squad is better than the performance we saw today, and has shown itself capable of some decent results.  That squad, playing to the best of their abilities, should be capable of better.   Something is very wrong, and you cannot put it down simply to the quality of the players.  How many internationals did we have on show today?

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10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

In the end, it is going to come down to an act of faith, or not.

However much I might want Pearson to stay for next season, the reality is the results do not justify it and - were Pearson a caretaker manager with no pedigree - the rational response would be that he has not done enough to warrant the long term deal.

Part of that is a misfortune of being on a short term contact. Gary Johnson obviously lost nine in a row when he took over and I remember some awful performances under Cotterll in his early days. Leyon Orient away particularly comes to mind. Both manages turned it around. 

I'd like Pearson to stay but that involves the board and fans trusting that his track record over the evidence before our eyes. I hope he stays but it is a leap of Faith to trust someone to deliver who has really not done so to date. 

Essentially NP needs to report the facts to SL.  SL has intimated they’ve spoken recently.

I would fully expect a full debrief between NP and SL tomorrow, but I think MA has to be involved too.  If NP reports openly and honestly (no reason why he shouldn’t) then it’s up to SL and MA to allow him to act, or he might as well leave straight after.

NP needs to be allowed to banish certain players immediately with the board’s full backing.  That’s just a simple, “don’t bother reporting for training”.  He’s already resorted to using the kids, which he didn’t want to.

It can’t get any worse without NP ending his time here.

I can’t believe I’m sat here tonight thinking we might lose NP.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Essentially NP needs to report the facts to SL.  SL has intimated they’ve spoken recently.

I would fully expect a full debrief between NP and SL tomorrow, but I think MA has to be involved too.  If NP reports openly and honestly (no reason why he shouldn’t) then it’s up to SL and MA to allow him to act, or he might as well leave straight after.

NP needs to be allowed to banish certain players immediately with the board’s full backing.  That’s just a simple, “don’t bother reporting for training”.  He’s already resorted to using the kids, which he didn’t want to.

It can’t get any worse without NP ending his time here.

I can’t believe I’m sat here tonight thinking we might lose NP.

I said the same tonight - i think unless there are some pretty big guarantees then NP may just walk away at the end of the current contract 

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11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

As I said on the other post, he could really have set us up for 0-0s and got through to the end of the season.

He’s told us he knows there is good fight in this bunch, so he’s ticked that box.

So he knows he can resort to that if he wants.  But he wants to see other stuff, so it’s all a bit experimental as he preps for next season.  It’s a test and learn.  If it takes 7 defeats to get us ready for next season, so be it.  

 

Dave, the landscape has changed! He's now told us that there isn't fight in this bunch, and I'm not convinced we could manage a 0-0!

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11 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I said the same tonight - i think unless there are some pretty big guarantees then NP may just walk away at the end of the current contract 

I think he wants to sort it out, but he can’t really do that without knowing he’s her for the longer-term.

I’m now wondering whether Friday’s comment “summer might be too late” wasn’t wholly aimed about his future, but more about sorting this shower of shit out now.  He might go in guns blazing with “I’m sorting this lot out whether I’m here or not in the summer”.  They are dragging the club down whoever is in charge.

What a mess.

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3 minutes ago, mozo said:

Dave, the landscape has changed! He's now told us that there isn't fight in this bunch, and I'm not convinced we could manage a 0-0!

There isn’t a fight in some of them.  Only takes one or two to make a team look really bad.

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

There isn’t a fight in some of them.  Only takes one or two to make a team look really bad.

The problem is that it's infectious. Just look at Massengo who started well but when the game turned to shit, his own game dropped to the level of the others. Fortunately he's willing to bust a gut to impact the game even when his passing is off, which can't be said for many of them.

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53 minutes ago, mozo said:

The problem is that it's infectious. Just look at Massengo who started well but when the game turned to shit, his own game dropped to the level of the others. Fortunately he's willing to bust a gut to impact the game even when his passing is off, which can't be said for many of them.

Yep worked his socks off today, but made a few awful passes.  Still one of our top 3 players again today. Some never reached the heights for their game to go downhill.

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NP is a great appointment, and I hope he stays.

But it is s hard for him at the moment, without his 'own men'.

Hence Simpson signing.

he needs to know who are in 'cliques' , who's doing the shit-stirring in the dressing room.

The bullies, the drinkers, the gamblers - the wrong 'uns basically.

The players aren't mugs - they will show NP the face they think he wants to see.

NP has the impossible job of seeing the players REAL core in a short space of time.

 

He needs his own trusted team - coaching, tactical, medical. Opinions he can trust.

 

At the moment he is alone in a hornets nest, with only Simpson to keep an extra eye out for 'shenanigans' 

 

SL needs to promise, and deliver a 3 year deal, complete autonomy over hiring and firing of all staff - because the rot is embedded in all of them. Not just the players.

The dreadful media mob, Downsy, sorry, even Scotty is part of the problem, he's been turning a blind eye to god knows what over the years.

NP needs to clean house from boot-studder to CEO.

 

If he doesn't get that guarantee, he wont stay, as there will be NOTHING he can do to change the incestuous comfy circle-jerk that BCFC have been for the last 40 years.

40 years of utter mediocrity.

Sign him up, give him the power he needs to do his job, or he will be gone less than an hour after SL says 'no'

 

This club is a cess pit. It needs draining.

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9 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

It is NOT just MA, although he gets all the stick... he 'signs of deals' but remember LJ said only players were signed who he agreed with, and wanted.? And Holden himself said he wanted Williams, who has done nowt ! 

Hopefully end of season it will be NP driving forward with who he wants here...  lets all wait and see how this pans out.. 

Well he was quoted in an interview last week, proof on video , that "I signed " . No "we signed"  , no " club signed " but " I signed " . He deserves the stick he gets. More so for the dire contractual situation the club got itself into with far too many players. I used to be of your viewpoint, but over time it has become clearer how it actually worked. 

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I think Steve Lansdown will be waiting to make sure we are safe from relegation before appointing Nigel Pearson.

Then he will be asking the following questions.

1) Why did Dean Holden and LJ get more out of the squad than NP is?  Yes, it was mostly dreadful football but they did get better results. 

2) Will NP be able to do an effective job without his usual support team (coaching and recruitment)? 

3) If not are the personnel (available? 

4) Is Danny Simpson's recruitment an indication of the type (age and character) that NP will recruit?

5) Can he work effectively with the budget available?

I'm impressed with NP but all the above are reasonable and sensible questions to look at before committing?  I think if he can bring in Shakespeare and Walsh  then it's a proverbial no-brainer, but, if not, then I'd want to know who he wants to bring in - his targets for new players and new support staff - and then decide.

 

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Haven't we been here before though?

Coppell turned up and left after realising he couldn't work with the Club.

SoD came in and realised how much of a absolute shambles behind closed doors it was...tried to sort everything out to the detriment of results...but what became obvious was he didn't suffer fools gladly.

LJ was the best fit...as he agreed to everything. 

In his tenure after a good start, we changed tact and created a scatter gun approach to recruitment. For the past three seasons statistics were/are showing we are playing badly, riding our luck...the stats, as well as our eyes saying we are on a fast spiral downwards and showing relegation form and performances.

The interview that Barton gave about the Gas being run poorly could easily be said about us.

Focus on infrastructure and 'business' rather than on the pitch.

Imo...the rise of MA, poor recruitment, poor appointments and a ridiculous amount of injuries that can't be a coincidence over two seasons screams incompetence.

We could easily go down next season, and be close to relegation this...can't see another win coming, so depends on others results. 

But we are relaxation fodder...and the warning signs have been screaming at us for at least 2 seasons.

The Ostrich really has had its head in the sand. 

Must be embarrassing as an owner talking about promotion when the stats show most likely relegation.

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This is a bit of guesswork on my part.. and it's always a cliche thrown around when things are going badly.. but I feel we've recruited too many 'nice' players over the years.

O'Dowda, Taylor Moore, Vyner, Massengo, Palmer, Famara - they're all players we recruited in a similar timeline and the recurring theme is that they seem like very nice young men. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that per se. There's clearly some exceptional talent in that group. But I wonder whether we've got the correct mix of personalities. A bit of conjecture - but perhaps Lee Johnson thought they'd be easier to manage. He seemed to struggle managing the likes of Tomlin (ok, obviously a very difficult and childish man) but you get the point. 

Within the more senior players - Kalas, Hunt, Baker, Martin, Lansbury - there does seem to be a bit more aggression about them, but only Kalas and Hunt either play regularly or have been here for a significant amount of time. Out of those two, only really Kalas is someone I think is a top level champ player who we'd look to keep.

Compare to the 14/15 side and the recruited players. Lots of those players were young guys at the time - but there seemed to be a bit more fight and needle about their personalities. Ayling, Little, Freeman, Pack, Flint, Wilbraham and Smith were all fairly feisty characters in their own right.

It's important to stress that we don't know their personalities and only get an insight in interviews etc, but I think there's a reasonable amount you can grasp from them. 

My gut feeling is that Liam Walsh is a bit different and potentially Joe Williams too. Both seem a bit niggly and aggressive. I think actually Adam Nagy has this too. 

Hopefully Pearson can see this - my guess is right then obviously he'll have identified it and hopefully he can address it. 

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On 05/04/2021 at 06:37, Lanterne Rouge said:

This.

Fans: `We must have an experienced manager, no more rookies`

Club appoints an experienced manager

Some fans (after five minutes): `Not that experienced manager, he`s no good, we need a different one`

I didn't call for an experienced manager. And you have no doubts, after so many losses?

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6 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I didn't call for an experienced manager. And you have no doubts, after so many losses?

My doubts aren't really about Pearson. You could say it's reasonable to have expected a 'new manager bounce' - even if statistically it's been debunked. 

The factor that reassures me is that it's clear from his interviews he can see the issues. Under Holden, we had plenty of pashun, talk about "going again" and "looking at ourselves in the mirror" but it's just vapid and had little substance. 

My doubts are mainly about whether he will be given the autonomy and funds to turn things around and how quickly a turnaround will be expected of him. I think it's far more reasonable to judge him on results next season, but success will depend on how he's able to strengthen. 

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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I was not a fan of Pearson - never wanted him perhaps one of the few. We got him and what a start, all my City cohorts pointing out my idiocy. Fact is I am not sure a shouter is what we need. We need a tactician. He blames the players (fair enough), however he IS the manager, he DOES see these people and he DOES pick them - and then they go out and don't bother?

We wont go down - so lets get to end of season and have a re-think - if he is the answer so be it personally I won't be sorry if he goes.

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What I don't understand is this argument that the squad is solely to blame when it's the same squad (near enough) that was winning games at the beginning of the season. The manager has changed and even with an experienced manager like Pearson we continue to struggle, we have better training facilities, better infrastructure and a solid stadium but can't win home games. I think the real issue is deep seated in the club, Ashton for a start! If Pearson stays on then Ashton needs to be removed from the transfer dealings, or at least given a list of people who Pearson wants and told to ensure they join rather than Ashton and co choosing who to sign and lumping them on the manager.
I think it's fair to say that all of our fans would agree that we're light in the middle when it comes to strength, leadership and a driven attitude. Massengo may have all the talent in the world, Bakinson looks promising too, but neither of them are leaders, neither of them are strong in a tackle or in imposing themselves on the opposition. This is something we've been crying out for, for a long time, and still do not have and in selling Pack and letting Smith go we've missed them incredibly in the middle. If Ashton is doing recruitment then this should have been identified before we let them both go and whilst Williams may have been intended to replace them he is only one player and once he was injured we were left with no-one to play that role.

I don't blame the players solely, I blame the club as a whole. Ashton is not a footballing man, he is a recruiter, he should not be in the main seat for running our transfer dealings, that should be at the very least a secondary role behind the man chosen to lead the club, the manager. 

I also have issue with our training staff, not all but obviously some. Set pieces for example, how can we concede so many set pieces if our training staff and players are up to the level they need to be? We never used to concede so many with largely the same defence and here we are as one of the worst teams at defending set pieces. I think this comes back to the original issue of a lack of strength and battling types on the pitch and also the poor training of how to deal with these situations. 

By in large I think the club has far more issues than the squad alone, I think we need to shift a fair few both on and off of the pitch and at the very least change some backroom staff roles.

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14 minutes ago, Spike said:

What I don't understand is this argument that the squad is solely to blame when it's the same squad (near enough) that was winning games at the beginning of the season. The manager has changed and even with an experienced manager like Pearson we continue to struggle, we have better training facilities, better infrastructure and a solid stadium but can't win home games. I think the real issue is deep seated in the club, Ashton for a start! If Pearson stays on then Ashton needs to be removed from the transfer dealings, or at least given a list of people who Pearson wants and told to ensure they join rather than Ashton and co choosing who to sign and lumping them on the manager.
I think it's fair to say that all of our fans would agree that we're light in the middle when it comes to strength, leadership and a driven attitude. Massengo may have all the talent in the world, Bakinson looks promising too, but neither of them are leaders, neither of them are strong in a tackle or in imposing themselves on the opposition. This is something we've been crying out for, for a long time, and still do not have and in selling Pack and letting Smith go we've missed them incredibly in the middle. If Ashton is doing recruitment then this should have been identified before we let them both go and whilst Williams may have been intended to replace them he is only one player and once he was injured we were left with no-one to play that role.

I don't blame the players solely, I blame the club as a whole. Ashton is not a footballing man, he is a recruiter, he should not be in the main seat for running our transfer dealings, that should be at the very least a secondary role behind the man chosen to lead the club, the manager. 

I also have issue with our training staff, not all but obviously some. Set pieces for example, how can we concede so many set pieces if our training staff and players are up to the level they need to be? We never used to concede so many with largely the same defence and here we are as one of the worst teams at defending set pieces. I think this comes back to the original issue of a lack of strength and battling types on the pitch and also the poor training of how to deal with these situations. 

By in large I think the club has far more issues than the squad alone, I think we need to shift a fair few both on and off of the pitch and at the very least change some backroom staff roles.

How is Ashton to blame for on-pitch performance??

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On 06/04/2021 at 09:54, SecretSam said:

How is Ashton to blame for on-pitch performance??

Because he's largely picked the players. A manager knows how to create balance, we have a squad that has very little to no balance at all! 

Diedhiou is a great player but then we signed Wells because we needed a prolific striker and if you take Wells and Famara and put them into a system that suits them they'll both individually shine and score, however, they do not fit well in a single system as they don't compliment each other. Just look at Norwich and Brentford, they have the top two goalscorers in the league and they play to those strikers strengths by playing a single striker with solid supporting players around them, we on the other hand have very little to no identity because our best players have been sold off and the ones brought in don't offer the same qualities. We sold Brownhill and never replaced him, our midfield is weaker than ever and Ashton is the one behind that. I'm not saying that he could have kept Brownhill but I am saying we needed another player like him, just as we need another midfielder who is stronger and can battle but instead we've got weak, easy to built midfielders. Ashton is responsible for this mish mash of a squad that does have talent, just not where its needed to have balance on the pitch. 

The fact that we have someone like Pearson as our manager and even he can't get a performance shows how poorly this squad has been built. 

Wells, Fammy, Massengo, Bakinson, Palmer, Walsh... these are all players who could shine in the right system and with the right players around them, however, we've got a squad of players who mostly have poor partnerships with those around them. There is a reason our team line ups change so much and that's because we're looking for a system where partnerships will compliment each other, instead we just have players who don't connect because they're missing the kinds of players that they need around them. Massengo should be allowed more freedom to go forward but to do that you need a player capable of filling in behind him who can pick off passes and put in challenges, we don't have that as Williams has barely played and apparently having more than one player in that key role isn't in Ashtons plans. If we play with a front 3 then we need wider, creative players, not a central striker such as Wells or a center forward like Semenyo. Fammy isn't going to score goals with that partnership and nor would Wells of you switch roles. Now we have O'Dowda who is hit and miss but could play that wide role but again we didn't use Eliasson in that position where he would shine and so he was sold leaving us without that option. 

Ashton has amassed a squad that is parts of different systems and styles and now we don't have a starting 11 with a balance, hence even someone like Pearson his struggling now the confidence is down. 

I hope Pearson is kept on, I hope he's given the reigns to release and replace backroom staff and rebuild the balance of the squad because until we have a major change this type of poor form will just continue and the only wins we'll get are when we come up against teams more disjointed than we are. 

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