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IGNORED

Are we coming up to a seismic time for the club?


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2 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Smiley face at the end was meant to indicate that it was tongue in cheek comment - I doubt that anyone could match RR’s “relationship” with GJ!

In fairness, I get that you feel the club is in a mess ( Pearson not yet being appointed full time being symptomatic of that) as I alluded to in the OP, with many issues in need of resolution just now.

For what it’s worth, and as touched on by another poster in this thread, I think one of the problems ( among many!) that Pearson has had to contend with is that there are probably players with serious commitment/attitude issues but he cannot bin them as he might like to do because injuries have limited his options, and continuing to play players who perhaps don't want to be here is dragging the rest of the team down with them.

The fear is, and its becoming bigger and bigger, is if the club does indeed get relegated. We will truly be in a mess then, and that would show nothing but the appointment of Pearson as being a huge mistake. 

That is the worst case scenario of course. But it is a real one. 

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11 minutes ago, Atticus said:

What difference is it making? We are being wanked every game no?

More shots on target, more corners, better shape, no square pegs in round holes, three good wins, a rare draw, and most importantly an understanding of the job at hand, what needs to change and how to go about it.

The only time we've been "wanked" this year was at Watford, under Holden, and it had been coming for a long time. That was our biggest defeat in 12 years (losing 6-0 at home to Cardiff).

If you can't see the players, all of whom were signed by Ashton, are the problem, there's no point continuing this debate. 

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3 minutes ago, Atticus said:

The fear is, and its becoming bigger and bigger, is if the club does indeed get relegated. We will truly be in a mess then, and that would show nothing but the appointment of Pearson as being a huge mistake. 

That is the worst case scenario of course. But it is a real one. 

Yeah, because that will be the managerial appointment that has naused this season up...!!!

FFS

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2 hours ago, Atticus said:

He has been proven elsewhere. But is it under the same circumstance as here? These results imo are alarming. You would expect a new manager to bring in a fresh impetus, a fresh bounce, some new ideas, especially one as experienced as we have.

But we are utter dross. 

Johnson got 4 years and yet a Manager  with Pearson's CV you are ready to give just 2 months. Let us all hope that Lansdown does not have such a blinkered and short term  view of City's future and signs him up as soon as possible. He can then set about building a team as he did at Leicester. I seem to remember that team didn't do too bad 

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39 minutes ago, Atticus said:

I would of expected an experienced manager at a higher level to be able to eek out that extra bit from our players. 

That doesnt seem to be the case though.

Sadly, as much as everybody would hate to admit it, hindsight is showing at this stage, maybe sticking with Holden would of been an option that wasnt so worse. Shal I say.

I’d quite confidently state that had Holden still been here we’d still be stuck on 39 points and in 20th position. 
 

Whilst results and performances haven’t dramatically changed (how could they with a sub-standard group of players), the one thing that has changed under Pearson is the competence of tactics. Holden was changing formations about 37 times every match, players had zero idea of their roles, the tactical substitutions involved chucking on all the strikers you possibly could, the match debrief was “look in mirror and go again”. 

Yes, results and performances aren’t too much different, but the professionalism and awareness of what needs fixing is worlds apart. 

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1 hour ago, GasDestroyer said:

Seismic is probably an understatement. If you were SL and you sat the players down and said “right guys, what is the problem, tell me?”

Some of the excuses/answers would be -

1.  No direction/team strategy for the last 2 seasons

2. Unsure who the future manager will be in a few weeks time

3. Unsure who the future owner/CEO/chairman will be

4. Unsure if I will get a new contract

Quite frankly, the club appears to be in a shambles currently and is lacking in direction from the top. NP may not be the messiah but to me it is obvious that he will give direction. And in time, performances will improve.

 

Every reply to which I would respond ; effect the things you can, give yourself the best chance possible for your future, either here or elsewhere , but show your quality on and off the pitch and behave like a winner. 
 

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3 minutes ago, Atticus said:

The fear is, and its becoming bigger and bigger, is if the club does indeed get relegated. We will truly be in a mess then, and that would show nothing but the appointment of Pearson as being a huge mistake. 

That is the worst case scenario of course. But it is a real one. 

What I don’t understand is why you seem fixated that NP must be the cause of our current predicament, rather than just another of the victims of it?

I’d be really interested to know who you reckon would be better placed to convince a large group of players who know they have no future with club, that they should pull their collective fingers out and fight for a club who they obviously don’t give a f c u k about??

 

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16 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Every reply to which I would respond ; effect the things you can, give yourself the best chance possible for your future, either here or elsewhere , but show your quality on and off the pitch and behave like a winner. 
 

and keep checking your bank accounts you overpaid shower

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24 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Yeah, because that will be the managerial appointment that has naused this season up...!!!

FFS

Well hindsight is a wonderful thing eh.

Again, my point being a larger one. Under Holden maybe we could of kept a semblance of structure and core values. I worry its kind of being torn apart more now. 

15 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

What I don’t understand is why you seem fixated that NP must be the cause of our current predicament, rather than just another of the victims of it?

I’d be really interested to know who you reckon would be better placed to convince a large group of players who know they have no future with club, that they should pull their collective fingers out and fight for a club who they obviously don’t give a f c u k about??

 

Absolutely never said he is the cause. Ever.

What im saying is its becoming increasingly likely that he is not the one that can fix it. 

As I said in an earlier post, the problems started with appointing Holden in the first place. Heck, you could say the problem started with Ashton!

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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The man's been in charge for 8 games and doesn't even know if he'll be here in four weeks time. He has limited options due to injuries. It's not unreasonable to give the current players, including the wasters, at least a few opportunities. I would suggest that after his post-match interview on Monday, a few have lost their final chance and won't be seen again in a Bristol City shirt.

Eight games in which wasters have had full games several times. In eight games its not realistic to outline a bigger picture, it is realistic to put in place the non negotiables for the now. Mr Pearson if he is straying could be putting in place his values now, and already started. 

My point however was about motivation. Its demotivating for players to see players with mindsets that do not face the challenges and are flighters not fighters on the pitch. Seeing players with poor mindsets rewarded with starting positions undermines the team ethic. Weakness and inconsistency breeds mental weakness and inconsistency.  

Its disappointing to see Mr Pearson repeating the same. His choice. Wholly predictable outcomes ...

 

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3 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Well hindsight is a wonderful thing eh.

Again, my point being a larger one. Under Holden maybe we could of kept a semblance of structure and core values. I worry its kind of being torn apart more now. 

Absolutely never said he is the cause. Ever.

What im saying is its becoming increasingly likely that he is not the one that can fix it. 

As I said in an earlier post, the problems started with appointing Holden in the first place. Heck, you could say the problem started with Ashton!

Totally take your point re claiming NP being the cause, but given the exceptional circumstance here, I honestly don’t think anyone is going to get a performance out of this shower as it stands.

I think you’d see a very different picture if SL confirmed NP’s contract, then asked him to name the players who are basically taking this club for mugs.

Pound to a penny it would be some of the ooc players.  If they aren’t going to put in a shift for us and have no professional pride, they sre a destructive influence on the rest of the squad.

I assume their contracts end around June, so they should be shown the door now and removed from the club ..... lance the boil so to speak.  

I know we have injuries, but if we can’t manage then to put out a team of 11 players who actually want to play for this club, then we really are in the shit!!!

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18 minutes ago, tin said:

More shots on target, more corners, better shape, no square pegs in round holes, three good wins, a rare draw, and most importantly an understanding of the job at hand, what needs to change and how to go about it.

The only time we've been "wanked" this year was at Watford, under Holden, and it had been coming for a long time. That was our biggest defeat in 12 years (losing 6-0 at home to Cardiff).

If you can't see the players, all of whom were signed by Ashton, are the problem, there's no point continuing this debate. 

Indeed that is the most important bit.

Second is that NP is under no illusion that results are also important.  He appears to be rapidly coming to a conclusion that trying to get a tune out of the time-wasters is a waste of time, as it drags everyone down.

His next step is deciding whether to banish them and play the kids whilst potentially damaging those kids in the process if he goes that way.  Fine balancing act.  He’s trying to do the right thing imho, the responsible thing.

And NP is calling that out....and placing some urgency on it.  Simpson and Downing initially said the same, hence why NP came in (quickly)., NP is just confirming the same.

SL listened to Simpson and Downing.  If he was hoping NP would come in and find it was all hunky-dory, he’s guessed wrong.

What is does highlight that it’s been gradually getting worse over time.  It really doesn’t take too many players to cause the problems we are seeing, especially when those players know they won’t be here next season.  Those players will influence others that are staying too.

Its up to SL now.

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2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me? And without the sarcasm please. I'm always ready to accept other's views and to learn from my mistakes and errors.

At almost every company that I've worked at, even the accountants have acknowledged that a company headed by an accountant, will be too cautious in it's outlook for the future. That doesn't mean crazy gambling but in all businesses and even ordinary life, there are times to take a chance rather than sit on one's hands. Far too often, it appears that SL does the latter. He sits at the crossroads rather than make a decision.

That is why a club like Norwich will soon be getting their seventh promotion to the top tier since 1970 while were last there forty years ago.

@SecretSam over to you.

Calm down. An FD or CFO at s major organisation will be far more strategic than you suggested. Your post made out that all they did was record transactions; that is absolutely part of their role, but is merely book keeping.

Financial management is about working with other strategy leaders to vision the future financial scenarios if different approaches, and ultimately make sure that the business remains a viable (and legal) concern. 

They are not, contrary to perceived thinking, the bean counters who say "no". They are the people who are responsible for managing risk and ensuring everyone has a job.

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For me the worst thing is that our owner has said his son will not take the club forward and he is looking at an exit strategy

Until the ownership question is more settled we will be in limbo.

SL will want to survive in the Championship with the lowest spend possible (understandably) and this is not exactly the best time to be looking for ethical and honest investors

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I genuinely think DS was a “mole in the camp” signing.  Reporting back to NP the things that go on when the manager isn’t there.  He needs an outsider as none of the existing staff and players are his.

As much as there is logic to this thinking I don't subscribe to it.  The reason being that it blatantly looks like it is, and therefore players would also see that and therefore won't be themselves around Simpson enough for it to be effective.  It nullifies itself in its obvious nature.

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1 hour ago, oldstandrobin said:

yep @SecretSam over to you

 

I spent over 20 years as a Publican and used to have stock checks by an accountancy led company ( It was my pub not a breweries) Every time they would say I was not making the right % GP on this and that and I should sell product X and Y for an increased price. As this would have meant increasing 'say Stella or Kronenbourg '  I would have lost sales as punters would have taken their business elsewhere. Bottom lines to an Accountant mean different things to those actually doing the job or have you found a secret formula ?????????

Oh dear. The person who does the stock check is equivalent to the CFO.

That's like equating a first aider with a nurse.

Maybe educate yourself on the difference between operations and strategy before spewing out ignorant dross.

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Indeed that is the most important bit.

Second is that NP is under no illusion that results are also important.  He appears to be rapidly coming to a conclusion that trying to get a tune out of the time-wasters is a waste of time, as it drags everyone down.

His next step is deciding whether to banish them and play the kids whilst potentially damaging those kids in the process if he goes that way.  Fine balancing act.  He’s trying to do the right thing imho, the responsible thing.

And NP is calling that out....and placing some urgency on it.  Simpson and Downing initially said the same, hence why NP came in (quickly)., NP is just confirming the same.

SL listened to Simpson and Downing.  If he was hoping NP would come in and find it was all hunky-dory, he’s guessed wrong.

What is does highlight that it’s been gradually getting worse over time.  It really doesn’t take too many players to cause the problems we are seeing, especially when those players know they won’t be here next season.  Those players will influence others that are staying too.

Its up to SL now.

I was just about to post similar. I don't know what else there is to try. All the player permutations have been tried and as you said, playing the youngsters might do more harm than good. I think we have to expect to lose the remaining six games (what a thing to have to say) and hope we have enough points.             As an aside, I'm not convinced that all the players aren't trying; most of them just aren't good enough. Nige has a tough job.

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4 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Oh dear. The person who does the stock check is equivalent to the CFO.

That's like equating a first aider with a nurse.

Maybe educate yourself on the difference between operations and strategy before spewing out ignorant dross.

you are an over opiniated person aren't you, what do you do for a living ?

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2 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

you are an over opiniated person aren't you, what do you do for a living ?

I am a strategic planner in the healthcare industry.

And a qualified accountant.

I work with CFOs and major organisations all the time.

So it's an opinion based on experience.

Your qualifications to comment are?

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Just now, SecretSam said:

I am a strategic planner in the healthcare industry.

And a qualified accountant.

I work with CFOs and major organisations all the time.

So it's an opinion based on experience.

Accountant, that tells me all

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1 hour ago, Atticus said:

I would of expected an experienced manager at a higher level to be able to eek out that extra bit from our players. 

That doesnt seem to be the case though.

Sadly, as much as everybody would hate to admit it, hindsight is showing at this stage, maybe sticking with Holden would of been an option that wasnt so worse. Shal I say.

I appreciate your point of view but as you can see you've had quite a few responses from different posters that, shall we say, differ from your opinion which would suggest that quite a few people see things differently.

What I would add is that from my point of view I have seen a general improvement in team & individual performances [which the respected Dave Fevs alluded to]. So that has to be down to the experience of NP. He has implemented a better structure and considering none of these players bar DS are his players he has steadied the ship by and large. BUT the caveat is that he's working with the existing playing squad and until that can be changed it is reasonable to expect that we will still have indifferent performances until the end of the season, so unfortunately we have to expect more of the same.

It was all falling apart for Holden, hindsight is a wonderful thing but anybody could clearly see he was out of his depth from a very early stage. He had to go. The real question is why it was offered to him in the first place.

Considering that NP HAS clearly had an affect on the playing side, he has already demonstrated what he can do working with what's at his disposal in an injury hit, confidence drained squad.

When peoples views differs its very easy to ridicule, I've seen it so many times on here [& been guilty of it myself!]; constructive debate is far better. None of us like to admit being wrong, but taking on board various comments and points of views from others helps to vary and develop opinion which in turn makes us all better informed.

We all want results to improve overnight but Nigel Pearson is no Paul Daniels. Let's hope he doesn't have to do his Harry Houdini impersonation come the end of the season! 

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2 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

As much as there is logic to this thinking I don't subscribe to it.  The reason being that it blatantly looks like it is, and therefore players would also see that and therefore won't be themselves around Simpson enough for it to be effective.  It nullifies itself in its obvious nature.

That’s fine....you may well be right.

Could be as simple as Hunt ain’t staying, I need a RB.

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4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The man's been in charge for 8 games and doesn't even know if he'll be here in four weeks time. He has limited options due to injuries. It's not unreasonable to give the current players, including the wasters, at least a few opportunities. I would suggest that after his post-match interview on Monday, a few have lost their final chance and won't be seen again in a Bristol City shirt.

Exactly. He basically said so.

I think Bakinson was already on that bus.

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4 hours ago, Atticus said:

I would of expected an experienced manager at a higher level to be able to eek out that extra bit from our players. 

That doesnt seem to be the case though.

Sadly, as much as everybody would hate to admit it, hindsight is showing at this stage, maybe sticking with Holden would of been an option that wasnt so worse. Shal I say.

That is by far and away the most stupid thing that I have read on here in a long time.

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