No more Flying Donkeys...

[spudski]

....sadly Chievo Verona are no more. 

A village of 4500 population that graced Serie A for many years.

Always loved the banter between Hellas Verona and Chievo. 

Imagine Chipping Sodbury being in the Prem and City where they are now. It's a similar scenario.

Sadly got relegated to Serie B, couldn't afford to run team, demoted to Serie D because of it, and couldn't find a backer.

Gone...

The dream of getting to the top often ends up damaging smaller clubs long term it seems.

I guess we have a slightly smaller scenario going on locally with FGR and the Gas.

[GrahamC]

I know Hellas Verona fans hated them because with absolutely minimal resources they caught them up & for a while were the better side in the city, which incidentally is absolutely beautiful, along with Salamanca probably the nicest one I have ever visited..

So a bit like if Rovers got some super wealthy Jordanian owner who bankrolled success after success for those plucky South Gloucestershire minnows.

Only that bit didn’t actually ever happen.

[italian dave]

I believe they got kicked out of Serie B before the season started because of their breaches of financial regulations. Derby must be grateful they play in a country where blind eyes are turned to that sort of thing.

Relegated to the fourth tier but that left their financial position unsustainable.

Hopefully another club will grow out of the ashes. Castel di Sangro had a similar experience as a club from a tiny town that made it to Serie B, but were bankrupt 10 years later. They've now reformed - albeit they are still in the 6th tier. The Miracle of Castel di Sangro is one of the best football related books ever in my view. 

[Globe Trotter]

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I believe they got kicked out of Serie B before the season started because of their breaches of financial regulations. Derby must be grateful they play in a country where blind eyes are turned to that sort of thing.

Relegated to the fourth tier but that left their financial position unsustainable.

Hopefully another club will grow out of the ashes. Castel di Sangro had a similar experience as a club from a tiny town that made it to Serie B, but were bankrupt 10 years later. They've now reformed - albeit they are still in the 6th tier. The Miracle of Castel di Sangro is one of the best football related books ever in my view. 

Thank you for reminding me of this, an excellent book and I will read it again if I can remember where it has been the last few years!

[Major Isewater]

I thought this meant that from now on the Gas would be travelling by coach to away games up North. 

[spudski]

33 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I believe they got kicked out of Serie B before the season started because of their breaches of financial regulations. Derby must be grateful they play in a country where blind eyes are turned to that sort of thing.

Relegated to the fourth tier but that left their financial position unsustainable.

Hopefully another club will grow out of the ashes. Castel di Sangro had a similar experience as a club from a tiny town that made it to Serie B, but were bankrupt 10 years later. They've now reformed - albeit they are still in the 6th tier. The Miracle of Castel di Sangro is one of the best football related books ever in my view. 

Indeed...a fantastic read, as is Tim Parks 'a season with Verona'.

51 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I know Hellas Verona fans hated them because with absolutely minimal resources they caught them up & for a while were the better side in the city, which incidentally is absolutely beautiful, along with Salamanca probably the nicest one I have ever visited..

So a bit like if Rovers got some super wealthy Jordanian owner who bankrolled success after success for those plucky South Gloucestershire minnows.

Only that bit didn’t actually ever happen.

I love Verona... gorgeous City. 

Only downside is the open racism shown there. Actually witnessed an old lady spit at a black woman selling on the street.

And people think we've got it bad in this country....

[redrum]

I have a couple of Hellas supporting friends in Verona, one contributed quite a bit to 'A season with Verona' . Chievo is a very odd place, makes Barrow Gurney look like a metropolis.

And yes @GrahamC what a stunning city Verona is to visit

[Bristol Oil Services]

Had heard from @EnclosureSurge that they were down in the 'D' but the little blighters have gone the way of Bradford Park Avenue then?

Old Surge knows a couple of Hellas Verona tifosi - they've been here to watch us - no doubt they'll be enjoying this over their cappuccini this morning 

[Bristol Oil Services]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Indeed...a fantastic read, as is Tim Parks 'a season with Verona'.

 

Not for the woke-hearted, that book. Good for learning how to swear and abuse in Italian.

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

Only downside is the open racism shown there. Actually witnessed an old lady spit at a black woman selling on the street.

And people think we've got it bad in this country....

 

Yep. You never see it here like you see it in Italy.

When we had an apartment-share off Lake Transimeno, I used to take the bus into Perugia on occasions and the drivers would routinely drive past any bus stop that had black or obviously North African people waiting at it.

I had a black mate from London who married a girl from Lucca. He said he'd never really been aware of much racism when he was growing up in Manchester, but in Italy the guys in the tabacchi would all mutter deprecations under their breath after he'd made a purchase at a kiosk. 

[spudski]

27 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Yep. You never see it here like you see it in Italy.

When we had an apartment-share off Lake Transimeno, I used to take the bus into Perugia on occasions and the drivers would routinely drive past any bus stop that had black or obviously North African people waiting at it.

I had a black mate from London who married a girl from Lucca. He said he'd never really been aware of much racism when he was growing up in Manchester, but in Italy the guys in the tabacchi would all mutter deprecations under their breath after he'd made a purchase at a kiosk. 

It's another level...tbh, the majority of Europe is imo. 

I think Tammi Abraham will find it so in Rome as well. First thing I thought when he signed for them.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

It's another level...tbh, the majority of Europe is imo. 

I think Tammi Abraham will find it so in Rome as well. First thing I thought when he signed for them.

Provided he can score frequently enough he should be OK with Roma's generally left of centre support. Could be in for a real rough ride though with Lazio's tendency for fascist support 

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Indeed...a fantastic read, as is Tim Parks 'a season with Verona'.

I love Verona... gorgeous City. 

Only downside is the open racism shown there. Actually witnessed an old lady spit at a black woman selling on the street.

And people think we've got it bad in this country....

Yes, enjoyed that too. 

It's certainly more open there, as you say, and not helped by the fact that - for example - newspapers still mention the background of offenders who are black - "assault by a Moroccan aged xx" - in a way they'd never think to mention if they were white.

I wonder if it's something to do with the fact that black immigration (in numbers) was a thing of the 50s and 60s here but its much more recent there - it's almost like they're several decades behind. As a result the social and economic contrasts are still far more stark - it's still very unusual to see a black face if you go out and eat in a restaurant, they are always the ones selling the fake Gucci bags outside.

Mind you, they can be just as prejudiced about their own countrymen - the first time I went to Verona we were going on down to Puglia the following week, and the guy at the hotel where we stayed was seriously trying to put us off going, telling us how unsafe we'd be and what awful people Southerners ("Africans") were. Although when we got to the South they had no more time for Northern Italians ("Germans")!!

1 hour ago, spudski said:

It's another level...tbh, the majority of Europe is imo. 

I think Tammi Abraham will find it so in Rome as well. First thing I thought when he signed for them.

He's picked the right one of the two Roman clubs though.

[spudski]

47 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Yes, enjoyed that too. 

It's certainly more open there, as you say, and not helped by the fact that - for example - newspapers still mention the background of offenders who are black - "assault by a Moroccan aged xx" - in a way they'd never think to mention if they were white.

I wonder if it's something to do with the fact that black immigration (in numbers) was a thing of the 50s and 60s here but its much more recent there - it's almost like they're several decades behind. As a result the social and economic contrasts are still far more stark - it's still very unusual to see a black face if you go out and eat in a restaurant, they are always the ones selling the fake Gucci bags outside.

Mind you, they can be just as prejudiced about their own countrymen - the first time I went to Verona we were going on down to Puglia the following week, and the guy at the hotel where we stayed was seriously trying to put us off going, telling us how unsafe we'd be and what awful people Southerners ("Africans") were. Although when we got to the South they had no more time for Northern Italians ("Germans")!!

He's picked the right one of the two Roman clubs though.

When I've spoken to my Italian friends about it, it's become apparent that they are very traditional and want to keep things as 'Italian' as possible. As you probably know...it goes even deeper, from region to region. Keeping Italian traditions and regional traditions.

As we know Italy is a hotch porch of cultures, but they still want to keep things 'traditional'.

I get the impression in many instances, it's not so much about the colour of the skin...but the culture they belong too.

Each Italian I know has all said the same thing to me... They wish to come to the UK to see what they consider 'traditional' UK as it's been sold to them or remembered. Each one has visited and said it was sad how we had now become a melting pot of different cultures, and that the 'traditional' UK had disappeared.

I've heard this from other nationalities too. So it's not just Italians. They say they feel sorry for us.

A lot of countries want to keep how they are without mass immigration diluting ' the norm'.

It's an interesting subject. At some point in the future the UK will be a place of many different cultures, not one being larger than another. We'll be the Bassett's all-sorts of the world.

I'm not sure if it works tbh. As if you speak about such subjects you are seen as racist.

It's not the colour of people's skin that's the problem, it's the difference in culture. 

How we treat, woman, children, animals, sex, religion, etc....just a few.

We are asked to live together, but I know it goes against the grain with some people on how different cultures live.

Many countries fight it...we are in general very accepting.

Will the world eventually become just a melting pot of different cultures, with no distinction between countries anymore. Traditions completely diluted?

I guess the likes of Australia are trying to do their bit to stop that in their country.

 

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

When I've spoken to my Italian friends about it, it's become apparent that they are very traditional and want to keep things as 'Italian' as possible. As you probably know...it goes even deeper, from region to region. Keeping Italian traditions and regional traditions.

As we know Italy is a hotch porch of cultures, but they still want to keep things 'traditional'.

I get the impression in many instances, it's not so much about the colour of the skin...but the culture they belong too.

Each Italian I know has all said the same thing to me... They wish to come to the UK to see what they consider 'traditional' UK as it's been sold to them or remembered. Each one has visited and said it was sad how we had now become a melting pot of different cultures, and that the 'traditional' UK had disappeared.

I've heard this from other nationalities too. So it's not just Italians. They say they feel sorry for us.

A lot of countries want to keep how they are without mass immigration diluting ' the norm'.

It's an interesting subject. At some point in the future the UK will be a place of many different cultures, not one being larger than another. We'll be the Bassett's all-sorts of the world.

I'm not sure if it works tbh. As if you speak about such subjects you are seen as racist.

It's not the colour of people's skin that's the problem, it's the difference in culture. 

How we treat, woman, children, animals, sex, religion, etc....just a few.

We are asked to live together, but I know it goes against the grain with some people on how different cultures live.

Many countries fight it...we are in general very accepting.

Will the world eventually become just a melting pot of different cultures, with no distinction between countries anymore. Traditions completely diluted?

I guess the likes of Australia are trying to do their bit to stop that in their country.

 

 

 

 

Italians might do well to remember that many of them are of Greek, Albanian, Dalmatian, French, Lebanese, Jewish, Arab, Gypsy, Spanish or Jewish ancestry.

The idea that the national characteristics and genealogy of Western Europe has been unchanged before the advent of Third World migration to Europe is one of the big myths believed by those ignorant of history.

We are all "mongrels". 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Italians might do well to remember that many of them are of Greek, Albanian, Dalmatian, French, Lebanese, Jewish, Arab, Gypsy, Spanish or Jewish ancestry.

The idea that the national characteristics and genealogy of Western Europe has been unchanged before the advent of Third World migration to Europe is one of the big myths believed by those ignorant of history.

We are all "mongrels". 

Totally agree. We all are to some degree. The 'traditional' stance seems to only go back a couple hundred years if that. 

I very much air on the side of learn the language and respect the culture of a country you go to. Why else would you go to that country to live if you didn't like their culture?

It annoys me when Brits turn up to the likes of Spain, create a little Britain, never learn the language, just eat British food, don't join in with the locals etc etc 

Just because it's sunny and cheaper

 

 

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

Totally agree. We all are to some degree. The 'traditional' stance seems to only go back a couple hundred years if that. 

I very much err on the side of learn the language and respect the culture of a country you go to. Why else would you go to that country to live if you didn't like their culture?

It annoys me when Brits turn up to the likes of Spain, create a little Britain, never learn the language, just eat British food, don't join in with the locals etc etc 

Just because it's sunny and cheaper

 

 

My wife and I were the only two of our small group of Brit friends in central Portugal who bothered to learn the language. We enjoyed real conversations with our neighbours and the mickey taking in places like hardware shops just like the banter I had in England at work and now in local builders, plumbers and so on. The locals really appreciated our efforts to join in!

[PHILINFRANCE]

9 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

My wife and I were the only two of our small group of Brit friends in central Portugal who bothered to learn the language. We enjoyed real conversations with our neighbours and the mickey taking in places like hardware shops just like the banter I had in England at work and now in local builders, plumbers and so on. The locals really appreciated our efforts to join in!

I have lived in France since 1985 - a brief sojourn in the UK excepted - and, of course, I speak fluent French, as does my wife.

A few years ago, an English ex-colleague of my wife, a well educated, intelligent young lady, contacted my wife to say that, together with her two young children, she was intending to accompany her husband on a three year contract in Paris, and would be grateful for some advice and assistance as to how best to settle and integrate.

We devoted a lot of time and effort trying to help them, but they knew best, enrolled their children in ‘English’ schools and left, three years later, speaking barely a word of French.

What a waste.