BanburyRed Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Nadine Dorries rattling on about protecting 'the integrity of the game' with these sanctions against Chelsea and Abramovich - ..........hmmm, really? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said: It's not realistic to imagine this act might be misused in that way. Firstly the optics would be impossibly bad. And secondly any such ministerial decision would be subject to JR. They can't just go round saying you or I have links to Putin - it's just not doable. Save that's what they have just fine to certain individuals. So where to draw the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, View from the Dolman said: Their is also the statement of reasons that forms part of the Sanctions List (https://ofsistorage.blob.core.windows.net/publishlive/UKSL/UKSanctionsList.html "Roman Arkadyevich ABRAMOVICH (hereafter ABRAMOVICH) is a prominent Russian businessman and pro-Kremlin oligarch. ABRAMOVICH is associated with a person who is or has been involved in destabilising Ukraine and undermining and threatening the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine, namely Vladimir Putin, with whom ABRAMOVICH has had a close relationship for decades. This association has included obtaining a financial benefit or other material benefit from Putin and the Government of Russia. This includes tax breaks received by companies linked to ABRAMOVICH, buying and selling shares from and to the state at favourable rates, and the contracts received in the run up to the FIFA 2018 World Cup. Therefore, ABRAMOVICH has received preferential treatment and concessions from Putin and the Government of Russia. ABRAMOVICH is also associated with a person who is or has been involved in obtaining a benefit from or supporting the Government of Russia, namely: former First Deputy Prime Minister, and current Chairman of the Management Board for VEB, Igor Shuvalov; former General Director of Gazprom Investment Holdings, Alisher Usmanov, both of whom were sanctioned on 3 March 2022 for being involved persons in obtaining a benefit from or supporting the Russian government through carrying on business in a sector of strategic significance to the Russian government. ABRAMOVICH is associated with these individuals through close business relationships and mutual assistance, including ABRAMOVICH financing Shuvalov's trust and the subsequent loans from Shuvalov to enable Usmanov's purchase of a British mill. Furthermore, ABRAMOVICH is or has been involved in destabilising Ukraine and undermining and threatening the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine, via Evraz PLC, a steel manufacturing and mining company in which ABRAMOVICH has a significant shareholding and over which ABRAMOVICH exercises effective control. Evraz PLC is or has been involved in providing financial services, or making available funds, economic resources, goods or technology that could contribute to destabilising Ukraine or undermining or threatening the territorial integrity, sovereignty or independence of Ukraine – which includes potentially supplying steel to the Russian military which may have been used in the production of tanks. ABRAMOVICH exercises effective control of Evraz PLC given his significant shareholding and the shareholdings of his close associates who it is reasonable to expect ABRAMOVICH could direct through his close ties with Abramov and Shvidler, as well as his power to nominate directors of the board. ABRAMOVICH is or has been involved in obtaining a benefit from or supporting the Government of Russia, as ABRAMOVICH and Evraz PLC carry on business in sectors of strategic significance to the Government of Russia – namely the construction, defence and extractive sectors." Lots of coulda, woulda, shoulda but where's the evidence? Huge step from stating RA part owns a steel company to arguing it's products are used to destabalise Ukraine via weaponry. If it is he should be held to task, but is that the case? I own shares in tech companies some of whose products almost certainly are deployed in Russian munitions. Should I too be sanctioned because, if so, most on this forum hold likewise via their pensions? Of the measures now sought imagine these were applied to members of the House of Commons who deliberately acted to destabalise Iraq, or who preferentially let contracts with UK arms suppliers, or who grant export licences for weaponry used in wars around the world. Unlike RA the latter are proven matters of fact. Or take Greensill. Those politicians who sought private sector benefit from public influence whilst in office. Those who continue to take discounted benefit from influence they hold? What difference they and RA as I don't see them being held to account? Using the same logic I suppose we'll expect to see City suspend Massengo with immediate effect as thousands remind each week how his predilection for quaffing vodka presumably bolsters Russia's coffers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted March 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said: Bloody hell. "Oligarch Taskforce" ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: where's the evidence? Edited March 10, 2022 by BS2 Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, BTRFTG said: Doubtless many with pensions on this forum have some investment in Russian companies. What's missing is where he personally breaches any of the blanket terms prescribed in The Act i.e. Is he destabalising Ukraine and, if so, how? In respect of Chelsea he's already stated his intention to dispose of the asset and offer all profit to charities seeking to assist Ukraine. He's wealthy, he made his money in Russia. Exactly the folks successive Governments have been falling over themselves to get in bed with these past decades. Uhmmmmmm He actually said to benefit the victims of the war in Ukraine (He didn’t specify who or which side , or both) And as for his ‘stated intention’ , if his truthfulness has any likeness to his friend in the Kremlin...... The UK Govt can take control and ensure his wishes are met , and can be used to help the victims of this attack , namely Ukrainians 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, BS2 Red said: Jeez, what world celebrity hasn't had their photo taken with Putin? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: Jeez, what world celebrity hasn't had their photo taken with Putin? Abramovich is vulnerable to British retaliation because of his proximity to President Putin. Their relationship goes back a long way. Abramovich was one of Putin’s early supporters. He recommended him for the top Kremlin job to Boris Yeltsin, when Russia’s ailing leader was looking for a successor. According to the late oligarch Boris Berezovsky in evidence to the high court in London, Abramovich enjoyed significant political influence in Moscow from the second half of the 1990s. In October 1999, he attended Putin’s birthday party. Soon afterwards, Abramovich allegedly bought Putin, then the prime minister, a $50m yacht. “The request came from Mr Putin,” Berezovsky said in evidence. By the time Putin became president in 2000, Abramovich played a key role in shaping the new government, Berezovsky added in his evidence. Abramovich selected members of Putin’s cabinet, he claimed. Abramovich had the power to open and shut criminal cases and to initiate investigations and arrests. it was alleged. He was, in short, a big Kremlin player, albeit one who operated behind the scenes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: Jeez, what world celebrity hasn't had their photo taken with Putin? I'm sure plenty have. But how many of those celebrities made billions in the oligarch takeover of an entire country, recommended Putin as Yeltsin's successor, interviewed Putin's cabinet and also held the governorship of a Russian province? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: He actually said to benefit the victims of the war in Ukraine (He didn’t specify who or which side , or both) Would that make a difference? I was told a tale the other day by somebody whose son regularly played some online game or other with mates around the world and had done so for years. Two of those mates, from Russia, are now dead. Sent as conscripted cannon-fodder in an ill-equipped attempt to 'protect' Ukrainian citizens, or at least that what they were told. Metropolitan Russians neither believe in Putin's rhetoric nor support his warmongering. We shouldn't lose sight of that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: Abramovich is vulnerable to British retaliation because of his proximity to President Putin. Their relationship goes back a long way. Abramovich was one of Putin’s early supporters. He recommended him for the top Kremlin job to Boris Yeltsin, when Russia’s ailing leader was looking for a successor. According to the late oligarch Boris Berezovsky in evidence to the high court in London, Abramovich enjoyed significant political influence in Moscow from the second half of the 1990s. In October 1999, he attended Putin’s birthday party. Soon afterwards, Abramovich allegedly bought Putin, then the prime minister, a $50m yacht. “The request came from Mr Putin,” Berezovsky said in evidence. By the time Putin became president in 2000, Abramovich played a key role in shaping the new government, Berezovsky added in his evidence. Abramovich selected members of Putin’s cabinet, he claimed. Abramovich had the power to open and shut criminal cases and to initiate investigations and arrests. it was alleged. He was, in short, a big Kremlin player, albeit one who operated behind the scenes. Remind the circumstance of Berezovsky's comments? Remind The Judge's scathing comments as to Berezovsky's character and standing (akin a political Pulis,)? Remind the finding of The High Court? Clearly RA became a significant player in Russian politics. As with the world over the under the counter intertwining of commerce and politics is barely hidden, but folks are taking a leap in inferring RA and Putin are in each other's pockets. They may be, but where's the evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 hours ago, handsofclay said: The imposition of these restrictions upon Chelsea possibly goes some way to explaining why Lukaku only touched the ball 7 times in an entire match recently. You mean he’s got an “8 touch” bonus, that he knew couldn't be paid under Govt. sanctions? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, BTRFTG said: Save that's what they have just fine to certain individuals. So where to draw the line? Sounds like they need to bring in VAR to make that judgement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitrom Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 They look like a bunch of super villains. Well maybe just villains.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Sitrom said: They look like a bunch of super villains. Well maybe just villains.. Is that also. Alan Gilzean I see there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Shirt sponsor hasn't wasted any time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, BTRFTG said: Remind the circumstance of Berezovsky's comments? Remind The Judge's scathing comments as to Berezovsky's character and standing (akin a political Pulis,)? Remind the finding of The High Court? Clearly RA became a significant player in Russian politics. As with the world over the under the counter intertwining of commerce and politics is barely hidden, but folks are taking a leap in inferring RA and Putin are in each other's pockets. They may be, but where's the evidence? Two wrongs don't make a right. From the court judgement: It was also Mr Abramovich’s case that the lobbying activities of Mr Berezovsky, as a protector providing political krysha for Mr Abramovich, were inherently corrupt; and that, likewise, the deal between the two men, whereby Mr Abramovich agreed to pay Mr Berezovsky for his krysha services, was also corrupt. Mr Sumption accepted that Mr Abramovich was privy to that corruption but submitted that the reality was that that was how business was done in Russia in those times. “Mr Abramovich enjoyed very good relations with President Putin and others in power at the Kremlin,” the judgment recorded. “It was also clear that Mr Abramovich had privileged access to President Putin, in the sense that he could arrange meetings and discuss matters with him.” 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, BTRFTG said: Remind the circumstance of Berezovsky's comments? Remind The Judge's scathing comments as to Berezovsky's character and standing (akin a political Pulis,)? Remind the finding of The High Court? Clearly RA became a significant player in Russian politics. As with the world over the under the counter intertwining of commerce and politics is barely hidden, but folks are taking a leap in inferring RA and Putin are in each other's pockets. They may be, but where's the evidence? It's OK mate. Present your question to the Foreign Office, MI6, the International Crime Bureau etc if you think the UK has been unfair to poor Roman. I'm sure they have evidence. They may not be able to disclose it to you for state security reasons, but I'm sure he wasn't selected at random. There are somewhere between 75,000 and 150,000 Russians in the UK. Only a couple of hundred worldwide have been sanctioned. The broad reasons for sanctioning are detailed on the government website. They are much more significant than "owning shares in a weapon company". If RA thinks he has been unfairly treated, there is an appeals procedure. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Amazing that there are posters on here who have little good to say about our football club , or our country 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulton Red Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Very interesting times now. Unsure what can and can't be put on open forums but there were certainly questions prior to Putin about Russian oligarchs, indeed some of their 1990s excesses were a reason why Putin gained power. Putin of 2000 was very different to the current version but I digress, the Russian State in the 1990s..the oligarchs didn't exactly seem a positive force?! Really good book ‘once upon a time in Russia’ covers this period and is a good read. Only 99p for kindle version on Amazon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Paulton Red said: Really good book ‘once upon a time in Russia’ covers this period and is a good read. Only 99p for kindle version on Amazon Thanks,. I'll look for that- reasonably interested in the period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Dicks Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Does this mean Chelsea are going to be crap again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said: Does this mean Chelsea are going to be crap again? Most people wouldn’t know the owners of the majority of clubs I would think. Chelsea has a well known owner who is now in the media for negative reasons. They say there is no such thing as bad publicity but Chelsea will be linked with his name and the feelings that gives for a long while yet. I doubt too many businesses, players etc will be eager to be associated with Chelsea for some time. So yes they might find there best days are behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicki's soulmate Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: Apparently derived his wealth from unusual means - he started out in business as a granny farmer, was infamous for 15 minutes and then appeared on Panorama. Not sure if that means he can be sanctioned. I was listening to a bit of Carter recently, still sounds great 35 years on 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said: It's OK mate. Present your question to the Foreign Office, MI6, the International Crime Bureau etc if you think the UK has been unfair to poor Roman. I'm sure they have evidence. They may not be able to disclose it to you for state security reasons, but I'm sure he wasn't selected at random. There are somewhere between 75,000 and 150,000 Russians in the UK. Only a couple of hundred worldwide have been sanctioned. The broad reasons for sanctioning are detailed on the government website. They are much more significant than "owning shares in a weapon company". If RA thinks he has been unfairly treated, there is an appeals procedure. It looks to me like a government that needs some popular points sanctioning someone they know will make headlines with zero evidence to support those sanctions. It seems there are a lot of people on this forum that say they support freedom but celebrate others having there freedom taken away because they see the person being sanctioned as deserving it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicki's soulmate Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) https://www.facebook.com/900370820031957/posts/4943485602387105/ Edited March 10, 2022 by Nicki's soulmate 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pezo said: It looks to me like a government that needs some popular points sanctioning someone they know will make headlines with zero evidence to support those sanctions. It seems there are a lot of people on this forum that say they support freedom but celebrate others having there freedom taken away because they see the person being sanctioned as deserving it. How precisely is his freedom being taken away, other than his freedom to sell Chelsea for megabucks then - checks notes - ah, yes, "donate" the money to war victims? He isn't being detained. He lives in unabashed luxury in Israel and Monte Carlo. See my other post on what a massive gangster he is. He should never have been allowed into the UK in the first place, let alone be passed a fit and proper person to own a major English football club. Still, he'll appreciate your concern. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 At long last we may now get a proper investigation on how English football is run. Its administration is antiquated and the structure is not fit for purpose. Massive Revolution needed 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: Apparently derived his wealth from unusual means - he started out in business as a granny farmer, was infamous for 15 minutes and then appeared on Panorama. Not sure if that means he can be sanctioned. Yes, but he somehow got himself onboard starship enterprise allowance scheme, with a prince of wales award for supplying Valium and amphetamines. That must be grounds for sanctions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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