The grass isn’t always greener.

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Selred said:

Can you give examples?

Most of those are at the end of their careers, or one club wonders.

I already mentioned LeTiss, Gerard. I’m sure there are others.

[GrahamC]

50 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Marlon Pack?

Pack got a huge pay rise in joining Cardiff & he didn’t even need to move.

I doubt he’s regretted it at all.

Edited April 25, 2022 by GrahamC

[Selred]

51 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I already mentioned LeTiss, Gerard. I’m sure there are others.

Not comparable with Bristol City players though.

Gerrard was a top earner, in a Liverpool team where he won Champions Leagues / FA Cups. And was his boyhood club.

Scott, HNM, Semenyo aren't at all comparable to this. 

[Major Isewater]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Pack got a huge pay rise in joining Cardiff & he didn’t even need to move.

I doubt he’s regretted it at all.

He’s not exactly a ‘ youngster’ leaving the nest too early either. 

[marmite]

I sympathise with your opening post Major but as has been said, money talks and any youngsters getting offers of 1 mil plus per year will have their heads turned (,or their agents will !). They will probably not be told they are going to be loaned out either. The days of the John Atyeos are gone I'm afraid.

[EmissionImpossible]

Interesting you give one example, Kelly and ignore Brownhill, granted we never ‘raised’ him. Both have done well at the top level and if anything shows that players should go for what they can realistically achieve. 

[Major Isewater]

32 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

Interesting you give one example, Kelly and ignore Brownhill, granted we never ‘raised’ him. Both have done well at the top level and if anything shows that players should go for what they can realistically achieve. 

Brownhill didn’t bugger off at the first sign of interest from a bigger club. He did what I’d like to see today’s bunch of starlets do, stick a round a bit to develop their game and experience.

Brownhill is  a very good example , thank you.
 

As for Kelly, he’s been playing Championship football this season hasn’t he? He has developed nicely and should go on to have a career at the top, probably  with a bigger club than Bournemouth. 

 

[LondonBristolian]

Taking the sentiment out of it, I'd encourage Semenyo, Massengo and Scott to ultimately back themselves. They should rightly feel they have the potential to succeed at a higher level and I think it would be a shame for them if they never took that leap just in case it didn't work out.

But I think there is a lot to be said for the timing.

It was quite heartening to see the reports about Semenyo in January that his agent and him are not rushing to make a move and are happy to work with City's development plan. And I think he would benefit from another year cementing himself as an outstanding prospect and I think he has every reason to believe that a good 2022-2023 could give him a platform to move to a Premier League club and establish himself.

Ditto with Scott. He has a lot of talent but he also has time on his side. He doesn't need to rush for a move and sticking with first team football seems like a good move for him.

Massengo is the real dilemma. There is a year on his contract and he isn't starting regularly. He's the one where it really feels a decision needs to be made in the summer. 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Brownhill didn’t bugger off at the first sign of interest from a bigger club. He did what I’d like to see today’s bunch of starlets do, stick a round a bit to develop their game and experience.

Brownhill is  a very good example , thank you.
 

As for Kelly, he’s been playing Championship football this season hasn’t he? He has developed nicely and should go on to have a career at the top, probably  with a bigger club than Bournemouth. 

 

Brownhill also has a very good agent who kept City on their toes re his contract…ultimately getting a £7m release clause built-in, that although wasn’t triggered was a big part of him going when he did.

[BCFC Rich]

8 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Let us be clear, I am not saying that these players should stay with us all their careers.

 I am also completely aware that these lads are professionals, ie getting paid to do a job. 
 

My angle is that perhaps staying and playing regularly another season or two in our first team can benefit not only their long term prospects but also the club’s. 
They will command higher fees and wages if they have some honours and or experience at this level and also improve their choice and quality of club for the future. 
How many talented youngsters have left their ‘ home’ clubs too early and seen their careers ruined by years out on loan or languishing in the new club’s reserves?
They won’t look fondly back on the time they earned 40/50,000£ a week but if they get a promotion or a good cup run , that’s what they’ll talk about with their friends. That’s what will warm their hearts in their old age. 
 

Yes. 

IMO this is spot on. I think if you are Scotts age in particular developing here probably is better, unlikely to be first choice in the prem. People will say a player should always back their ability, but I would argue that (if you are a young player) staying is backing your ability - you are backing the fact that clubs will still be interested, And if you build on the season before - more clubs will be interested. 

Going at the first opportunity for prem football and a better wage is actually in some ways acknowledging you may not get another chance. That's understandable later in your career, but as a young player there is something g to be said for developing in familiar surroundings, where you know you will get game time. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by BCFC Richard

[Selred]

50 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

IMO this is spot on. I think if you are Scotts age in particular developing here probably is better, unlikely to be first choice in the prem. People will say a player should always back their ability, but I would argue that (if you are a young player) staying is backing your ability - you are backing the fact that clubs will still be interested, And if you build on the season before - more clubs will be interested. 

Going at the first opportunity for prem football and a better wage is actually in some ways acknowledging you may not get another chance. That's understandable later in your career, but as a young player there is something g to be said for developing in familiar surroundings, where you know you will get game time. 

Then move now, with a loan back deal? Or if I were Scott, move now with a loan to a team who will be challenging top end of the table. 

[BCFC Rich]

2 minutes ago, Selred said:

Then move now, with a loan back deal? Or if I were Scott, move now with a loan to a team who will be challenging top end of the table. 

There is merit in that and it may even be what happens. But I think you want as close to guaranteed minutes as possible and thats realistically here. A loan to a different club doesn't give that. Lets say Everton go down and Scott get the prem move and is loaned to them - on paper thats fantastic and he's and a big club. But a slow start to the season and Lampard could be gone, then it's anyones guess. Here he is an established first team player a change of manager would be unlikely to change that, and when you are young (IMO) minutes are the most important thing for development. 30+ games in a relegation fight is better than 10 for a play off team (in terms of development). 

[Selred]

1 hour ago, BCFC Richard said:

There is merit in that and it may even be what happens. But I think you want as close to guaranteed minutes as possible and thats realistically here. A loan to a different club doesn't give that. Lets say Everton go down and Scott get the prem move and is loaned to them - on paper thats fantastic and he's and a big club. But a slow start to the season and Lampard could be gone, then it's anyones guess. Here he is an established first team player a change of manager would be unlikely to change that, and when you are young (IMO) minutes are the most important thing for development. 30+ games in a relegation fight is better than 10 for a play off team (in terms of development). 

But this is why you put in clauses about games played. Scott should back himself to get into teams higher up than City. A slow start here and Pearson can be gone, it's all the same arguments either side.   

[WolfOfWestStreet]

On 24/04/2022 at 19:48, Major Isewater said:

Money is fine but it won’t bring you the pleasure of glory and togetherness that a promotion or cup win will.

 

Bearing in mind we have never won a single major honour in our entire 128 year existence, i don't think hanging round here for silverware, or promotion for that matter, is a very smart move. 

[BCFC Rich]

2 hours ago, Selred said:

But this is why you put in clauses about games played. Scott should back himself to get into teams higher up than City. A slow start here and Pearson can be gone, it's all the same arguments either side.   

You amy end be right, and that might be what Scott does. I'm really just giving my own opinion. I think he is mostly likely to get game time here, where he quality is already well know, he is already a part of the first team - even if NP goes we don't have the finances for the next manager to sign a replacement. If he gets a Prem move now, it will likely be as much for his potential as his current ability. What I was trying to say was - IMO he is equally backing himself by staying. Knowing that a season the same or better than this one and the same clubs will still be interested, and likely some even better ones. He will be more established, likely to command a better wage etc. and will have been playing regularly in a place he is settled and happy. 

[Superjack]

On 25/04/2022 at 09:01, And Its Smith said:

I can’t think of any player that has left us for bigger things and would have regretted it.  There must be one or two I guess but then there are tons that are much better off playing at better clubs 

Micky Naynard?

Oh wait... it was all about his son's accent. 

As you were...

Edited April 26, 2022 by Superjack

[Snufflelufagus]

On 24/04/2022 at 19:48, Major Isewater said:

Our starlets may be tempted by the riches of Prem clubs but they should just remember that many players in the past have left the City on a high and then never had the same enjoyment out of their careers as if they had stayed. I 

I hope we can keep Semenyo, Scott and Massengo and they can fire us to the play offs and more perhaps . They will have great fun, improve their chances of choosing where they want to eventually play and become legends in Bristol. 
For every Kelly there are five who disappear along with their hopes of glory. Money is fine but it won’t bring you the pleasure of glory and togetherness that a promotion or cup win will.

 

Name some of these players that left for prem teams that disappeared?

[Sir Geoff]

14 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said:

Name some of these players that left for prem teams that disappeared?

I'll raise you a Peter Spiring ( aged 22).

[1960maaan]

To continue the conversation, looks like Alex Scott agrees with someone us on here. Good to hear (for now)

"The opportunities that I'm getting here and with the gaffer and what he's doing for me this season, I'm very grateful for it.

"Moving to a Premier League team now or a bigger team you're only going to playing Under-23s or sitting on the bench so I think playing week-in-week-out now is definitely benefitting me.

"In the future maybe I'll push on and play in the Premier League, hopefully with Bristol City but playing week-in-week-out is definitely the best thing for me."

Bristol City moved quickly to sign Scott to a new contract at the beginning of the season, tying him down on a long-term deal until the summer of 2025.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by 1960maaan

[BCFC Rich]

Was talking to a friend back in the UK, a fellow City fan. He suggested that he think HNM may have a contract extension agreed in principle, but it would rely on freeing up higher wages first. (He did use to have a direct connection to the club, but doesn't anymore - so this is not an ITK comment, but he does have some understaning of how the club works=. 

Is that plausible? I think we could do with the money, but also would mind him developing futhrrt here. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Was talking to a friend back in the UK, a fellow City fan. He suggested that he think HNM may have a contract extension agreed in principle, but it would rely on freeing up higher wages first. (He did use to have a direct connection to the club, but doesn't anymore - so this is not an ITK comment, but he does have some understaning of how the club works=. 

Is that plausible? I think we could do with the money, but also would mind him developing futhrrt here. 

Certainly plausible to have a contract “in the drawer” ready to go, e.g. once relegation avoided.

I’m sure we’ve all heard rumours going around in the past few weeks that player x has been offered a new deal, or player y has signed a new deal, it’s just we are waiting for it to be announced, etc.  I’m getting the vibe that it’s probably true, but Nige doesn’t want anything formally announced until the right time….which from listening to yesterday’s media stuff is after the season finishes.  Perhaps it’s just a simple way of ensuring fans don’t think a player has slackened off???

[pillred]

On 25/04/2022 at 10:31, Robbored said:

I already mentioned LeTiss, Gerard. I’m sure there are others.

John Atyeo.

Edited April 29, 2022 by pillred
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