Unhappy Scenes

[RedTop]

I was among those at Chesterfield last night who watched the depressing showdown at the end of the game between a few fans and the manager.

For those of you not there, or who were standing and therefore didn't see what happened, here's how it went: The players, obviously despondent, clapped the fans as they came off, as GJ has told them to do and as they should do. Let's face it, the fans who went last night expended a lot of time, money and commitment to follow their team. However, rather than reciprocating this clapping, a small group of angry City fans mainly in their teens/early20s rushed to the front of the stand right next to me and started screaming abuse and hand signals at the players. Then GJ came along and fronted them up at the tunnel entrance. He was looking at these fans directly, signalling clearly that he would be telling the players what he thought of them, and that it would not be much different from what the fans were shouting about, but that he wanted the fans to clap the players off to give them a lift. He was gesturing to them to try and get them to clap the players off. In response, the small group of fans continued their barracking and gesturing, and shouted back to GJ that the players had to earn being clapped off. They were giving the hand signals for drinking etc, telling him what they thought of the players' attitudes and priorities.

As a supporter it's heart-rending to see a manager and the fans fronting each other up that way. I don't condone the very aggressive snarling attitude with which these lads conveyed their opinions to GJ and the players, but what depresses me is this:

As much as I admire GJ's approach and would like to support him on this one, they have a point.

Why should we clap off players just because they've turned up in red and white shirts? The players let the fans down again yesterday. Not by losing, but by failing to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes. Until the first goal went in, we looked the better side though glaringly lacking in movement off the ball and a cutting edge. But as soon as the first goal went in, the team just stopped trying. The heads went down and the last half hour was an embarrassment. Surely we have a right to expect the players to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes, not just 60.

I hear what GJ is saying about clapping the players to give them a lift. And I can also see that refusing to do so might also make them feel even less confident and up for it. But clapping is meaningless if it's given no matter what. I agree with those fans on this one. The players have to earn the applause when they leave the field. Simply turning up in a red and white shirt is not enough to deserve applause when they walk towards the tunnel.

The fans deserved the applause because they made a lot of effort to get to the game and they did back the team for the full 90. But did the players deserve it? In the main, probably not last night. I clapped them off against Hartlepool because despite the defeat I felt they'd given it their all and were unlucky. That wasn't the case at Saltergate.

It's GJ's job to lift the players if they need it. They are professionals. They should be willing to do whatever it takes to improve. And I understand that by trying to get the fans to clap the players, the players will see GJ as someone on their side, willing to back them up, and perhaps respond to him.

But perhaps it takes a refusal among the loyal away fans - traditionally the most vocally supportive of the team - to take what we're given and then unquestioningly clap off the teams regardless for some players to realise that the effort they are putting in is not good enough and will not do, and that although we are loyal to the club this does not mean we will simply accept whatever percentage of professionality they deign to bestow upon us.

Stop the drinking

Train harder off the pitch

Try harder on the pitch

Then I will clap you off whether you win, lose or draw. Until then, I'll save my applause for when the effort merits it. And last night, frankly, it didn't.

[dolman_bcfc]

good post mate. Totally agree with you.

[Guest Harry Dolman]

To me it is no mere coincidence that things have taken a turn for the worse since that episode down town.

Lots of fans feel more disenfranchised than ever with their team. Most people can accept that we won't always be successful, but we do demand that the players give their all, all the time.

Johnson is an experienced manager & he will learn on sat (but sure he already knows it) that 99.9% of the fans are behind him.

I can understand fans being angry with someone like Partridge - we pay good money for him, his 1st few appearances are dodgy to put it mildly, then he finds some form, then THAT incident & now he finds himself back at square 1.

As a team we have had a soft underbelly for years, how many times have we won away, up north on a cold evening ??? The last I recall is Bradford in the league cup all those years ago but there must be a more recent example.

Am happy to let GJ get on with it, but it will take him time. I can't see a sea change in Jan, it will be next season till we see "his side".

[054123]

Stop the drinking

Train harder off the pitch

Try harder on the pitch

Then I will clap you off whether you win, lose or draw. Until then, I'll save my applause for when the effort merits it. And last night, frankly, it didn't.

Good post and i completely agree with the last bit.

There's definately an issue at the club with regard to effort and commitment, which needs to be sorted ASAP.

Theres nothing worse then watching city when you can clearly see people not trying. You feel completely robbed and rightly so.

[Guest redphilc]

I was among those at Chesterfield last night who watched the depressing showdown at the end of the game between a few fans and the manager.

For those of you not there, or who were standing and therefore didn't see what happened, here's how it went: The players, obviously despondent, clapped the fans as they came off, as GJ has told them to do and as they should do. Let's face it, the fans who went last night expended a lot of time, money and commitment to follow their team. However, rather than reciprocating this clapping, a small group of angry City fans mainly in their teens/early20s rushed to the front of the stand right next to me and started screaming abuse and hand signals at the players. Then GJ came along and fronted them up at the tunnel entrance. He was looking at these fans directly, signalling clearly that he would be telling the players what he thought of them, and that it would not be much different from what the fans were shouting about, but that he wanted the fans to clap the players off to give them a lift. He was gesturing to them to try and get them to clap the players off. In response, the small group of fans continued their barracking and gesturing, and shouted back to GJ that the players had to earn being clapped off. They were giving the hand signals for drinking etc, telling him what they thought of the players' attitudes and priorities.

As a supporter it's heart-rending to see a manager and the fans fronting each other up that way. I don't condone the very aggressive snarling attitude with which these lads conveyed their opinions to GJ and the players, but what depresses me is this:

As much as I admire GJ's approach and would like to support him on this one, they have a point.

Why should we clap off players just because they've turned up in red and white shirts? The players let the fans down again yesterday. Not by losing, but by failing to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes. Until the first goal went in, we looked the better side though glaringly lacking in movement off the ball and a cutting edge. But as soon as the first goal went in, the team just stopped trying. The heads went down and the last half hour was an embarrassment. Surely we have a right to expect the players to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes, not just 60.

I hear what GJ is saying about clapping the players to give them a lift. And I can also see that refusing to do so might also make them feel even less confident and up for it. But clapping is meaningless if it's given no matter what. I agree with those fans on this one. The players have to earn the applause when they leave the field. Simply turning up in a red and white shirt is not enough to deserve applause when they walk towards the tunnel.

The fans deserved the applause because they made a lot of effort to get to the game and they did back the team for the full 90. But did the players deserve it? In the main, probably not last night. I clapped them off against Hartlepool because despite the defeat I felt they'd given it their all and were unlucky. That wasn't the case at Saltergate.

It's GJ's job to lift the players if they need it. They are professionals. They should be willing to do whatever it takes to improve. And I understand that by trying to get the fans to clap the players, the players will see GJ as someone on their side, willing to back them up, and perhaps respond to him.

But perhaps it takes a refusal among the loyal away fans - traditionally the most vocally supportive of the team - to take what we're given and then unquestioningly clap off the teams regardless for some players to realise that the effort they are putting in is not good enough and will not do, and that although we are loyal to the club this does not mean we will simply accept whatever percentage of professionality they deign to bestow upon us.

Stop the drinking

Train harder off the pitch

Try harder on the pitch

Then I will clap you off whether you win, lose or draw. Until then, I'll save my applause for when the effort merits it. And last night, frankly, it didn't.

Glad i read your post Red Top. Other peolple have been saying GJ had been given the anchor sign by our fans. Sounds like they didn't give GJ abuse but made him aware that they like me aren't happy our players put more effort into drinking out of hours than they do performing in hours on the pitch.

Nice to see someone actually saw what happened and posted it rather than telling a fishermans tale.

Cheers.

[Guest alexthomas85]

I was among those at Chesterfield last night who watched the depressing showdown at the end of the game between a few fans and the manager.

For those of you not there, or who were standing and therefore didn't see what happened, here's how it went: The players, obviously despondent, clapped the fans as they came off, as GJ has told them to do and as they should do. Let's face it, the fans who went last night expended a lot of time, money and commitment to follow their team. However, rather than reciprocating this clapping, a small group of angry City fans mainly in their teens/early20s rushed to the front of the stand right next to me and started screaming abuse and hand signals at the players. Then GJ came along and fronted them up at the tunnel entrance. He was looking at these fans directly, signalling clearly that he would be telling the players what he thought of them, and that it would not be much different from what the fans were shouting about, but that he wanted the fans to clap the players off to give them a lift. He was gesturing to them to try and get them to clap the players off. In response, the small group of fans continued their barracking and gesturing, and shouted back to GJ that the players had to earn being clapped off. They were giving the hand signals for drinking etc, telling him what they thought of the players' attitudes and priorities.

As a supporter it's heart-rending to see a manager and the fans fronting each other up that way. I don't condone the very aggressive snarling attitude with which these lads conveyed their opinions to GJ and the players, but what depresses me is this:

As much as I admire GJ's approach and would like to support him on this one, they have a point.

Why should we clap off players just because they've turned up in red and white shirts? The players let the fans down again yesterday. Not by losing, but by failing to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes. Until the first goal went in, we looked the better side though glaringly lacking in movement off the ball and a cutting edge. But as soon as the first goal went in, the team just stopped trying. The heads went down and the last half hour was an embarrassment. Surely we have a right to expect the players to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes, not just 60.

I hear what GJ is saying about clapping the players to give them a lift. And I can also see that refusing to do so might also make them feel even less confident and up for it. But clapping is meaningless if it's given no matter what. I agree with those fans on this one. The players have to earn the applause when they leave the field. Simply turning up in a red and white shirt is not enough to deserve applause when they walk towards the tunnel.

The fans deserved the applause because they made a lot of effort to get to the game and they did back the team for the full 90. But did the players deserve it? In the main, probably not last night. I clapped them off against Hartlepool because despite the defeat I felt they'd given it their all and were unlucky. That wasn't the case at Saltergate.

It's GJ's job to lift the players if they need it. They are professionals. They should be willing to do whatever it takes to improve. And I understand that by trying to get the fans to clap the players, the players will see GJ as someone on their side, willing to back them up, and perhaps respond to him.

But perhaps it takes a refusal among the loyal away fans - traditionally the most vocally supportive of the team - to take what we're given and then unquestioningly clap off the teams regardless for some players to realise that the effort they are putting in is not good enough and will not do, and that although we are loyal to the club this does not mean we will simply accept whatever percentage of professionality they deign to bestow upon us.

Stop the drinking

Train harder off the pitch

Try harder on the pitch

Then I will clap you off whether you win, lose or draw. Until then, I'll save my applause for when the effort merits it. And last night, frankly, it didn't.

[RedTop]

Glad i read your post Red Top. Other peolple have been saying GJ had been given the anchor sign by our fans. Sounds like they didn't give GJ abuse but made him aware that they like me aren't happy our players put more effort into drinking out of hours than they do performing in hours on the pitch.

Nice to see someone actually saw what happened and posted it rather than telling a fishermans tale.

Cheers.

No, GJ definitely did not give the anchor sign, though it was an understandable misinterpretation to make. I was in the front row of the seats, directly in front of GJ and right next to the baying fans who had made their way to the front. GJ was actually pointing to himself to say that he would be speaking to the players about their performance, but the way his fingers were curled round and he was moving his hand back and forward, pointing to his chest, it might have looked like an obscene gesture from some angles.

The fans did give him a bit of abuse, but it was mainly anger that he appeared to be defending, and wanting us to clap off, players who, as you say, have failed to conduct themselves in a manner professional enough to give us the confidence that their effort is going into training rather than partying.

I think it did GJ good to see the fans are angry at the players' conduct, but I also can't condone the level of abuse aimed by some, which was OTT and unpleasant to witness. However, I don't think the club can accuse the fans of causing a split on this one, at a time when it would be wonderful if we could all pull in the same direction. The blame for supporters becoming disenfranchised lays squarely on the shoulders of players who are wrecking their relationship with us with their unconvincing attitude, and repeated off-the-field exploits which contradict their supposed status as professional athletes. The sooner this is spelled out to them, and it is made clear that this cannot continue, the better.

I will applaud to my dying day any player, regardless of ability, who sweats blood for the club and gives 100 per cent day in, day out. That is all you can ask. But that is evidently not happening and I don't think GJ could put his hand on his heart and say it was. We have too many players interested in living a showbiz lifestyle rather than buckling down and showing professionalism, and who act as if turning up on a Saturday is all it takes to deserve their pay cheque. It's up to GJ to sort it out, and I think he has what it takes to do that - even if it means shipping out 20 players and shipping another 20 in. Only then will we have a team we can honestly be proud of, regardless of where they finish in the league.

[RedTauntonian]

Totally agree with that last bit of the post it is spot on and what should be happening!

[Mr Mosquito]

I will applaud to my dying day any player, regardless of ability, who sweats blood for the club and gives 100 per cent day in, day out. That is all you can ask. But that is evidently not happening and I don't think GJ could put his hand on his heart and say it was. We have too many players interested in living a showbiz lifestyle rather than buckling down and showing professionalism, and who act as if turning up on a Saturday is all it takes to deserve their pay cheque. It's up to GJ to sort it out, and I think he has what it takes to do that - even if it means shipping out 20 players and shipping another 20 in. Only then will we have a team we can honestly be proud of, regardless of where they finish in the league.

Well written RedTop. I remember the two seasons we had in the old fourth division and no one could accuse the players of any lack of passion under Terry Cooper's stewardship in those years. As a team those mainly very young players buckled down with true professionalism and got us up from that hell hole division. Even Tom Ritchie came back to help out - has Marcus Stewart really shown the same passion as Tom Ritchie did when he returned to us from Sunderland ??!!!!!!

In the 7 seasons we've been in this poxy division I've felt true anger at all the threads relating to the very unprofessional BCFC drinking culture under Wilson, then Tinman and now Gary Johnson. I don't want to be reading about players fighting and drinking I want some headlines worthy of our support - i.e. some long overdue success on the pitch for once.

[Robbored]

Johnson has to be applauded for his reaction to the fans last night but repairing the very deep wounds brought about by poor performances,lack of committment and then the night club debacle will take more than peacemaking attempts from the manager to achieve.

The only thing that fans want to see is players giving thier all,every game regardless.If City lose a game but have gone down fighting then its depressing that they've lost but palatable because they tried 100% .Heads going down after conceding a goal down is simply unacceptable.

Johnson is paid good money to address these problems and I have faith in his ability to eventually get it right.

[mozo]

It's been a nightmare season so far and nearly everything that can go wrong has. When GJ does have a fullish squad available to him for a few weeks on the trot I'd expect to see us performing more like BCFC, even away from home. All clubs have their bad times and we'll have to wait patiently until this period ends and normality resumes, and I don't expect there to be much more frustrated confrontation from now on. But then I'm an optimist!

[LSR]

I was among those at Chesterfield last night who watched the depressing showdown at the end of the game between a few fans and the manager.

For those of you not there, or who were standing and therefore didn't see what happened, here's how it went: The players, obviously despondent, clapped the fans as they came off, as GJ has told them to do and as they should do. Let's face it, the fans who went last night expended a lot of time, money and commitment to follow their team. However, rather than reciprocating this clapping, a small group of angry City fans mainly in their teens/early20s rushed to the front of the stand right next to me and started screaming abuse and hand signals at the players. Then GJ came along and fronted them up at the tunnel entrance. He was looking at these fans directly, signalling clearly that he would be telling the players what he thought of them, and that it would not be much different from what the fans were shouting about, but that he wanted the fans to clap the players off to give them a lift. He was gesturing to them to try and get them to clap the players off. In response, the small group of fans continued their barracking and gesturing, and shouted back to GJ that the players had to earn being clapped off. They were giving the hand signals for drinking etc, telling him what they thought of the players' attitudes and priorities.

As a supporter it's heart-rending to see a manager and the fans fronting each other up that way. I don't condone the very aggressive snarling attitude with which these lads conveyed their opinions to GJ and the players, but what depresses me is this:

As much as I admire GJ's approach and would like to support him on this one, they have a point.

Why should we clap off players just because they've turned up in red and white shirts? The players let the fans down again yesterday. Not by losing, but by failing to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes. Until the first goal went in, we looked the better side though glaringly lacking in movement off the ball and a cutting edge. But as soon as the first goal went in, the team just stopped trying. The heads went down and the last half hour was an embarrassment. Surely we have a right to expect the players to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes, not just 60.

I hear what GJ is saying about clapping the players to give them a lift. And I can also see that refusing to do so might also make them feel even less confident and up for it. But clapping is meaningless if it's given no matter what. I agree with those fans on this one. The players have to earn the applause when they leave the field. Simply turning up in a red and white shirt is not enough to deserve applause when they walk towards the tunnel.

The fans deserved the applause because they made a lot of effort to get to the game and they did back the team for the full 90. But did the players deserve it? In the main, probably not last night. I clapped them off against Hartlepool because despite the defeat I felt they'd given it their all and were unlucky. That wasn't the case at Saltergate.

It's GJ's job to lift the players if they need it. They are professionals. They should be willing to do whatever it takes to improve. And I understand that by trying to get the fans to clap the players, the players will see GJ as someone on their side, willing to back them up, and perhaps respond to him.

But perhaps it takes a refusal among the loyal away fans - traditionally the most vocally supportive of the team - to take what we're given and then unquestioningly clap off the teams regardless for some players to realise that the effort they are putting in is not good enough and will not do, and that although we are loyal to the club this does not mean we will simply accept whatever percentage of professionality they deign to bestow upon us.

Stop the drinking

Train harder off the pitch

Try harder on the pitch

Then I will clap you off whether you win, lose or draw. Until then, I'll save my applause for when the effort merits it. And last night, frankly, it didn't.

if look at GJ body language he is saying"**** me these players are poo,cant wait till january!"

you wait he doesnt think there anygood he is doing all he can ie gettingus to help as well ,so by calling our own players names even thought there are crap isnt anyhelp what so ever.

100%GJ!!

[England]

GJ was quoted in the Evil Post that he quite understood how the fans felt and appreciated they had travelled so far in the rain and then paid good money to watch rubbish. He also said, if it's any comfort, that in the dressing room, he told the players exactly what the fans probably would have wanted to say.

Fair play to the bloke.

[Andy082005]

I was among those at Chesterfield last night who watched the depressing showdown at the end of the game between a few fans and the manager.

For those of you not there, or who were standing and therefore didn't see what happened, here's how it went: The players, obviously despondent, clapped the fans as they came off, as GJ has told them to do and as they should do. Let's face it, the fans who went last night expended a lot of time, money and commitment to follow their team. However, rather than reciprocating this clapping, a small group of angry City fans mainly in their teens/early20s rushed to the front of the stand right next to me and started screaming abuse and hand signals at the players. Then GJ came along and fronted them up at the tunnel entrance. He was looking at these fans directly, signalling clearly that he would be telling the players what he thought of them, and that it would not be much different from what the fans were shouting about, but that he wanted the fans to clap the players off to give them a lift. He was gesturing to them to try and get them to clap the players off. In response, the small group of fans continued their barracking and gesturing, and shouted back to GJ that the players had to earn being clapped off. They were giving the hand signals for drinking etc, telling him what they thought of the players' attitudes and priorities.

As a supporter it's heart-rending to see a manager and the fans fronting each other up that way. I don't condone the very aggressive snarling attitude with which these lads conveyed their opinions to GJ and the players, but what depresses me is this:

As much as I admire GJ's approach and would like to support him on this one, they have a point.

Why should we clap off players just because they've turned up in red and white shirts? The players let the fans down again yesterday. Not by losing, but by failing to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes. Until the first goal went in, we looked the better side though glaringly lacking in movement off the ball and a cutting edge. But as soon as the first goal went in, the team just stopped trying. The heads went down and the last half hour was an embarrassment. Surely we have a right to expect the players to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes, not just 60.

I hear what GJ is saying about clapping the players to give them a lift. And I can also see that refusing to do so might also make them feel even less confident and up for it. But clapping is meaningless if it's given no matter what. I agree with those fans on this one. The players have to earn the applause when they leave the field. Simply turning up in a red and white shirt is not enough to deserve applause when they walk towards the tunnel.

The fans deserved the applause because they made a lot of effort to get to the game and they did back the team for the full 90. But did the players deserve it? In the main, probably not last night. I clapped them off against Hartlepool because despite the defeat I felt they'd given it their all and were unlucky. That wasn't the case at Saltergate.

It's GJ's job to lift the players if they need it. They are professionals. They should be willing to do whatever it takes to improve. And I understand that by trying to get the fans to clap the players, the players will see GJ as someone on their side, willing to back them up, and perhaps respond to him.

But perhaps it takes a refusal among the loyal away fans - traditionally the most vocally supportive of the team - to take what we're given and then unquestioningly clap off the teams regardless for some players to realise that the effort they are putting in is not good enough and will not do, and that although we are loyal to the club this does not mean we will simply accept whatever percentage of professionality they deign to bestow upon us.

Stop the drinking

Train harder off the pitch

Try harder on the pitch

Then I will clap you off whether you win, lose or draw. Until then, I'll save my applause for when the effort merits it. And last night, frankly, it didn't.

Great post mate, some superb points of view their

Is it just me or does there seem to be a massive divide between the club and the fans these days? Under Wilson (please don't think I'm dragging up the past, I'm using this as an example), under Wilson we had players like Burnell, Doherty, Coles, Hill, Carey, Butler etc who were really really up for it, the club was buzzing, it really felt like the fans, players and management were one.

For the past 12 months this has vanished, the heart of the club, all the young Bristolians we were once so proud of....have gone. It feels like now we have a squad who really don't grasp the concept of passion. For all the critiscm Burnell got, he gave 100% each time, he was a City fan, as was Coles, Doherty, Hill etc, and would always go down fighting. if they used to play poor in the first half, you always knew they would come out fizzing in the second half

Murray is a prime example. A couple of years ago, this lad had Bristol City pumpng through his veins, as did Carey....they have lost their hunger because this club has no longer has a heart.

You look at the Rovers. It pains me to say it, but they are fighting tooth and nail for one another at the moment, they are fighting for Trollope and Anderson, and giving everything they have. They proved that by getting those 2 goals at the weekend.

Not one City player has shown half of this commitment this season

[bladder]

as a rovers fan id never boo my team off BUT ill tell you what, if id travelled hundreds of miles / paid shedloads of money doing so and seen my team go bellyup and no commitment id give them both barrels at the end

[JudgeRed]

I was among those at Chesterfield last night who watched the depressing showdown at the end of the game between a few fans and the manager.

For those of you not there, or who were standing and therefore didn't see what happened, here's how it went: The players, obviously despondent, clapped the fans as they came off, as GJ has told them to do and as they should do. Let's face it, the fans who went last night expended a lot of time, money and commitment to follow their team. However, rather than reciprocating this clapping, a small group of angry City fans mainly in their teens/early20s rushed to the front of the stand right next to me and started screaming abuse and hand signals at the players. Then GJ came along and fronted them up at the tunnel entrance. He was looking at these fans directly, signalling clearly that he would be telling the players what he thought of them, and that it would not be much different from what the fans were shouting about, but that he wanted the fans to clap the players off to give them a lift. He was gesturing to them to try and get them to clap the players off. In response, the small group of fans continued their barracking and gesturing, and shouted back to GJ that the players had to earn being clapped off. They were giving the hand signals for drinking etc, telling him what they thought of the players' attitudes and priorities.

As a supporter it's heart-rending to see a manager and the fans fronting each other up that way. I don't condone the very aggressive snarling attitude with which these lads conveyed their opinions to GJ and the players, but what depresses me is this:

As much as I admire GJ's approach and would like to support him on this one, they have a point.

Why should we clap off players just because they've turned up in red and white shirts? The players let the fans down again yesterday. Not by losing, but by failing to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes. Until the first goal went in, we looked the better side though glaringly lacking in movement off the ball and a cutting edge. But as soon as the first goal went in, the team just stopped trying. The heads went down and the last half hour was an embarrassment. Surely we have a right to expect the players to give 100 per cent for 90 minutes, not just 60.

I hear what GJ is saying about clapping the players to give them a lift. And I can also see that refusing to do so might also make them feel even less confident and up for it. But clapping is meaningless if it's given no matter what. I agree with those fans on this one. The players have to earn the applause when they leave the field. Simply turning up in a red and white shirt is not enough to deserve applause when they walk towards the tunnel.

The fans deserved the applause because they made a lot of effort to get to the game and they did back the team for the full 90. But did the players deserve it? In the main, probably not last night. I clapped them off against Hartlepool because despite the defeat I felt they'd given it their all and were unlucky. That wasn't the case at Saltergate.

It's GJ's job to lift the players if they need it. They are professionals. They should be willing to do whatever it takes to improve. And I understand that by trying to get the fans to clap the players, the players will see GJ as someone on their side, willing to back them up, and perhaps respond to him.

But perhaps it takes a refusal among the loyal away fans - traditionally the most vocally supportive of the team - to take what we're given and then unquestioningly clap off the teams regardless for some players to realise that the effort they are putting in is not good enough and will not do, and that although we are loyal to the club this does not mean we will simply accept whatever percentage of professionality they deign to bestow upon us.

Stop the drinking

Train harder off the pitch

Try harder on the pitch

Then I will clap you off whether you win, lose or draw. Until then, I'll save my applause for when the effort merits it. And last night, frankly, it didn't.

Red Top - I realy miss your top post's on here mate. Please bring back Edson aswell. :Clap:

[yeovilred]

Great post mate, some superb points of view their

Is it just me or does there seem to be a massive divide between the club and the fans these days? Under Wilson (please don't think I'm dragging up the past, I'm using this as an example), under Wilson we had players like Burnell, Doherty, Coles, Hill, Carey, Butler etc who were really really up for it, the club was buzzing, it really felt like the fans, players and management were one.

For the past 12 months this has vanished, the heart of the club, all the young Bristolians we were once so proud of....have gone. It feels like now we have a squad who really don't grasp the concept of passion. For all the critiscm Burnell got, he gave 100% each time, he was a City fan, as was Coles, Doherty, Hill etc, and would always go down fighting. if they used to play poor in the first half, you always knew they would come out fizzing in the second half

Murray is a prime example. A couple of years ago, this lad had Bristol City pumpng through his veins, as did Carey....they have lost their hunger because this club has no longer has a heart.

You look at the Rovers. It pains me to say it, but they are fighting tooth and nail for one another at the moment, they are fighting for Trollope and Anderson, and giving everything they have. They proved that by getting those 2 goals at the weekend.

You've hit the nail on the head there mate. You just don't see the players chatting to the fans on the sideleine during the warm up. I remember when Peacock, Roberts etc used to spend ages having FUN exchanging banter. Like them or not you couldn't doubt their commitment

[Milo]

I admit that I don't clap the team off when I think they've not shown commitment.

I wasn't at the game, and I don't want to be seen as an apologist for the players, but right now we have a team of players suffering a crisis of confidence. GJ's arrival brought the confidence back but after the shambles at the Night Club and a couple of poor results, it looks like they're back not believing in themselves.

Now we can ask them to be professional, we can ask them to sweat blood and tears, but when the voice of doubt in your head starts shouting it's hard to ignore. It sounds as though we played OK until the goal went in and then we stopped. Lack of desire or lack of belief and self confidence?

If I'd been there, I'm sure I'd have been angry and wouldn't have clapped. But in the calm light of day we have to entertain the possibility that there's more to the players' underperformance than a lack of desire. If that's the case, it might be helpful for results if the fans made the first step in getting the players confidence back up by showing them we love them unconditionally. I accept that's a bitter pill to swallow after recent antics (and I'm as angry as anyone about late night drinks and fights), but somehow the players and fans have to kiss and make up. So I think GJ has a point in encouraging fans to reciprocate the clapping.

[mozo]

If that's the case, it might be helpful for results if the fans made the first step in getting the players confidence back up by showing them we love them unconditionally.

Either that or some sort of organised public ridicule!

[havanatopia]

Great post mate, some superb points of view their

For the past 12 months this has vanished, the heart of the club, all the young Bristolians we were once so proud of....have gone. It feels like now we have a squad who really don't grasp the concept of passion. For all the critiscm Burnell got, he gave 100% each time, he was a City fan, as was Coles, Doherty, Hill etc, and would always go down fighting. if they used to play poor in the first half, you always knew they would come out fizzing in the second half

Not one City player has shown half of this commitment this season

Along with many other posts on this thread some excellent thoughts here. It is what i have been saying for sometime that losing so many city born and bredders is the nub of the issue. I shook my head time and time again when i heard the likes of Doherty, Coles, Hill et al virtually were shipped out. Tins had his reasons and under his regime he was in control but it destroyed in the space of a few short months what Danny Wilson had built which by no means was the finished article but is had the core of what we needed. Thats football. GJ now begins the rebuild. sadly the local talent is probably not yet ready to step up but we do have the likes of Cotterell etc who are beginning to come through which shows promise once again.

[mozo]

Along with many other posts on this thread some excellent thoughts here. It is what i have been saying for sometime that losing so many city born and bredders is the nub of the issue. I shook my head time and time again when i heard the likes of Doherty, Coles, Hill et al virtually were shipped out. Tins had his reasons and under his regime he was in control but it destroyed in the space of a few short months what Danny Wilson had built which by no means was the finished article but is had the core of what we needed. Thats football. GJ now begins the rebuild. sadly the local talent is probably not yet ready to step up but we do have the likes of Cotterell etc who are beginning to come through which shows promise once again.

Yeh you'd hope that Cotterill, Brown, Skuse and Golbourne will in time replace the Bristol bunch that you mentioned. They're all between 17 and 21 and have shown plenty of potential.

If Phillips, Partridge, Heywood, Wilkshire and Brooker can be at their best for the next few years, Gary Johnson can fill all the blanks over time (and he'll need plenty of it).

Easy innit!

[havanatopia]

Yeh you'd hope that Cotterill, Brown, Skuse and Golbourne will in time replace the Bristol bunch that you mentioned. They're all between 17 and 21 and have shown plenty of potential.

If Phillips, Partridge, Heywood, Wilkshire and Brooker can be at their best for the next few years, Gary Johnson can fill all the blanks over time (and he'll need plenty of it).

Easy innit!

too true. but if he gets a few latvians, with a lithuanian and estonian thrown in for good measure and they bring there cracking looking sisters along it will for sure liven up the stands me hearty. ooo arrrrrrrrrr.

[mozo]

too true. but if he gets a few latvians, with a lithuanian and estonian thrown in for good measure and they bring there cracking looking sisters along it will for sure liven up the stands me hearty. ooo arrrrrrrrrr.

I'll see you there comrade

[RedM]

I wasn't there either but can understand the frustrations of travelling fans, they have shown to give the most vocal of support and so can be expected to be the most vocal in defeat too.

But it's not simply about being defeated though is it, it's the way we just folded after surviving so long. I have seen the team clapped off many times if we give a good account of ourselves. Remember the defeat in the cup against Everton last season, we lost but I felt we had won and was on a high for days!

It's a sort of chicken and egg situation, we clap and they perform or they perform and we clap. There has to be some middle ground where we understand and reward them, which I think we do. And they understand us and reward us, which many players haven't grasped yet. And in the middle of all this is GaryJ who is also having to answer to his employers, although I'm sure is getting support from them.

Every match from now on is a 'must win' match and has to be prepared for and treated as such. They must wear their shirts with pride and play with passion and commitment, and the rewards will be theirs/ours.

Don't we start playing with the yellow winter ball soon, our luck will then change!

[Mr Mosquito]

Every match from now on is a 'must win' match and has to be prepared for and treated as such. They must wear their shirts with pride and play with passion and commitment, and the rewards will be theirs/ours.

Don't we start playing with the yellow winter ball soon, our luck will then change!

Our luck may well change in the mud of autumn and chill of winter. It's at that time when stamina rather than skill will come into play - but will our players be fit enough? I've read that Marcus Stewart often hits form around Xmas time. I'm clutching at straws but there is still hope.

[B1ackbird]

I can remember when we were good, the support was no different then, than now!

This 'getting behind' the players is a load of *****cks, If they're playing well, the fans respond, simple as that!!

[RedTop]

It might be helpful for results if the fans made the first step in getting the players confidence back up by showing them we love them unconditionally.

But here's the thing. I love the club unconditionally. I do not love the players unconditionally. They are two separate things.

I love the players if they show the same respect for, and commitment to, the club that I am devoted to. If I loved them unconditionally, I'd love them after they left etc. And that's obviously not the case, as much as we show appreciation to some servants when they return to the Gate in an away shirt.

I don't want the players to think I love them unconditionally. It's this concept of thinking they deserve respect and adoration regardless of how the train and play that is the problem, not the solution. It's that attitude that leads them to think it's okay to go out and get bladdered or walk around like big time Charlies. The players have got to to start understanding they have got to earn our adoration rather than taking the fans for granted.

[RedM]

That's it exactly RedTop. Its our club that we were born to follow. We have feeling in our hearts and pride and passion where Bristol City is involved.

I think to some of our players it's just employment,a job, like we have jobs we care more about some than others. However, we must do our jobs and perform well in order to get a better one or be promoted. We have to work in order to provide ourselves shelter and food, then comes the luxuries. I expect most of us could just be given a weeks/months notice and then made redundant or sacked. I doubt if many of us have the luxury of a 2 or 3 year contract to provide security.

We have to apply for jobs, no one comes looking to employ us (well ok sometimes people get headhunted). we don't have agents (spit) looking out to get us good deals and better money. I'm sure some players just drift from club to club with no feeling or thought for where they play and one set of fans are the same as another.

How many players give much thought to a game they have just played compared to us on here picking the games apart kick by kick?

They have too much time, too much money and not enough respect for themselves and their employeers, which is ultimately us.

[gazareth]

If you don't get poster of the year, it will be a heinous crime. You've summed things up pretty damn well there RT.

[Martyn Hocking]

I remember the two seasons we had in the old fourth division and no one could accuse the players of any lack of passion under Terry Cooper's stewardship in those years. As a team those mainly very young players buckled down with true professionalism and got us up from that hell hole division. Even Tom Ritchie came back to help out - has Marcus Stewart really shown the same passion as Tom Ritchie did when he returned to us from Sunderland ??!!!!!!

There is no comparison between the effort Tom put in and that shown so far by MS. Ritchie had the physique of a pipecleaner but the heart of a lion and he was absolutely critical to our escape from the basement division. He scored a rather fine goal at Eastville in the FA Cup in the 82/83 season too I seem to recall - waltzing across the edge of the box before tucking the ball into the bottom corner - PICK THAT ONE OUT OF THE NET GASHEADS!