BrizzleRed

Nah, we leave that sort of thing to you lot to get your pub team shirt sponsorship!?

I appreciate the thoughtful and well put point of view ID. The point where we completely differ is whether there is a need for a word privilage at all. You say you don’t know what a better word would be, but I say, there shouldn’t be any word at all! When you’re basically telling a whole ethnic group that they are under-privilaged, it creates a very negative mindset. I believe everything should be viewed on a person by person basis, not on skin colour alone. There is absolutely no evidence that every white person has an advantage from birth, whilst every black person has a disadvantage and is discrimated against. Taking this point a step further, the Asian community seem to show pretty high academic and business achievemts, so would they qualify as advantaged or disadvantaged under this form of categorisation? In short, categorising entire groups within our society in terms of a single word, regardless of their individual situations seems absolutely pointless, as well as being very negative and divisive imho. The only real gain I can see, is for those who want to foster and promote a racial divide in this country, rather than try to eliminate it. I will point out, as you did with me earlier, I’m certainly not suggesting you are one of these people. I’m sure we’ll never agree on this one to be honest, but it’s been an interesting discussion, all the same.

Now you’re really talking about a country with massive social problems, when you get onto the subject of America! I think we can safely say we’re way ahead of them on that score and they could learn a lot from us. I think you could also find cases of mass shootings in just about every possible situation over there and as we all know, schools seem to be partiicularly popular. It does seem to be a massively divided country on so many fronts and with their ridiculous gun laws, that can only have one outcome sadly. Certainly agree with what you say in this post ?

Understand where you’re coming from re the labels issue, but they can be viewed in multiple ways. They can most certainly carry negative connotations to many people and cause a great deal of resentment though. Yes, gays can certainly be more prone to insults from mindless individuals, but while things sre improving, unfortunattely we don’t live in a perfect world. It’s unrealistic to expect that everything could actually be perfect. Life is tough for everyone in different ways. Try telling the poor folks living in shop doorways who are getting pee’d on by drunks, that they are actually straight privilaged and maybe white privilaged too. There’s a big danger when you start pinning what may be viewd by many as a negative label as being straight privilaged. Instead of helping the cause of gay people, you could just be fuelling further resentment in tbe straight community. Same goes for any other privilage label out there, because in spite of what you explained earlier, that still appears to categorise a huge number of the population in a negative way, like it or not.

Simple answer is, they’re a laugh a minute and they’d give some top level comedians a run for their in terms of laugh potential. Difference.is, I’d pay good money to see a good comedian, but I’d pay f all towards that lot …… especially when you can read all about it on this thread! We dont call them The Gift for nothing mate!!!

The labels I’m referring to Dave are white privilage, male privilage and straight privilage. Although I didn’t directly answer your question, it was what I inferred in my answer. Just to clarify, of course a gay couple should be able to show affection. As I said, they should just be mindful of the same standards of public decency and respect to others that we’d expect from a straight couple. There will obviously be some people who might find the actions of a straight couple as an acceptable standard, while the same level with a gay couple could make them uncomfortable. That’s a personal thing for them, but in this day and age, they’ll just have to suck it up and accept it. The only issue I see is if a gay couple go completely OTT, and then start shouting homophobia if someone gets upset by that.

In my opinion, the division is being caused by the people creating or quoting the labels. Society has moved on a long way, but granted there will still be the occasional brainless ignoramous making improper comments regarding ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, tall, short, disability, you name it. That doesn’t mean the rest of normal society should have a negative label attached to them, just because of the idiots. Another issue is appropriate behaviour. As an example, I’ll bet many of us have seen a straight couple who are getting a bit worked up, to a level where it can make some people around them uncomfortable and it could well attract negative comments. If a gay couple were behaving in the same way, would everyone around them have to keep quiet, for fear of being accused of being homophobic? The way I see it, it’s down to all of us to be respectful of the feelings of the people around us and behave appropriately. As in my example, that applies equally, whether you are straight or gay, or come under any other label you want to attach. If you then get morons throwing insults, they should be dealt with appropriately in return. It definitely doesn’t achieve anything by sticking a label on everyone in society though.

We’ll if that’s the opinion of the Forest fan, then he’s perfectly entitled to it. I’m right with him in terms of the obnoxious chants, but as soon as he starts banging on about the various privilages, that’s when I’m out! All this privilage guff is exactly what’s causing divisions in our society. It’s turning people into either a superior or victim, strictly due to gender, sexual orientation or skin colour. Imho, that’s total crap and people are what, or who they are and nobody gains anything from having these discriminatory labels attached. As far as I’m concerned, that’s just the sort of divisive rubbish we should be getting rid of. Rather than driving massive wedges between various elements of our society, they should be emphasising what we all share in common, as there’s plenty.

A lot of interesting stuff there and you make some really valid points. We could go on a very long time with this discussion, though I’m sure we’d be struggling for time! To explain my statement about feeling we are more divided than I can ever remember, I mean us as a society. The older examples you gave, such as the miner’s strike and the various riots in particular were the people against the authorities. Now it feels to me to be far more divisive, as it’s within society itself and is people against people. In addition to the examples I previously mentioned, I’ll add Brexit to the modern examples and I doubt there’s anybody who would deny that was and is a massively divisive issue within the population! Whereas those disputes of old eventually had a final resolution, my concern for our modern differences is their potential for escalation, easily fuelled through social media. I fear racial issues are a particularly dangerous one and a potential powderkeg. Although as you mention, social media can be a brilliant communication tool, it can also be a devastating weapon when used in a negative way. The potential for sowing unrest within society through mis-informatiin is limitless and can have the effect of throwing fuel on the fire in disputes when used in a malovolent way. As you say, we’re still coming to grips with this media and it’s a massively complex issue. You need freedom of speech, though deliberate misinformation can be very dangerous, whilst on the other hand, censorship is equally dangerous. Then you have the very real issue of hacking by criminals and even by rival nations. Who knows how this will all pan out, but the genie is out of the bottle, so we’ll just have to wait and see. Anyway, as it’s a football forum, better get back to the main subject …… great win yesterday!!! ?

Interesting points Rebounder, but I think we massively differ on your second paragraph, given the huge and disproportionate power advantage Israel hold over the Palestinians. The Israeli state seems incapable of taking criticism and it often claims any legitimate criticism of their treatment of the Palestinian people as being anti-semitic. The beleagered Palestinians, virtually imprisoned in the ever shrinking scrap of their own land they’ve been left with, don’t have the luxury of that extra shield! I’m far from saying anti-semitism doesn’t exist, but there do seem to be many people who try to dodge straightforward criticism by claiming it’s anti-semitic. As for my previous post, the equality issues I’m referring to are more to do with the negative aspects of the ever growing woke culture. My problem with it is, although promoted as positive action, it can often be negative. Rather than promoting equality, very often the woke community actually increase division. Whether it’s racial issues, sexual orientation, climate change or whatever, they aren’t celebrating what we as a people have in common, but are just magnifying and arguing over the differences. Not only that, but there is often no tolerance of alternative views. Rather than agreeing to disagree, cancel culture often kicks in and there is a concerted drive to destroy anyone who persists with an alternative opinion to theirs. We’ve seen many examples of this and we are never going to achieve the harmony most people would prefer while this ideology persists. I can’t ever remember so many divisions in this country during my lifetime and we are now getting to the ridiculous situation when even the gay and trans communities are now forced into battling each other. I agree with you there are people who are deliberately sowing and benefitting from this division, though I suspect much of this comes from powerful individuals and self interest groups, with the government just being dragged along, rather than actually leading. While this situation is allowed to continue, imho we’ve got zero chance of real equality, as that wouldn’t suit many of the same self-interest groups, as it would diminish their own power.

Yesss massive win, brilliant job you Reds!!!!

Was there too at that game, somwere around the halfway line if I remember rightly. We talk about the Mem being bad, but that place really was a total stain on the Bristol landscape.

There’s also an important thing that’s often passed over in these sort of situations. Whilst ‘mainstream’ society is told it should be accepting and tolerant towards the various minority groups, that same same level of tolerance doesn’t seem to be expected from the minority groups themselves. Until that gets addressed, we’ll probably never get to a point where we reach true equality for everyone sadly.

I’ll say right here, I’m pro Pearson, as I’m convinced he is exactly what was needed to give this club the massive shake up it needed and clear the decks of the crap we’ve accumulated. That said, the longer we go on, the more I’m convinced he’s only part of the solution and we are still missing that other vital part, namely reinforcement on the coaching side. Even our most optimistic fans couldn’t argue the case that NP is getting the best out of the players available to him and the longer this continues, the less likely it seems that this will change. The fans are all lamenting the basic errors we continue to make, the piss poor corner, throw in and general set-piece routines and our slow, unimaginative build-up play. We can see it, but it still continues. NP had admitted coaching isn’t his main area of expertise, so what help is he getting from the current coaching set-up? I think NP can complete the shake up this club so urgently needed but imho, it’s becoming increasingly obvious he needs coaching help to get things working on the pitch, as he doesn’t appear capable of achieving this on his own.

Wow! It’s been discussed before, but what exactly would actually be gained from a merger with that lot? Huge fanbase? Money? Great stadium? Better league standing? Great history? Nope, they’d add absolutely bugger all to what we’ve already got and would contaminate our club in the process. Only people who would gain from a merger are the sags!

….. haven’t they realised, this could have bought them some Championship ready drainage to go with their sprinklers on the cabbage patch???

Thank god he never got Ashton & Johnson Ltd to do the ground redevelopment as well, or we’d be well and truly f****d!

Right with you? I can still clearly remember the buzz you used to get at evening matches when the lights went down. It was a feeling of, right here we go then and your adrenaline would start pumping and all your attention would be on the pitch. Never got that same magic with them bleedin lights on? As you say, they probably want the Rugby crowd, but we don’t have the benefit of taking our beers to the seats!!!

Exactly and that’s my main point, I don’t think the club will fight any fan causes. It’ll be interesting to see if the new CEO has any input, given Palace’s seemingly much more fan friendly attitude. Think it’s pretty nailed on that Steve’s response would be something along the lines of ‘we’re not having any of that nonsense here’.

Quite so, but sometimes it’s just the little things that make a difference. Imagine going to the cinema, or theatre and they keep the main auditorium lighting on throughout the performance. Not going to happen as it kills the viewing experience. It doesn’t seem to bother our club though, even though well acknowledged to really detract from the spectator’s experience. I get there’s the SAG, but plenty of other clubs get round that problem. We often discuss on here the muted atmosphere at the Gate and I think this is a big factor, along with dumping the most vocal section of the fanbase right in the corner of the ground. Just two examples of why I just don’t believe the supporters come that high on the owner’s priority list to brutally honest.

Can’t argue with any of that tbh. Football has certainly changed and whilst some things have improved, there’s much that makes me feel increasingly distanced from the club. The sad thing is, there’s little sign of that situation improving.

To be fair, we always do when we play a Warnock team!

It’s what they do best …… stealing and scrounging.

We fans can clearly see how corrupt this organisation is, yet international football seems happy for FIFA to represent them. Really makes you wonder how deeply that corruption has penetrated into football for this to be tolerated.

Now wouldn’t that be brilliant! Can’t honestly see that happening, as SL will be a hard nut to crack, but we can live in hope I suppose. I never get the feeling nowadays that this club actually wants partizan support and they actually seem to go out of their way to prevent that happening, as in your points in the highlighted paragraph. It feels like the main aim is to get fans to pay over their money, sit down and shut up. I think it’s so ingrained now that there are many of our fans who don’t even stand at away grounds where it’s allowed. There’s no doubt that our dire home form doesn’t help. It’s hard to really believe the team is capable rousing themselves at home, when the last few years of experience demonstrates we very rarely can!