firstdivision

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Wasn’t the change I’d have made.

I couldn’t believe it. And then after he played for a bit, I couldn’t believe it even more.

Nothing against him at all but the substitution was extraordinary.

1972-73 season: we didn't win at home until 25 November, our 9th game of the season at the Gate. We beat Sunderland 1-0. John Galley slid the ball in at the Open End late on from a low right-wing cross. I can remember the relief and joy. 

21 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Correct.  The trend is downwards too.  Over the first 6-8 games most of our stats were hovering around mid-table, a few just below….shots / goals conceded top hakf (believe it or not).  But over the last 6 games we’ve slumped right down.

To be fair, Dave, we’ve only needed our eyes to see that.  

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The linesman should NOT flag unless he is sure that Weimann passed it.

He will be mic’d up to the ref, and I’m sure will be asking “was it a City or WBA player that touched it”, ref will be saying, “was Wells offside at the point of contact, because it was Weimann who touched it”.

Therefore they did what they were meant to do.

Worse would’ve been for the limo to guess and flag offside.

Thoughtful analysis as always, Dave. I agree.

(I thought Weimann played it and it was offside.)

The only thing I thought was it should have been a foul to us. Weimann cleaned out before Wells was offside. But ref seem to forget that in the aftermath.

15 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

NP’s interview was, as usual,realistic.  He looked very fed up, as well he might.

I like the way he faces us to the reality.

The next task is for him to raise the players’ game.  I wish him well and certainly don’t envy him.  We can’t expect him to make silk purses out of sows’ ears overnight.  I just hope he doesn’t get so fed up that he walks.

Ivor, do you mean fed up with his inability to motivate or organise the team? If so, I would have thought him walking away would be perfect - we wouldn’t have to pay him off. 

1 hour ago, WessexPest said:

B******s, b******s and thrice b******s.

Did anyone, hand on heart, anticipate anything other than a comprehensive defeat this afternoon? I didn’t.

Cast your mind back two seasons when we were on the wrong end of a similar hiding at the Hawthorns as LJ’s stock began to plummet big style - progress since then has been negligible.

We’ve too many distinctly ordinary players, too many promising but raw youngsters who lack the experience to rumble with the big boys at this level, and a coach who increasingly doesn’t seem to know how to set us up.

The number of stupid errors, lapses in concentration and, of course, amateurish inability to see out a game is getting extremely tedious. And that Nathan Baker must be made of Waterford Crystal.

I’m not out of patience with NP, largely because burning through managers eventually saw us go down last time, but his tenure has been deeply underwhelming on the whole. Perhaps I’m still smarting from that horrendous collapse in midweek, but it all feels pretty ominous I’m afraid.

You are right, of course, about what we thought the result might be. What I did expect though was a collective determination to make it difficult for a better team. Didn’t see that at all in the first half. We were passive. spineless and harmless - an embarrassment. We were lucky not to be 5-0 down at half time. Reminded me of Watford (away) last season and we know what happened soon after that.

As for the rest, I pretty much agree. 

11 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I do care about us being awful but I have laughed a few times this afternoon. Like that Simpson pass out for a throw

And me. I’d love to do a Simpson compilation video.

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I hope there is a real blow-up at h-t.  A few home truths needed.

Bents very poor for their second goal.

Why is White asking Trego how City sort this out second half.  Trego in fairness is coming across okay, but I hate White's comms.  Toby much better.  Sorry, rather deflect how bad City have been to talk about Robinstv.

Correct, Dave. That first half was embarrassing. Reminded me of Watford away last season. We’re lucky it’s not 5-0. They are better than us but through organisation, mindset and some clarity of thought, we could be doing a lot better. 

2-0. We’re lucky it’s not six. Not much different to the first half at Watford.

3 hours ago, One Team said:

It’d be so Bristol City that we’d actually get a win today though!

Like last weekend…’we haven’t won at home since the Crimean war; just like us to beat the top team.’

59 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

 

Yep, I was most certainly there.

I mentioned the match in the recent thread about favourite away matches - it was just after the 0-0 draw away to Sunderland, two very tense matches that were so important and integral to our promotion.

I think we drew 1-1 at Sunderland and the Sunderland match was after West Brom. We took the lead at Roker Park and looked to be heading for another dramatic win but Mel Holden equalised with about 10 minutes left.

7 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Is that the one where John Emmanuel and Willie Johnston were sent off?

It was the one we won 1-0 at the Hawthorns in the second half of our glorious 1976 promotion season. WBA were one of our main rivals. They absolutely battered us but couldn’t score. I think Gerry Sweeney scored the winner. 
Think QPR a few weeks ago but with added daring escapes (and a proper top-of-the-table clash).

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I have a friend/work colleague who’s a Wycombe fan. When I say to him: ‘are you still playing rugby?’ he smiles and nods.

16th and sinking. Lost 3 out of the last 4. Can’t win at home. West Brom and some other tricky fixtures to come before the end of November. I can feel the cold chill of winter on a mild night. 
Nige will sort it out though…that’s what they tell me anyway.

7 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I typed out a few things on various platforms last night, but deleted all of them. They ended up being a bit random and bitter.
So I'll try and organise my thoughts a little better this morning.

Firstly I thought we did ok first half, touch and go whether we deserved 1-0 , but not a massively undeserved scoreline.
      Scott was excellent (apart from that miss), and the midfield hadn't looked as weak as I'd expected. Defence looked good, Baker was old school Baker (Johnson looked terrified) and we were well in the game with noses in front.

Not sure what was said at half time, you expect them to calm out quickly, but it looked like we had been told to try and hold what we had.  We never got any foothold in the game, no forward momentum and definitely no control.
I hate that we bring everyone back at corners, at one stage it allowed all 10 Forest outfield players in the final 3rd, the keeper acting sweeper near half way. When we cleared it comes straight back, leave someone anyone up front, just to keep defender honest and give us chance to get out.
We have, for ages , defended too deep at the end of games. Now this has been, pressure from teams chasing a goal, fatigue meaning players drop deeper to cover plus the simple fact we cannot put a series of passes together to keep the ball and so see the game out. Last night that started from the kick off. 
Even if you play on the break (which I'm not sure we do by design, more being dominated constantly) , you need to be able to look after the ball. Wells made some good runs and that chip (I actually mentioned there was a chance 5 minutes before) shows his eye for goal, but we didn't have the control to get a decent pass away. Martin had got some good headers and flicks in but he looked like he was struggling a bit so I thought HNM was a good move. Though I expected Scott might have been first because of Nige love of Martin. Forests control and dominance made it hard for Masengo to make a real impact, though he did some nice twists & turns and nicked the ball a few times. Again because we were so deep, space was rare so Scott had become a little less effective, plus cramp , Palmer turned out to be equally ineffective. 
Still we were defending well, if too deep ( I may have mentioned that before) and Forest seemed to be getting desperate with long shots. The change of Wells for COD was strange, yet not so. I though Nhaki had a good game, and if anyone was liable to nick a goal it would be him. Then again, he had lost his footing a few times, looked frustrated, and more to the point service had all but dried up as we couldn't get decent possession. Now I can see the reasoning, COD is a good runner & Pacey . Get it to feet and he could have caused their defence real problems . It just didn't happen. 
One thing I will say, it was not a nailed on Pen. I've seen them given, but on first view it looked like he went down easily. The Ref seemed to point at the ball, so I guess he thought the defender got a touch, but also he didn't book Scott so I imagine he thought there was contact.

TBF Baker had been excellent, but I sat down as soon as Baker started to dive in. I didn't need the Ref to give the decision, even from 80 yards away it was obvious. Not only that, I was waiting for the 2nd goal. Defend like that, after chasing shadows for 45 minutes and you just just can't change your mindset and get out on the front foot. I wanted to be seeing ALL the touchline staff screaming to get out as soon as we started defending from our own area. 

We had started to see signs of improvement, and I do think in many ways we are better than we have been previously. But sadly the one thing, the main problem is exactly the same as it's been for over 2 years. We don't keep the ball, we don't control games and so we can't defend leads. Now IMO, it's partly mindset, though Pearson had started to address that with James & King. Partly nerves and partly the ability to pass to our own players in space and a big part of that, is lack of movement.
And there is the catch 22.
Because we lack movement we can't find the easy pass.
Because we can't find the easy pass we tend to go longer.
Because we go longer, we lose the ball more.
Because we lose the ball more.
Because we lose the ball more, we end up chasing the ball more.
Because we chase the ball more, we tire quicker.
Because we tire quicker we lack movement repeat to fade.

It's not a new thing, we suffered the same under Johnson, we suffered the same under Holden and , so far, Pearson has struggled to change it. Maybe having Williams fit might make a difference, but I don't think it's down to players, totally. It's coaching and mindset , as soon as a player passes the ball it seems like that's his job done. What we need is for that player to just move a yard to give the option of the ball back, while others do the same. We are static.
When a Forest player was fronted up, and we never really got tight too often, he had an option. If there wasn't one there, someone would make a run. Again they were streets ahead of us on the ball. The 2nd half was Bournemouth levels of dominance and if Forest had their levels of quality , Forest would have won much earlier. 
Make no mistake, this is a big, big job. One that, sadly may be too big for Pearson.

I apologise for the ramble, but at least it's off my chest now. I shall now pretend I don't like football for the next few days.

A quick precis. We are a very ordinary side with no pace that struggles to hold possession or pass the ball. We rely on defending deep and playing on the break without the outlets to do this reliably or very effectively. We are dull to watch and it threatens to be a challenging winter.  

41 minutes ago, Banjo Red said:

He has to shift on the dross we have been left with from the chuckle. Brothers. He had to keep some of these below par players as he couldn't  get rid of everybody. There are players in the squad who are either not settled in BS3 or disinterested. The likes of Odowda Palmer Wells Simpson Martin Bakinson Vyner just not good enough. I ask but one thing let's remember the kids are hungry let's let them have a go, Tanner has showed he is up for the fight and I'm sure the rest would be.

I saw the kids last season (and looked what happened). Only Scott looked like he was at the required level at the time (that's not their fault by the way). No surprise that NP has barely included any of them. There's a lot of bogus PR circulating around our club and 'we have some stunning prospects' I fear is in that bracket. One or two solid prospects who might make a reasonable Championship player - possibly.

Play the kids - we'll struggle even more. The judicious use of one or two of them would be acceptable but 'play the kids' is pie in the sky. NP knows that. That's why he's not played them (apart from Scott who is on a completely different level).

2 hours ago, Herta said:

He got months to try the job before taking it permanently.

While he retains my support it’s utterly ludicrous this idea that he didn’t know what he was getting into and feeling sorry for him is just weird. 

Completely agree. 

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

Which suggests that you think Nige doesn’t know what he’s doing………….

That's pretty a big leap from your assertion that it's obvious why Steve Cooper is doing well at Forest - and me asking you why is he doing so well. 

You can have my view on NP if you want, but I'm more interested to know why you think SC has done so well at Forest.

19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Who? Cooper?

 

Yes.

19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Why do you suppose that is?   

Why do you suppose it is?

My instinctive response was: ‘because he knows what he’s doing.’

1 minute ago, richyy66 said:

Odowda was not at fault for the last few mminutes of madness. I agree i think he should be moved on but to blame him for the defeat is a little harsh.

Not only harsh, it’s utterly ridiculous. 

The ball came back pretty much all second half. At least, it did in the game I was watching.

48 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

You can’t keep blaming the past coaches….Pearson and his coaching staff have had plenty of time to get into their heads and at least make them a well organised, tough team to beat even if we don’t play spectacular football.

 

At last some sense on this subject. Unbelievable how Lee Johnson crops up here regularly if we’ve lost. 
Steve Cooper has won almost as many matches at Forest in five minutes as Nigel Pearson has since February. He’s even won a home game.

You’re right, of course. 
Logistically, not as easy to put away fans in another part of the ground (upper tier of Lansdown perhaps). 
Crowd atmosphere not helped by dire home form and few (no) players to get anyone excited. Bournemouth are a good side but we were so passive. Grim performance.

12 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Don’t overreact? You said yourself could have been 4 or 5. This is at home mind you. That level of performance is unacceptable against any side in our division. They started 4 players with less than 20 championship games under their belt. Yes they are better. Yes not many expected points but we were embarrassed. We have played better against better championship sides in recent seasons. 
 

There is no overreaction. We were poor all over the park and the disappointment is that includes desire and toughness. This sets the bar for worst performance imo and if we have a few more like it, I’d start to worry. That said, I expect much better on Tuesday and anticipate it’ll be better. Just need to store this under can’t happen again.

Well said. 
Our performance was largely awful. Peterborough drew 0-0 with Bournemouth because they had a game plan. I didn’t see one from us.

I thought NP had a poor day as well. With Williams off injured, the subbing of O’Dowda at half-time was totally unnecessary and risky, especially with Pring (barely lasts a game) still on the park plus a couple of old lags. Three subs instead of five makes a difference.
But I also didn’t see a game plan. We just let them have a day out in the sunshine. Utter dross.