Derby_Ram

Am sure the value of the stadium has been done to death on more than one occasion in here ?. However as a summary Derby valued it at £81.1m using a DRC model - how much it'd cost to build a replacement for the stadium. When the charge about the stadium was reviewed there was agreement by both sides that DRC was the right approach to take. The commission then determined the valuation should fall between £77.4m - £89.5m with a midpoint of £83.5m. Forgetting the rights and wrongs of clubs being able to sell their own grounds for the purpose of FFP Derby did not overvalue Pride Park here. Conceivably they could have put a few extra £m on it and it would have passed the case brought about it. Over the last few years one area the EFL did get it wrong re Derby was the appointment of their expert on stadium valuation. His evidence was heavily criticised - in particular using new stadium with a mix of terracing and seats, and with inferior facilities as his comparison to Pride Park to reach his valuation - and he was just not experienced enough to do this (guessing the amount of experience one can get on stadium valuations has massively increased the last few years!!). As for what the stadium is worth now - should it be £81.1m? No. If you haven't got a football team to play in it what are you going use it for? In 2018 when the case was judged land value was put between £3.2m - £4.1m so a relatively small amount in the scheme of things. If MM (MSD) sell the ground now then the valuation switches to what a buyer would pay not a DRC method, and for a one club city and a stadium with limited demand for other events its a much lower value. Besides everyone else's understandable scorn and anger there should be no consequences to the club of the stadium being sold for significantly less than the £81.1m it was put on the books at. The loophole should never of existed in the first place.

I guess this is where we differ in opinions and the view in the stadium on match days is different from a lot of what you'll see on social media and in fans forums. Don't get me wrong there's still plenty of chants 'F the EFL' chants - but you'll find them after an iffy decision and ironically as opposed to being a real point of ire. I've said it before and to me it still holds true - MM has no presence online. Every other party does. When you have a focal point who you know will see what blame/abuse/constructive discussion is written that's what unsurprisingly comes to the fore. MM has vanished. If he appeared online or heaven forbid at the ground you would see something very different. edit: and to how do we feel about him benefitting from any sale? Everyone I've spoken to detests it. I think you'll know from my posts on here that I feel the same. But it probably also won't shock you that every Derby fan I've spoken to would rather that outcome if it helped facilitate a new owner and us starting next year in League One - even more so if it's on zero point ?

Head of DCC was up in Preston and met the EFL for around 3 hours today. CK dialled in on Zoom. Although nothing official is announced it strongly feels like there is am agreement between DCC/CK in place. CK is also in Derby tomorrow for a day of meetings with various parties including MPs. I'm still highly dubious that CK will follow through on completing a deal but I'm cautiously optimistic that the stadium stumbling block is being removed by DCC; albeit in a less than satisfactory way. I'm concerned about what the HMRC will say when it comes down to it - all the noises from local media is thay they're onboard with the 'plan' - but given that's from Quantuma briefings it makes me suspect the opposite! Though beggars can't be choosers I was always in the MA camp. However CKs twitter Q+As have been remarkably refreshing and if he does complete I think it'll be an interesting journey. Odds are he won't complete....but it really takes a strange individual to do all the things he has done/is doing.

I don't think Pearson would have an issue at all. My issue on that would be from your perspective as fans ?. If he can turn around and get the players all fired up to come flying out the traps in a pretty much meaningless game to them, against a better team(!!), with a cracking home record, why hasn't he been doing it all year? Excluding points penalties I make it you'd be 3 points clear of the relegation zone and it would be a huge game. Obviously an element of tongue-in-cheek in that comment, and I'm intrigued to see how our players cope with the last month as its been a draining year all round the club, but I do think there'd be valid question marks if you're suddenly on fire come the 23rd.

I think your confidence is misplaced. QPR on Easter Monday is the holder of the lucky ticket for that one. In reality though if it does reach the 23rd we both know it'll be Reading getting the required points as opposed to you winning that'll see us go relegated that day. Chrissy Martin just wouldn't allow it ?

Well known locally if not on a wider basis. Caused quite a rumpus a couple of months ago when it emerged one of the fans largely responsible for mobilising the fans and engaging MPs was Patrick's son and questions over whether he was doing that to deflect attention from MM. He did call out MM - could have made for an interesting Sunday lunch with dad - but being an ex-advisor to10 Downing Street was useful in the campaign by knowing how to successfully engage the MPs and get a parliamentary question asked.

If creditors don't get at least 25% back then there will be another deduction (personal view is it should be 1pt per percentage point shy of 100% you are) but it doesn't automatically kick in next season. We could turn around and say that we'll pay back more but over a longer period in which case the deduction won't be applied immediately, and only then if we then don't pay back 35%. We'd be under a strict business plan which you'd assume would make being competitive harder but we could start next year on zero.

Do keep up; imminently.

Finally some movement and more hope of a club next season although frustrating that any progress took until this late in the date. I'm angry that it's taken DCC seemingly coming up with a solution to get Kirchner back to the table as to me that can only mean MM not taking a hit + HMRC/taxpayers being shafted. Maybe it's a fan-view, and a non football council tax payer would look at it differently, but I believe long-term the council would be better off dipping into coffers now and having the benefit of the club and what that brings to the local economy but that'll only be able to be truly understood years down the line if it happens. Totally understand someone with a wholly opposite view though. I'm nowhere convinced Kirchner will end up our owner and he's not someone I'd choose based on character; but the EFL seemed not to have an issue when he completed the F+PP test last year according to local radio. Let's see. I think it'll fall down if a condition of his bid is on -15 this season however more encouraging is a further few twitter conversations today on the post Mr P posted from Kieran Maguire last night. Kieran has seemingly confirmed -15 wouldn't be applied next year if 25p/£ isn't met as we' then have 3 years to pay 35%. Murky, not convinced its fair, but I'll take it although come 25/26 season when we start on -15 I may change my tune. Finally looking forward to - shock horror - talking some actual football with you ahead of next week.

Thanks for the amusement catching up on a couple of weeks worth of posts on this thread. Pretty confident some of you lot spend more than time Quantuma looking into us. According to the Daily Telegraph 3 live bids in ahead of tomorrow with Appleby - always known to be one of the still interested three previously - fighting to be able to be able to get a fourth in place. However the bids would still incur a deduction next season as expected. The three current bids without Appleby being one is a little perplexing. Unfounded rumours have mentioned Mel's name which I fear would lead to me spontaneously combusting. Anyway, expect a preferred bidder to be announced in the next 12 months.

Combination of things. Players running out of steam, losing Jagielka and Shinnie in January, Lawrence's petulance and subsequent three match ban, pressure suddenly arriving when it looked like we had a chance whereas before the team was playing with freedom as we were already doomed. We were very solid until Jan and whilst Cashin - next youngster off the line - has been our best player in the last month; Jagielka had such a calming presence about him and since he went we've started shipping goals. Upfront we've been powderpuff all season and if you discount Ebosele's pace and power, and Lawrence ability to do something out of nothing we're very easy to play against. Before we still had a reasonable chance of grinding out a point but those 0-0s are becoming 0-1. Can't knock any of the players this season but the youngsters need resting for a few games and then bringing them back in but there's no one to rotate them with. Ironically if any of the play-off squads from the previous years had this lots bottle, attitude and commitment we'd have done a QPR, Villa etc and gone up and not into admin. It's just catching up on the players.

I hear what you say Dave and no matter however people try and be objective there's always an element of confirmation bias in place. The smokescreen of MM/SG always provided that element of doubt and depending which side of a fence you sit and how strongly rose tinted your glasses are you'll take differing views. It is one of the things that frustrated me most before with everything. Things could have moved quicker, pressure could have been applied in the right places but there was always something to hide behind that you couldn't one hundred percent disprove. That went and they've shot themselves in the foot. Interestingly the Beeb now reporting that privately the admin saying bids in, they're clarifying matters and will announce a PB this week. It just doesn't wash any more. Survival qualifying as success - yes it would. It would still leave me feeling bitter and angry about what has transpired. If we shaft every last creditor when MM could pay them all fully then morally I'm repulsed. But I'll also be candid and say I'd be glad we still had a club. A rightfully despised club for screwing people over but it'd still be mine and as much as I may hate what happens they're still my club.

It was nice having a couple of weeks when we could actually 'enjoy' the football - typically it's coincided with a dodgy run of form/the team is shot to bits and running on empty - but we're back now waiting for these 'imminent' updates. A couple of things have rung out loud and clear. Namely what we suspected all along in that Quantuma have a lot to answer for. To an extent their ability was hidden away by the MM/SG spat but coming out on local radio immediately after to say things will move at pace and a PB within 10 days has well and truly exposed them. How much is linked to MM's involvement with them remains to be seen. They should never have had to be involved in the first place for reasons we all know but if I ever see them involved in another admin everyone has my sympathy. Am I still hopeful? Yes. 3 interested parties prior to the MM/SG resolution and given none of them have publicly walked away - Ashley wouldn't do so without full-on spitting his dummy out - gives belief there will still be a purchaser. It does lead onto the next thing coming through loud and clear though in that if none of them could get a deal over the line yet, the likelihood of starting next year on -15 looms larger by the day. There is a purchaser out there but at a price. In reality a price that impacts us next year but that'll also anger other clubs as is another 15 point deduction sufficient. In my mind the last thing needed is another extension because all that happens is we go right up to it with little progress and repeat the cycle. A hard deadline imposed by the EFL would focus minds and stop more money being wasted on admin fees etc when it should be used to pay creditors more than they'll end up getting. If it means we go pop we go pop, but right now we're approaching Groundhog Day. Again.

Fair warning that this is typical of many local newspaper sites - full of ads and ridiculous scrolling required - but Quantuma have broken cover in a joint interview with local radio and newspaper https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-middlesbrough-efl-gibson-6646390 In summary they can't detail nature of the agreement with Morris/Gibson. Will reach out to Wycombe and don't forsee any issues. Progress should be quick from here and preferred bidder in 10 days or so. The audio version betrays a clear annoyance with the EFL. Finally the pressure can be directed squarely at one group. They've been a disaster so far but over to Quantuma to deliver.

Or just get Gibson and Morris to talk to one another. Now the pressure goes to Quantuma....

With the exception of a couple of off-the-cuff interviews on local radio and news you're right about the MPs. It's not just the Tories either, Margaret Beckett has been the same. In an ideological world I'd like to think that's because they're all fully onboard with the fan led review and see Derby as the perfect vehicle to drive that message but with the exception of the Bury MP's eloquent speech I think I'd be living in cloud cuckoo land if I believed it to be true. My opinion and it is only that, is the MPs don't criticise Morris for two reasons. Firstly they genuinely do want the club to survive and they wouldn't have the cut-through getting the emergency question in Parliament and it remaining on the news agenda if they'd have made it about Morris as opposed to the EFL and other clubs claims. The second reason is they know it won't work. He doesn't have a personal issue with any of them. Re-read his statement last week and I challenge you to not picture Mad Mel sat at his desk frothing at the mouth as he brain dumped absolutely every point of contention he has with the EFL and Gibson who are both under his skin - whether or not it had any merit, or whether or not it was related to the current situation. It's been building up and up and his ego and personal grudge is what provoked him to respond. He doesn't have a personal issue with the MPs or others and calling him out will fall on death ears. Just look at Derby fans paying St John's Ambulance as evidence of that. Something so basic, so easy to fix, but he had vanished. As a fan it puts you in a quandary. You want your club to survive, know it could be resolved by Morris doing the honourable thing, but recognise the best chance to survive is focus the attention elsewhere - as much because there is interaction with the other stakeholders and they don't want to be portrayed as being a reason another club dies. We're in a world of social media and briefings online. Rick Parry spent a Saturday evening a couple of weekends ago responding individually to Derby fans emails in addition to the EFL at the time appearing very rattled with their oddly timed statements and contents. Morris doesn't have that online presence. By default more and more gets directed at those who do respond - MPs, Parry, the EFL in general, Quantuma and Gibson. If Morris was visible he'd get a lot more heat and its why in the ground the stance is more anti Morris/Pearce than appears online. It'll leave a very bitter taste in the mouth if it's how we do come out of it the other side but I believe its our best chance. Not Morris. Sadly. Along with most I'm highly dubious that Morris' offer to personally take on the claims is possible. This is where I do want Gibson to come out and say just that (although preferably now after tomorrow's game rather than today) and pile the pressure back on Morris. It shouldn't take a week for anyone to say it can't be done if it really can't. My preference would be for him to indemnify the club against any legal action as an alternative to what he's suggested but my thought process - again just that - is it may not fly elsewhere. If I'm sat at the HMRC and I see Morris offer an indemnity my first thought is "hang on, you want us to take a haircut on what we're owed when in a few months time you 'could' be paying Boro/Wycombe £40m+?". If Derby - via Morris - can pay that amount then you could also pay us the full amount now and we're not going to play ball. Frankly I couldn't blame them. Apologies for the long message, but if you're on this thread.....!

There's been trouble - away from the grounds - a few times we've played each other recently. Even before the last couple of years. The atmosphere will be toxic and even though I'm travelling up I feel more dread and apprehension as opposed to watching a game a football. A sad state of affairs and I feel for any families attending supporting either club. Didn't see the full segment so no idea if Mel was mentioned by him anywhere but the HMRC debt did pop up in another clip - swiftly followed by his view that Boro/Wycombe are still the stumbling block (don't worry - I'm fully onboard that Mel should settle his bills... ?)

And for those who haven't noticed we have the small matter of a trip to Boro this weekend. Given the rubbish Sky pick I have no idea how this one hasn't been moved from Saturday 3pm for live TV (or on police advice).

I can't wait for the day this topic vanishes from the first page of this forum ? Supporters meeting with Quantuma today and the 31st Jan deadline for resubmission of accounts was discussed. Extension was agreed with the EFL and they should be posted within the next few days - not imminently, just the next few days! Then we can go back around everything again. In the meantime I'm hoping someone else braves coach one in the next few weeks....

Bold....is one word. Finally coming out of the woodwork and seemingly offering a solution to this impasse. Now if only he'd settle his tax bill and pay the other creditors I could be happy.

Nah, no need. Vanishing Mel has broke cover and done it on their behalf. No idea where to start or finish with it all.

Whether we survive or not Quantuma have a lot to answer for. This is where the EFL have to pull their finger out. They have to say whether they believe the claim - and Wycombe's - fall under football creditors or not. Do I believe Quantuma will announce a PB if the claim is ruled not - dubious. But they have to decide and decide quickly.

Matt Slater from the Athletic did a podcast interview with Rick Parry last year where he discussed the chain of events. Over the last couple of days the local MPs alluded to it in their comments post meeting the EFL. In today's meeting between the admin and MPs it appears the admin have clung onto it too although I take anything Quantuma say with a large pinch of salt.

Afternoon again. Finally we have some more clarification on where we seem to be at - even if we don't like the position. As much as I know Mel Morris is to blame and the admin have been less use than the proverbial chocolate teapot the push to get MPs involved and pressure on the EFL is at least pulling all the components into the open. As a fan I'd much rather know the true position than be left wondering. The admin have committed to a statement today - however after reading the MPs updates post a meeting with them this afternoon I can see what's going to be said: "we're screwed if Boro/Wycombe don't drop their claims as player sales wouldn't cover what else we can recoup". Don't shoot the messenger - I know MM could resolve this and am perplexed by the MPs at least not flagging this. The Labour MPs especially I thought would bring this up more. Couple of questions had been directed at me before from a couple of days ago EFL - admitting they authorised Boro to sue us on order that they themselves didn't get sued. In the first hearing the choice of an expert on ground valuation of the ground who was anything but/didn't do their work to sufficient standard. Don't get me wrong - we're the guilty party but examples of things which leave us nervous about EFLs ability related to Derby. Their last statement where they spent however many paragraphs saying they don't have a vendetta was remarkable! Mr P - noticed a few references to deadline of this month for accounts to be restated. There were discussions between us/EFL after this ruling along the lines of we can't restate them as whilst the amortisation policy wasn't in line with what EFL wanted it was from a legal perspective a method which didn't break the law. How that ended up I don't know and I'm not qualified to know, but that was the discussion between Derby/EFL at the time. Again I can't defend MM. I won't. I just want my club not to be liquidated. I want MM to pay and don't understand why more pressure across the board isn't exerted on him but at the minute our best chance appears EFL/Boro/Wycombe.

Totally agree about the admins. Unfortunately not willing to face up to local media and answer questions. Would love them to be open as possible and answer but it's not forthcoming. I do think without the Boro/WW cases we'd have a preferred bidder in place even though that doesn't guarantee we'd end up sorting this it's the next step. Either way they're not covering themselves in glory at all and I feel for Rooney who has been fed a load of bull and still working wonders. But, where we are as a club now, what is easier to gain traction with media, MPs and other fans? Highlighting the EFL who every fan is aware of as opposed to a bunch of Admins who 99% of people in Derby couldn't name let alone anywhere else. When you're desperate you'll do whatever it takes to get someone to take note and the last couple of days it seems to be beginning. Where do you want to start?!?! I could point to peculiarities in the original case brought against us but you'd accuse me of it being part of a conspiracy! I will use Derby as a case in point though. Do you trust them as fit for purpose for letting the situation go on as long as it did? Do you think they did everything in their powers to support Bury and Macclesfield? If so I'll hold my hands up :).