Three Lions
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Posts posted by Three Lions
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On ref watch Dermott Gallagher says Man City got a modern day penalty and it was. It took 0.2 seconds from boot to Onanas arm!! Onana must know in that 0.2 seconds he cant be running round the box with arms on to block a shot and he has to take his arms off. If you go into a challenge or block a ball with arms on in the box you run the risk of handball. Thats where modern hand ball has got to. No way are you giving that modern penalty for ashton v briz u12's or suburban leagues or non league but in pro football according to the laws of the game and interpretation at top level these are penalties for handball.
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On 23/12/2023 at 13:41, Robbored said:
What!? You must be joking. Nige was fined last season for criticising the referee’s performance. The next time he was unhappy with the refs performance he widened his criticism to the poor standard of refereeing rather than the match official.
Plenty of other managers who’ve done the same have been fined by the PGMOL - that’s pretty much a gagging order and why we don’t see it anywhere near as often as we used to. We all remember Neil Warnock - he must have paid thousands in fines!
What!? You must be joking or dont know what you are on about. Pgmol dont fine managers!!
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On 22/12/2023 at 09:32, Robbored said:
Managers these days are financially gagged by the PGMOL if they publicly criticise a referee.
Managers are publicly frequently criticise refs and their not not gagged by the pgmol. This should be stopped by the EPL and FA as Managers are putting refs ion danger with their abuse.
On 22/12/2023 at 08:06, Never to the dark side said:Don't think they have attended any Bristol City games,as the "correct rate" would then fall below 50 per cent
Me thinks its like marking your own homework
Bullshit.
You get 50% of your work on the choo choo wrong. Doesnt happen does it?
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1 minute ago, transfer reader said:
That's my perception, rather than data driven.
a perception driven by? media broadcasters who often dont know the laws of the game.
The scrutiny is put on the refs. Putting refs out there to explain mistakes puts on more scrutiny on the ref. seriously maybe they should do it naked so they can be belittled some more mocked more by many who despise authority. Thats the problem. We have dont have respect its no respect.
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12 minutes ago, transfer reader said:
I don't think a ref being asked to explain their decisions is unreasonable, particularly when the frequency of baffling decisions is ever increasing.
where do you get increasing from?
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Just now, CliftonCliff said:
Maybe something constructive can emerge from it when the shock subsides, especially if the implications are debated beyond the confines of Turkey’s domestic game. A wide ranging review of refereeing standards, player behaviour towards referees, referee welfare, and how the promote a culture of greater respect and discipline would be timely. This could and arguably should be a big moment in the evolution of the sport in Europe, if it shines a light on issues that need addressing across all levels of the game.
A lino died in the Netherands ten years ago
On otib we see refs geting coated off for errors some say they should publicity be made to explain their mistakes maybe we should make them do it naked to humiliate them a bit more?? on motd sky we will see refs slagged off criticised by pundits who cant get the laws right. what goes on at the top gets repeated through the game and worse. refs are easy game including children refs having a pop at the refs is a bit sport and putting refs children purple tops to identify their child refs doesnt stop the pop at the kid ref sport. Refs will be attacked here this week end as they are every week. A ref in Bristol had to call the police as his car was surrounded by angry parents after A kids game make no mistake a ref death is in the post in this country.
Forget review of ref standards that happens every game up from the kids to the epl what should happen is that there is a zero tolerance to ref abuse and violence starting at the to ban klopp for months and Guardiola, ban players for months because what they do gets repeated. Put the players under a % of the scrutiny refs are with proper bans and things will change.
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On 05/11/2023 at 11:10, Cowshed said:
You are misunderstanding the word clear in relation to IFAB who set the rules. Clear will mean almost certainly score when all variables are considered. The defender between the attacker and GK would prevent the opportunity being DOGSO as it would not be 1v1.
Because the player is attacking from an angle. The wider the angle the less obvious the goal scoring opportunity is.
On 05/11/2023 at 12:35, Cowshed said:Your going through the DOGSO rule of DDDC. Distance from goal. Defenders covering. Direction of play. Control of ball.
When the foul is committed there is a covering defender. The Keeper and defender are in close proximity to the attacker. The players are covering. They do not have to be challenging. That could easily be the failure in the test.
Not giving a red for dogso there. What did your boy think?
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33 minutes ago, Harry said:
I don’t hang around with anyone in black?
I assume you may be referring to the Section 82 lads? If so, I’ve been in the family stand for 5 years and haven’t been hanging around with them since 2018-19 season, so I’m still unsure what that’s supposed to mean?Reckon somebody remembers who you did hang around with. From the Miners, Lions, Masonic and Spanish their still looking a bit dark with a lot less on top in some cases.
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Just now, Simon bristol said:
I think we all know the main reason nige is gone is that he and the owner dont get along and there was only going to be 1 winner with that… i could quite understand that nige might be a pain to deal with too, but the other stuff is just bullshit.
i would say though that some of the replies about instilling a philosophy on a playing style to a new head coach,,, good luck with that,,, thats what they should have been doing for the last 25 years,,, for jl to now come out and say this is the style they are recruiting for is embarrassing…. Instilling a style has worked for luton and swansea, and plenty of other clubs, so to recruit for that now is common sense.
City were supposedly doing that when LJ was give four years and tens of millions.
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11 minutes ago, Atticus said:
The 5 pillars?
They are desperate for a head coach to retain control of the playing side.
They now think they've cracked it with Tinnion. Tinnion being de facto manager and one they can influence.
And the five pillars. i think that shows you are not in control when the club keeps going through multiple ways to control if that make sense. The club hasnt done long terms and the money was given to LJ to create huge squads with recruitment all over the place and a team going through bullshit non identities short passing to long ball week to week!!!
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1 hour ago, Harry said:
I’m glad we are looking for a progressive, front foot, pressing coach.
Most other clubs are looking for regressive, back foot, non-pressing coaches.
So firstly, those words are just nonsense.
Regards the playing style. Jon refers to us now having an identity that the new manager will be recruited into.
And specifically that this is the first time they’ve had that clear vision.
One thing - who has been responsible for implementing that vision throughout the club?
Well, I’ve seen a very stylish document that explains the philosophy. It was put together when Gould was here and he told me that it was driven by Nigel.
So, I guess it would have been nice for Nigel’s work on implementing the club philosophy to have been acknowledged.
Regards our ambition. I don’t know a single fan who had any expectations of promotion this season, so their ambition is very different to 99% of the fanbase.
But given this is their ambition and there is still 2/3rds of the season left, I am now fully expecting promotion and the new manager and the board will now be judged by me on this clear goal.
If we don’t get promoted this season then I will now see it as a massive failure - and I will be blaming Jon.
Wasnt LJ supposed to have been doing this??? The identity? The project? The dna? the umm clubs in the bag? It really looks like they make it all up as they go along.
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41 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:
The coaches will have to come in and play "our" way.
Well then you'd just as well be that coach, you plonker.
This club has to be on a wind-up, it has to be.
Utter and total contempt for the fans, time after time (there's another Cyndi Lauper one for ya) @Hazelboy
What was Tinion doing and saying when LJ was going through different ways with different clubs in the bag and losing these projects identity???
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19 hours ago, transfer reader said:
Romero has his arm fully extended away from his body.
Certainly not the same.
I said they were comparable and a fully extended arm can be as natural as a bent arm.
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19 hours ago, transfer reader said:
Yesterday the ball hit Romero's hand as it was heading into the goal.
Romero's hand was also away from his body.
On Saturday when the ball first hits Vertegaard's hand it is heading away from the goal, and his arm is out to break his fall.
The second time it hits one of Vestegaard's arms it is above the cut of the sleeve, which is not counted as handball.
The two are not even remotely comparable.
They are comparable because in both cases there is no intent and in both cases their arms are in natural positions unlike having to tuck arms in which is unnatural, and in both situations both players have 0.1 of a second to react. As a low level ref the handball rule is a mess and im not giving either.
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On 11/09/2023 at 14:33, The Dolman Pragmatist said:
My son’s team comfortably beat Bristol Rovers Supporters Club in the Avon Yourh League yesterday. A conversation with one of their supporters revealed that he was a City fan, as were several of the players…
Their keeper punched the ball clear while a yard outside the area and only got a yellow card. Ah, Sunday referees…
The offence can be a yellow card and the sanction might just be a free kick. Sunday leagues refs wont be looking to send of players who are 12, 13, 14?
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Bin the singing section extradite AP from Australia and get him and some of his old skool in A block.
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1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:
Pedant alert !!! As someone in the know, why do you keep referring to the Laws of the game as rules ?
Fair play but as your itk if i started chucking LOTG DOGSO etc about people would be!!?? Laws have rule sand so do competitions. what matters is that people understand you.
1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:I definitely agree with your point about Coaches at all levels requiring some form of officiating training and qualification, it would be of benefit to the game.
However, and at risk of repeating myself, it is only one side of the issue. If you clarify what the rules are with coaches, especially at the pro level, then it will become even more contentious when a decision is wildly incorrect or a game is refereed inconsistently.
As I've said numerous times, the only logical fix is to tighten the rules and where possible remove the interpretation element of officiating. Only then will we see consistency and only then will we see people who's livelihoods and professional success are so impacted by officiating inconsistency "get on board".
This has never been an issue of individual incompetence, although there are some like Keith Stroud who do fall into that category, it is about a lack of leadership and a lack of understanding of what is required.
Refs need to start pushing for this, it will help them and more importantly, it will help the game.
Unfortunately there seems to be an unwillingness to accept any fault (on either side probably) and that means we will continue down the path of Referee's being held in disdain. To clarify, I think that is wrong. I just understand why that sentiment is gaining traction.
Thats what been occurring. Every season Ifab have been trying to make lotg/ rules clearer. Having managers and coaches during mandatory education might improve their understanding because in football total consistency can never happen. take handball there are many things to consider. You might want to think about excessive force and dangerous play their not exact and they can be.
Managers will always want these thing to be exact when it favours them and not it doesnt the marvellous coach that is Jergen Klopp is blind to dangerous and reckless play and a understanding right species when things dont go his way, his players? Acting like ***** and across the game people see that and more people think its fine to act like ***** because amongst the best do it.
Refs need to start pushing back for respect of the game. In Spain their threatening to go on strike due to abuse. The likes of Klopp need lengthy bans because 100% their behaviour is a cancer on football.
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On 02/05/2023 at 13:27, Midred said:
I'd certainly be interested to see the pundits ref a few matches without all the replays and without VAR too. They could then share both their experiences and their excuses.
Perhaps they could also do a stint in the VAR box aswell and share their reasons for their decisions?
I think pundits and coaches and managers should take courses on the rules. The FA does run seminars for Managers and coache soin the rules and rule changes and do all the club turn up??? Make knowing the rules and cpd manadatory part of the gaffers coaching badge, and any coach.
On 02/05/2023 at 14:14, Midred said:Also "they felt contact so they were entitled to go down."
Depends which team, player, referee I suppose?
And theres one. What do the rules say. Entitled!!
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Just now, Davefevs said:
There are a few “last picks in the playground” types who have never played, but yes, I agree, most will’ve played the game, but at what level?
Because the better standard you play, the better understanding you’ll have of what goes on, how clever players are in some of the things they do, that can fool a ref who’s not played (beyond basic levels, e.g. Sunday league) per se. That’s the point I think the pros are making to refs.
The downside to being a pro ref, is that you have to start young, therefore you probably have to give up playing any decent level of football to climb the ladder….hence why I think there needs to be some fast-tracking of refs with good football playing experience. The other way is to work closer with clubs…that’s a two-way thing. I’d assign a ref to each club, you’d have to get around not being assigned to a club in the division you ref in for fear of bias…or rotate them to work with a different club each month. Something like that.
As it stands there seems to be no desire to sort it out…and it’s getting worse.
I think you said you’re a ref?
What level to do ref / line at? How old are you (if you don’t mind me asking), what age did you start? Do you still play / what kind of level?
Finally, I’m not saying the level you played at is the be all and end all, just think it can help.
Dave loads of kids coming into reffing are not the last picks in the play ground are they? Thats a bit insulting. My Son played and reffed still does and plays at western league level.
You dont have to start young to be a pro ref. there 13 levels and the first few are not so hard or time consuming to get through then it gets tougher with despite what some on here are sketching refs are going up and down. Some get parked at levels. Top talents dont and its about getting merit. That the sketch. There is now diversity fast tracking., mm not so sure that will improve reffing!!
The pros making points about oh they dont know the game dont even know the rules. Murphy and Shearer and Jenas regularly get rules wrong. Shearer has his own rules!!!! On th e wedge they get the BBC should put them as refs course each season.
Refs are rotated.
Im middle aged. Only played school combination the sundays for decades but what is a good football experience? Collina played at no good level. I dont think it matters so much at all.
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On 28/04/2023 at 13:36, Davefevs said:
Aside from the example I gave which I found to work out who was fouling and who wasn’t, I found reffing quite straightforward. I was able to keep up with play, and the feedback was positive in terms of the decisions I made…I think it helped that I was a player and knew the game.
There seems to be this thing that refs dont know the game. Most refs have played the game.
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On 26/04/2023 at 14:49, Davefevs said:
I reffed a few games back in the day, when I wasn’t fit, e.g. sprained wrist, so I was able to run and blow a whistle. The bit I found hardest was - was the CF backing in, or was the CB holding him.
You might hate some of what i'm going to type but that highlights how the game cant be consistent and you will think about game management. I am not a ref bible and i took advice from refs here on things like. Think about angles forty five degrees to dead balls etc so you can see what is going on. Game management lets some go early till you see thats going on or
if its up the pitch give a fee kick if both cb and cf are at it in an area where this the least effect showing you are going to clamp down on whats going on with free kicks. Thats straight away something people wont like because the game isnt exact and cant be!!
On 26/04/2023 at 17:39, Percy Pig said:There is an us and them created because there is no accountability or acknowledgment that a problem exists. You are a perfect example of that. Total denial of a problem and a lot of deflection. I don't care about an individual referee being demoted. It's irrelevant. I care about the top of the profession acknowledging a problem and taking steps to fix it. They don't and therefore they won't. And the consequence of that is frustration that will manifest itself in anger.
As a ref i would be going down a long post. You posts all over the place so i will have a crack at that small part. At my bog ref standard there is loads of accountability. I can get binned if my scores are low and assessors checking on me dont think im up to my level. That accountability x 10 and x again at each level refs go up.
It not easy being a ref its bloody hard if it was so easy there be more lining up to do it. Interestingly top level pays more than semi pro football wheres all the ex semi pros going in to reffing? Too hard? Not up to it? Dont love the game enough?
Us and them well there should be refs should be respected. Nigel Pearson mentioned rugby where officials really have an us and the them should be respected. In rugby dissent any dissent to an official can be a red. And rugby does mean any meaning a red. No sin bin no time out refs can go red. Managers and players are not allowed to publicly criticises officials - its a ban. There is a zero tolerance of abuse and dissent.
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1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:
Nope. Rugby evolved from football and became a game in its own right when the FA was formed and set out rules including one that outlawed the carrying of the ball. Some schools, such as one in Rugby decided against following the new rules and continued in their own way, thus introducing Rugby Football. (This is understood to be the truer version of the one where a kid picked up the ball during a football match and ran it into the goal, prompting the ref to say that doesn't count, but it was a good try)
This is also a fact that seems to get forgotten by refs, pundits and fans alike when it comes to the "last man". If a player is brought down by a defender when through on goal he's often sent off for being the last man. If a player is brought down by the keeper but a defender was behind him and could have blocked any shot this often seems to be deemed a yellow card offence for the keeper as a defender was covering.
As for why grassroots is struggling for refs, then you only need to look at parents, coaches and players. Twice this season (under 11's) we've had 14 year old daughters of the coaches refereeing their first matches, and both times they were being harangued by players or parents (strangely though, these same parents aren't willing to pick up a flag and help out running the line, and one of them was also shouting instructions to his son to push up and play his opponent offside.....they were both the other side of the halfway line at the time!)
Sort of a reason I gave reffing a go. Theres not enough refs and my sons league needed them. Step up if you think you can do better and i now realise how little i knew about reffing and the rules of a game i watched and played badly.
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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:
The FA put children refs in purple tops, and yellow socks to identify they are children. It does not stop what is child abuse.
Doesnt work. People see the purple and think they are not proper refs and that is something to go at the kid with.
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20 hours ago, Percy Pig said:
Now some slippery slope.
You're a critical thinking case study.
Do you think that the standard of officiating at the pro level is acceptable? What accountability is there for poor performance? Do you think refereeing is a consistent and improving profession?
By jumping to a straw man and slippery slope argument about unproven and hypothetical consequences you are ignoring a problem that exists. It seems to me that that problem is the cause of disrespect and therefore the filtering down of anger to grassroots that you claim is correlated.
The leadership of professional referees in this country are clueless and the standard of refereeing reflects that lack of leadership and direction.
Yes i think the standard of officials at pro level is acceptable, they are bloody good at what they do because to get there they have to be 100%.
Poor performance. Everybody has one now and again, have too many you will get binned. I ref and every game i am marked by both teams have too many low scores and the fa are out to watch. i also have to keep on top of cpd do courses intermittently and a few other things to keep up to date. Thats low level stuff and i do level 6 no great level but to answer your do you think reffing is a constant and improving profession? Yes if its a profession and yes if its not. if i wanted (i don't) to go to 5 that means i have to learn and display more. Level 3 is another world of demands and that is not pro. To get up to above national list you have to years of consistent improving, you cant magik your way in.
I dont understand your straw man thing. we can see what goes on at the top repeated at the bottom. Klopp giving it to officials will be the kid tonight at an AYL game. Had it myself because i put a flag up and the other teams manager and coaches thrn parents are on at me for the rest of the game. My son refs he has had girls teams parents at u12 level all around him on th e pitch. Yeah its a correlation the refs charity (straw men??) they offer support to refs and they will, give you the correlation overand over again.
Leadership of refs in this country is a clueless?? the one thing they do have is a clue.
Guardiola Ball is NOT the Way
in Football Chat
Posted
Full back to CB to full back and back to CB to full back reminds me of Southgate and England not Man City!!