Davefevs

34 minutes ago, Southend Blue said:

I didn't start it, nothing to do with me.   I just like to talk about football and there's a name here relevant to both club sides that you can add further input to when the time arises.         It's been mentioned at length but once again to reiterate it seems Mark Ashton isn't quite the devil incarnate some would believe.      Some people don't like him, they hold the name in contempt and can see only evil and while can understand those philosophies it's fair to say he's been part of a new major success with us and an integral part of the resurgence since coming over and over the past 2 years.    I suppose he's been kept on a tighter rein at Portman Road, a whole different collection of people to work with or even to be kept in check.     I read only negative reviews when he came over and was sceptical about what we were letting ourselves in for, but fact remains he's proven a key figure in our ability to make it back or in us becoming a recognised club name once again.

So we're promoted, first time at top level since 2002.    Yes it's taken long enough and we've had to endure some pretty horrendous years and seasons and while the entire time spent away and years of decline can't be easily overlooked or never properly redeemed it's just a relief if not pleasing to know we're going to feature at the highest level once again.     Can we stay there or fall back at the first attempt, it's not so easy to answer but the infrastructure is now in place to really make a go of it but should McKenna leave any time soon and some of our most prized players choose to move on we could just as easily fall back into disrepair.       Back in 2000 we were promoted too albeit by way of the play-offs and then went on to finish 5th in the Premier League (a cup semi-final too for good measure) but can that happen this time around.    Somehow I think not.       All depends how we adjust to being a part of it once again for well over 20 years and keeping hold of the most valuable assets within the club set-up, McKenna included.  

Thing is, you and others are trying to rationalise success at your club (Ipswich) to absolve him of anything bad at Bristol City, and prior to here, at Oxford and Watford.

Like a lot of debates on OTIB, it’s perfectly reasonable to take each in isolation.  He can be the devil incarnate here, and the messiah at Ipswich.

He took advantage here, is the politest way I can put it.  It makes little difference to me that others allowed that, it highlights his character flaw that he did as he did.  It makes no difference whether reined in Ipswich that he’s gone on to do a good / fantastic job for you.

Its about what he did at Bristol City that counts for me and some others.

Your view is fine to hold btw, it’s just not mine.

(congrats on promo too, hugely deserved)

Merits to both sides of the debate.

We can re-open when we hear the next set of ambiguous expectations ahead of next season!

8 hours ago, TammyAB said:

Can we delete this embarrassing 93-page thread now?

1 hour ago, Glen hump said:

Agree with most of that but there’s no way he’d put us into administration.

No way, he’d lose his loans right off the bat.

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That extension by Reading, I'm struggling to see what loophole they've used.. 

Ir wasn't reducing by a day whixh can extend by 3 months.

It wasn't extending the Reporting Period to say end of September which would align with end of June. 

Clubs ans companies got an extra 3 months in the Covid years but that is long gone.

Staff numbers Dave. I assume that wheb the club specific Accounts appear that will shed more light.

I

Ta, guessing it doesn’t exempt Reading for having to submit in normal timelines, so they’ll have to produce an interim set.

This feels a bit like LJ in 19/20.

Promised playoffs if he was allowed money.  Didn’t achieve.  Got sacked.

Don't get me wrong feels harsh, but that can be the nature of the business at some clubs.

In terms of Rosenior I don’t think he concentrated enough on defence.  I loved some of his attacking patterns, but we carved them apart twice this season at times, once with each manager.

Just Reading left who’ve extended.

Have you got the staff numbers for Swansea MrP?

1 hour ago, westred1 said:

Substance behind this.

Illegal substances!

The usual hearsay!

3 minutes ago, Capman said:

I absolutely agree with that, and the cynical part of me wonders if that is deliberate. Allowing ambiguity into targets is a great way to cover failure. If no one knows what you are aiming for how do they know if you have been successful or not? 
I am using the boards own judgement of what they believe they have supplied the manager. They claimed they were supplying a ‘top six squad’ so that is what I believe we should judge the club against. 
Fact is the club were significantly away from that so the board did not supply the squad they claimed they did, or the managers failed to utilise it properly (or some combination of the two). The reason I think that’s important is because without being honest about that I have no idea how we can target 6th place next season. 

“Promotion” seems pretty clear, but even that can be taken apart.  It either means, 1st or 2nd, or 3rd to 6th, but winning the play-off final.  So is 3rd but losing out in semi’s or final, acceptable?

Or do they really mean top-6, ie in with a chance?

We don’t know!

Ditto the term “top end”.

Frustrating!

4 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

but having new foreign owners just to get into FFP trouble with a PL relegation dogfight is not something I would enjoy

Why foreign owners per se?

13 minutes ago, Capman said:

Just to be clear, the target of getting into the play offs is not a ‘moving target’. It is fixed, it is getting into the top 6. Therefore the number of points off 6th place is also not a ‘moving target’. It is also fixed.

If next season there are 10 dreadful teams in the league who everyone beats twice we could easily end up with more points but again be further away from the play offs. I doubt many would see that as ‘success’. So to argue points gained is not a moving target could also be seen as flawed. It changes with the standard of the league. 
In the end my view is that you have to measure outcomes against your target. The club said it was targeting promotion. Therefore for me the only legitimate matrix is how far we were away from getting that target. That does not make my view right and everyone else wrong, but it is certainly not an invalid view. It is a perfectly reasonable and logical position to take. 

Definitely think this is a valid argument.

Think there are numerous ways to measure “progress” too.

The fact that we are debating it, probably shows what a poor job the hierarchy have done in positing the expectations…and how they measure.

I guess the easiest thing @RedRossis to use the report button, or post something in the thread itself, to ask the mods to merge with an existing thread.

That keeps things neat and tidy too.  Either a thread grows becayse there is something worth discussing or it tails off onto page 2 and beyond.

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

That is true, maybe I'm not giving quite enough credit but it seems like it was the perfect blend at just the right time.

Yeah, don’t get me wrong, it’s a huge achievement with what they went into the season with, but Morsy was in a top 10 team in Boro, when he switched to Town.  Incredible signing really…must’ve got a great contract out of it!

But otherwise, Wolf and Burgess, yeah didn’t see them coping at this level for example.

Fair play.

14 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

I was at a wedding this weekend and an Ipswich season ticket holder was there, I explained our view on Ashton, their response was ‘we love him! He’s done an incredible job and really engages with the fans, havent been this together since Burley days’. As I said we couldn’t wait to appoint the most marmite ex city midfielder of all time as manager, that was the reason Ashton seemingly failed in my view and does anyone here seriously think he would have chosen Johnson?

Rumour was Ashton wanted Appleton!

https://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/2023/december/rennie-appointment/

This was one thread that didn’t need bumping…and I’ve made it worse!

8 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I did once see a away attendence table that factored in all the miles fans have to travel and I believe we were quite high up on that. 

7 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

We won’t be signing 28 year olds from the National League South. I thought he would be a 21 year old kid with people saying they give up if we’re not scouting him…………

Still makes me laugh when a Preston scout came to watch our (Brislington) centre-forward, who was banging them in for fun.

Asked a fan which player was the one he was watching, and saw a prematurely greying striker being pointed out, and asked how old he was.  About 30 was the reply back.  Scout got in his car, effing and jeffing, and drove straight off.

8 hours ago, milo1111 said:

The public airing of the  hierarchy’s expectations earlier in the season were blatant lies though Dave.

I do think there was part of them that sort of believed it and all it needed was an on-the-grass coach.  They are still peddling it for next season don’t forget!

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Luongo, Morsy both 30 plus, both okay but nothing amazing and yet great availability and over performance.

Since when did Broadhead, Chaplin, Burns become outstanding Championship players  Hirst age wise had some room for growth.

Leif Davis was their star, Kieffer Moore was a strong and well suited loan signing but Travis, Sarmiento and Al-Hamadi they aren't stars in the making albeit age is on the side of the latter.

Chaplin is very good Champ player, playoffs with Barnsley don’t forget.  Broadhead, Everton, don’t forget, young, upside.

Rearranged for tomorrow night (7:45)

@RoystonFoote'snephew yes, all tickets sold for the game inclusive of home and away tickets.

9 minutes ago, mozo said:

How anyone cannot see us finishing 11th best team in the league and 62 points as an improvement is baffling.

It is an improvement on last season.

The question is whether it’s an improvement on expectation, the hierarchy’s expectation and us fans’ expectations!  I’d say it’s closer to most fans expectations, but below the hierarchy’s.  It is normally the other way around.

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

To protect the integrity of the Premier League.

Don't think of it as an 18 team league but a 24 team league.

When clubs are relegated they should be able to keep their better players, so that when promoted they remain competitive ( which is basically Forest's argument for spending big over the past 2 years).

It's all about maintaining the PL as the leading brand worldwide. 

Often said the same, it’s a 24 team league, where they let 20 play each season.

7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

 

What I can't fathom, is the way his tenure here is looked back on by so many (mainly on here, in fairness)

 

Because we were in an almighty mess, and he (along with RG) saved us.

I can’t believe this still needs to be said.

19 minutes ago, Jobi said:

Part of me questions whether Pearson was that interested in the whole recruitment side of things - he always mentioned about not dealing with agents - I wonder whether he is this hands off types (not saying he is, I have no idea).

Very interested is the answer….he put the strategy and processes / profiles in place (with RG) for starters.  He is a big reason recruitment has improved over the past 2.5 years.

He is a manager though, an observer, not a doer, he empowers people (like Gilhespy said), etc.