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Isn't that precisely what Derby's unconventional method of amortisation says not just IS easy, but is a foregone conclusion! ? Are you telling us that your players aren't actually guaranteed to automatically be bought? What a shocker, as that would imply your residual amortisation model exists for some other reason, although I'm struggling to see one besides being able to have some seasonal flex on FFP!

Just seen that - EFL well and truly losing control now!

Thank you! I wasn't far off in my understanding then, I just didn't know the Premier League would support retrospective action after promotion - and I thought I'd missed something given that nothing has happened already based on projected accounts, as I cannot believe with the problems they have been through, Villa have found a legitimate way to comply.

Hey Mr. P - I've been putting off trying to comprehend the unthinkable, but it's time to get my head around what happens if Villa actually go up. I'm sure you've covered it but I've only dipped into bits of this (excellent) thread and am behind on my homework. Do they simply exit the jurisdiction of the EFL and therefore FFP?

Agreed, I got the point you were making, all I was adding is that when it comes to talk of PL2 I wouldn't get complacent into thinking Gibson is "one of us" - he may well be angry with Villa, Derby etc at the moment and have our support, but he has been there before with these clubs in more profitable times, I'm sure it won't take too much for them to put an arm round him in a non-EFL discussion and say why not channel your energy into working with us for a breakaway league, we both know what that involves - why throw your lot in with smaller clubs like Bristol City and Brentford's, WE can make much more money if we stick together, and we will keep Boro central to our cartel to keep you sweet. Or put more simply, when there is talk of breakaways, club stature and influence will talk in the success of a breakaway group, so the biggest clubs command disproportionate power in forming PL2, and therefore it won't take a lot for the big clubs in the division, however much they've broken the rules, to convince Gibson to fall in line and be part of their gang - stick with the bullies, not the bullied. And as always the clubs that ultimately lose out are the ones with the smallest voices who don't have that pulling power or influence. If I'm a big club meeting without the EFL and was in breach of FFP and didn't want the division turning against me, that's how I'd pick off the key dissenters....

Nothing to add to this excellent thread other than to thank the contributors, it makes fascinating reading. I know cheating is cheating but I think I would be a little less irritated if it was a club that had never been in the Premiership, doing the fiddling. A bit Bournemouth style. What winds me up is that it's clubs who have had their time in the sun, earned all the rewards, banked a tonne of parachute money, and are still looking for advantages. I know it's probably just survival instinct now to them in financial terms, but to me it's the ugliest form of greed when you have it all, and yet still want more than your lot. Most of my life has been League One level. Each time we went down we earned the right, over years, to go back up. We didn't hunt for loopholes. These clubs are ****s. And on @Davefevs point about Premier League 2, that was my first thought too when I read they're meeting without the EFL. That does raise questions about the plan. If you look for answers without the EFL then presumably the answer might not in the end involve the EFL. I guess there's any number of different consensuses possible. Yes Gibson will have "small" clubs like us on his side, but he could equally be courted by his larger "accused" into focusing on PL2 with them all at the front of the queue. So while we're aligned with Boro's point of view, let's not forget Gibson and his rivals were all part of the same cash-cow, I wouldn't assume he's simply on our side now.

One of the Beesotted (Brentford fanzine) guys just tipped me off on this, as I asked why the Derby fan group twitter was being so rude to them during their game on Saturday. Apparently the Derby lot didn't like Beesotted's view that selling the stadium wasn't a good idea (based on their own experience with Ron Noades years back) and an FFP con. The way he tells it, Mel Morris sold it to himself to wipe out Derby's FFP loss. At a value of £80m for a stadium valued at €23m in 2013. Turning a £50m loss into a £14m profit. If they lost £50m in a year they'd have broken FFP already. Derby fans think they'll buy it back if they go up, Beesotted asked what if you don't, as Derby hasn't got players to sell. Odd situation but I will read your contributions on this thread to understand better as I haven't had a chance to keep up with this before!

That rings a bell, wasn't he Ade Akinbiyi's agent when we sold him? Not to change the tone of the thread, which of course is deeply sympathetic and remorseful, I am struck by these continued reports of a distraught dad talking to media in Argentina. I would imagine he would want to be as close as possible to the operation, even if he is helpless to do anything more, not fielding impossible questions from the other side of the world - I wonder what all these agents and dealmakers are doing to make that happen? Not suggesting they are not, but it doesn't seem to have happened, and yet they all obviously fell over themselves to take their cut of Sala's transfer.

Speaking of football family, this is the club which lost its entire team in a plane crash just over two years ago. They are praying for a quick answer and hope they’ll be found well, adding they still believe that Sala will give much enjoyment to football lovers.

French football writer and Ligue 1 correspondent for BeIn Sports - tweeted 15 minutes ago

"Would someone please get this poodle out the back of my bloody training jacket, it was meant to stay tied up at home where I left it. AH IS THIS ON? LISTEN I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY AS I ALWAYS DO. IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. ME PLAYERS NEED TO LOOK AT THEMSELVES. AND DECIDE IF ME SAYING I'LL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND THEN HUMILIATING THEM AS MUCH AS I CAN, IS OKAY. IT'S NOT OKAY. ME I CAN TAKE IT. ME I CAN KEEP GOING. BECAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS KEEP GOING WHEN AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU ARE OFF HOME TO TUG OFF A DOG" ?

Said it on here many times before, but I despise Wolves with every fibre in my body. Loathe them more than just about anyone. Like some others, reasons aren't always known to me, but mostly experiences at Molineux and elsewhere with their fans. I'm already dreading the thought of them all waving their adopted Portugal flags in the away end today (which they appear to be doing this season) - it makes the stomach sick and the heart sink. No conflict for me, just added repulsion.

I don't think students and academics watch Rovers anyway mate, the clue is in their vocation.

He's been doing it for 8 months and seems to have survived.

Give me an hour or two for a report. I need a moment (and a drink) here. As a Preston fan just pointed out, they could have won 8-0. This one is on Lansdown, he has completely and utterly legitimised failure to protect his own cosy lines of influence.

Two teams without a proper manager

Bit of an epic there Spud, but the first time I honestly believe you've written something that you believe in but that I can also agree with entirely. Exactly as I see games develop all season, right down to who you think provides outlets and the dearth of movement and awareness from the rest of them. Your description of our attacking is probably the most realistic I've seen you post, so I would challenge how (if you believe it) it equates to enough positive signs for you to have been as encouraged about the potential, as you've mentioned in the past. Also, an obvious retort is that these players played more comfortable looking defending and attacking possession in previous seasons. So am I right in saying that a point you've made to me in the past, but which I didn't really take in, is you genuinely feel this negative pattern of play is in trying to establish the desired pattern of play, and as such, a necessary suffering (results and performances) on painful transition to a different brand of football? You hinted at it before (golf swing) but the idea of such painful, high-risk revolution wasn't clear to many, I'd suggest. One other point - you talk about "patient, possession football in a narrow field of play": I couldn't agree more that this is what we're seeing. But you go on to make the point it is designed to "work" the opposition by passing around them and tire them out. Surely by being so narrow the potential to tire them out (or have easy outlets to pass between) is substantially reduced? I don't see us tiring anyone, we make the pitch so narrow we run out of passing options quickly and end up giving it away or retreating and then booting it back upfield to nobody. Yes movement being poor is a part of this (sometimes so poor for previously competent professional footballers that I can't believe the instructions/coaching is helping), but not exploiting width is, for me, also seriously at odds with this pattern of play (possession and working opponents) that you describe. For all his defensive meltdown at the end, Mark Little's attacking movement on Saturday did far more to tire opponents and provide outlets for teammates and space for possession, than any recent attempt to pass about around the centre of the pitch. So I agree with your description of the football we're playing, and I buy your description of the football we want to play, but I have a hard time seeing that one will produce the other. For periods of the first game against Fleetwood, a team that is surely inferior on most attributes, they had ability to control the tempo and create clearer chances, I think in no small part to using width and pace, creating outlets and space to exploit for their forwards. Same against Preston at home. This "football" seems to work us far more than ours works our opponents!

It's not just Fielding. This is City's DNA now. The team resolutely will not exploit the quick opening or the instinctive run. Every player appears to have been drilled to stop, think, allow formations on both sides of the ball to re-group, then start the slow pass build up to the hope of space or opening of the like we might have had from the first time ball or run we rejected. It's depressing and it's bizarre and I refuse to believe this is our players MO as it is so obviously laboured and not instinctive for them. Judging by O'Dowda, a £1.5million player, tactical instructions in this area are either too complicated, unclear or regressive, resulting in feeble, hesitant, confused positioning and application, and deteriorating form and ability out "wide". Time was even an average player like Burns could come off the bench for us late in a game and run direct on the wing and cause some problems. O'Dowda last night was a great example of how we have invested in and yet neutralised technically strong wingers (based on his ability when signed) to the point of them looking like lightweight, poorly coached wastes of money. The LJ directive: Slow it down. Do not be instinctive.... FFS let these players play.

If you finish below Ipswich you will go down - they were terrible.

Ipswich are abysmal by the way and this is the best ref I've seen all season. There will be no excuses.

A winner born out of the very worst of Lee Johnson's instructions. My blood is boiling. Ball in midfield in our possession with space to move if we are quick - chose to pass sideways, then back and back, for Flint to punt forward for a 50-50 header, which we lose and they break and score. How does this bullsh*t promote possession? Why pass up the quick move to keep possession if all you're going to do is setup a punt at two lines of opposition? The players have worked hard today to a man but they have been throttled out of attacking instincts by this manager.

Bit of a freak goal for me - clearance from a corner, lots of players trying to win the second ball inside the halfway line, handballs by both teams, think a few expected a whistle and then it spins clear of our midfield to their left wing to cross. If anything we over committed for the second ball.

At Portman Road. This shape is SO much better. Game is being played further into their half, we have 4-5 players in their half whenever we get the ball. Amazing the self belief when you play a competitive formation.

Carlisle ish. And yet the horse punchers couldn't even make it a couple of hundred yards from HMP Horfield.