Alessandro

27 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

We're a squad that has a very young element to it, plus a few 30+, and not too many in the prime ages of 26 - 29. So to an extent yes we are young, despite having James, King, Simpson etc on the books.

We have 7 players 30 or over (Weimann, James, Baker, Wells, Martin, King and Simpson). Interesting that all 3 of our main forward line are 30+.

We have 3 aged 26 - 29 (COD, Bentley and Kalas).

O'Leary is 25.

The rest of the squad is then aged 24 or under, some 13 players.

You can argue about age just being a number, there's a discussion over what exactly constitutes "young", and of course the old adage that if you're good enough you're old enough comes into play.

However, I think it is fair to say that overall we have a "young" squad that is bloated at either end of the age spectrum, with very few in the prime years. It was something I worried about in the summer, too may older and younger players, the older relying on younger bodies, and the younger relying on older minds, but too few that enjoy having both legs and mental fortitude.

@Davefevs, can you perhaps furnish some minutes played data to supplement the above. How many minutes are seeing played by the different age brackets?

 

According to transfermarket, we have the 10th oldest squad at average age of 26.1 and the 8th oldest starting 11 at 26.7.

The spread of age is, as you've shown, a point of discussion. 7 over 30 but 13 under 24 and how many of those are under 20/21?

25 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

Depending on which side you're bread's buttered you can make the comparison either way for us versus other clubs, successful or otherwise.

As for other clubs wishing to be 'in our position'? Well the majority no doubt wouldn't. We've had very little to cheer on the pitch for 20 years, so very few would swap for that. 

But i'm sure, when you look at the position we are in; recent stadium development, new training ground, stable owner, relatively financially stable club, commercial viability, catchment area, been established in the championship for 6 years etc...i'm sure there are many who would and do envy us, perhaps not in on field success, but in other ways.

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A fair point. However, I would counter it by saying there are also a lot of similar sized and indeed smaller clubs than us, that have made it to the Premier League and/or achieved more success than us. There are even some that started below us in the pyramid, like Brighton and Swansea, who sailed past us with ease. Neither had financial backing on the level of SL. And of course we can complain about the Championship not being a level playing field (what division is to be fair) but there is a solution to that - win promotion to the Premier League and take advantage of those parachute payments if you get relegated, as others do. We've had the opportunity and potential to try it, but have never fully committed in my eyes. 

Agreed - however I would argue both Swansea and Brighton invested pretty heavily on and off the pitch, most likely more than us. Especially in Brighton’s case, didn’t they really go for it financially and either it was before FFP or they avoided it by getting promotion ala Villa? That might be Bournemouth I’m thinking about. Either way, for every Swansea, Brentford or Brighton is a Forest, Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.
 

We can go round in circles like that but every year for some time now as I say it boils down to us having at best a mid-table championship budget.

52 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

A post hard to argue with - we do seem to be an endless cycle of “feast and famine” during SL’s ownership =  Relative progress when he and we are able (FFP) to invest money in the project and big steps backwards when the club has to regroup and save as we recover from a mess often of his making.

The only point I’d argue is the use of spending figures out of context to those clubs around us. I caveat the following by saying and I do believe the reality is mistakes been made and could the money have been better spent at times, 110% yes.

But quoting £100m out of context I don’t agree with as in that period we have had teams around us making our spending look like pocket money.

Year on year under SL, despite him spending those aforementioned millions, our wage bill and our net transfer spend has never, if ever been much above mid table in the championship. 

So for me it’s not a simple, ‘we’ve underachieved when you look at what we spend’ because IMO that isn’t necessarily the case.

When you realise that and where we sit financially in the football pyramid as a club (and I’m not talking personal wealth of owner) - that is where the core of the debate is for me and where we need to look to move forwards as a club.

A very mixed half - started the brighter team without really threatening, Brum slow to get going and we looked to be in control of them. But then Jordan Graham started getting in the game. Looks useful out on their right and their brightest spark, getting in several dangerous crosses. 
 

The conceded goal was a frustrating one, slow to react and track in midfield  and McGree with acres of space to get a fairly tame shot away that takes a nasty deflection in.

When we’ve tried to get the ball forwards quickly we can’t make it stick. Often Wells ending up the target man and losing out. Building was giving Dasilva and Tanner more chance to get up in support which gave us a few more options.

We’ve had a couple of half chances, notably a general wasteful tonight Weimann slicing wide from a decent position. 
 

City guilty of some aimless long balls, several times from an otherwise solid Vyner.

Bakinson with a good first half for me, sprayed it round well at times, yes some misplaced forward balls, but always an option and part of most of what was good about the first half’s play IMO.

Need to stop the crosses coming in and need to get a few more bodies forward quicker to hurt them as I don’t see us bulldozing through or scoring with a set piece tonight.

3 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I can't disagee Alessandro, on any of that. I've just asked a genuine question, to which I don't have answers. No knee jerk stuff from me atall, I have felt the same way for a good while and it's a concern.

I really believe MA has caused havoc and left us in a mess that will take multiple windows to change. 

Quality and culture, levels and performance on and off the pitch.

For me, Pearson is as good a candidate as any right now. Been there. Done it. He may not take us up, but I think we will in time look back and see his influence. 

29 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Hey Robbored.

While I didn't expect a victory today, nor do I want SL to leave, I do think something is badly wrong at our club and it has been for some time.

What that is, I don't know but we seem to be on a downward trajectory currently and maybe have been for a while. 

While I don't necessarily agree with the OP, something is clearly not right.

If I had a pound….

“Badly wrong”….”downward trajectory”….

The problem is we’ve been going down for about 6 years according to some, and yet still, we are here in the championship. 
 

We will stay up, we will give Pearson the season. We will continue to invest when the time’s right.
 

It’s a big transition. There will be bumps along the road - there will be casualties.

Sacking Pearson now…not on the table, IMO.

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/taliban-to-take-over-middlesbrough-fc-20211008212884

(Apologies if this has already been posted..)

Looks like only 2 players in that squad of 23 are from clubs outside the Premier league and the vast majority are contracted to top 4-6 clubs.

I’m sure 10/15 years ago U21/19/18’s etc used to have a much wider spread of clubs and leagues - They’ve really got a strangle hold on the best youth now in the premier league. 

Bolton 2 - Shrewsbury 1

Happy with that team given the injuries/Covid issues.

Not a huge amount on the bench if we’re chasing the game so let’s hope for a fast start and some goals to defend.

COYR

11 minutes ago, Leveller said:

There was a large group who loathed LJ as a player and he was never going to get any objective assessment from lots of those from day one. People may have forgotten how divisive his reputation was even when we got to the play off final.

I would add to that the fact that he replaced SC who was/is rightly a well respected manager for many City fans, and virtually God like for a handful. A few of SC’s biggest fans were LJ’s biggest critics.

42 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I'm looking out for Sunderlands results for this reason. He seems to have recruited well this summer and they're currently top, albeit after a handful of games.

Promotion will be expected in a competitive league so he needs to deliver this season. I think LJ, like his dad, might actually make better transfers when he doesn't have a big budget. 

Looking at what both LJ and MA are now up to at their new clubs, it certainly looks like it's MA who, with 18 odd new signings this summer, is the bigger "spender" of the two when there's money available.

Strange half. Preston started and ended well, looking most dangerous throughout.

We had a decent spell in the middle of the half but couldn’t turn the pressure to chances. Getting the ball into some decent positions but lacking the quality to create.

Preston breaking and finding width well, some great runs into the channels and Johnson has way too much time and space to pick his dangerous passes.

Need more pace and we can cause them some trouble. 

Superb win - fantastic team performance. 
 

Very promising stuff. 

1 minute ago, glos old boy said:

 

he said that about Nagy then started him next game.......NP now has 3 out of the 5 on subs bench he should have started with....just 2 more to go

That was the cup though with Nagy?

Also the bringing Kalas back in slowly, fitness wise, argument went out the window when he played 90 mins in the cup - seems a waste of minutes if he had a view to starting him today.

Just now, Fordy62 said:

I think from that we can deduce that he doesn’t want to be here. NP doesn’t want to play players who don’t. It’s the only rational explanation. 

Agreed.

1 minute ago, the1stknowle said:

He is a very good defender but I just don't think - for us - he is the answer. He wasn't last season, was he.

Might be best for everyone to move on. 

I'm not saying he is the answer, whatever the question is.

What I do believe however, he is currently our best CB and with a team struggling to keep the goals out, seems less than ideal to be sat on the bench.

FFS - Missing a....Kalas

Played Vyner, big covering interception there. 

Get in - free header for King - Nice delivery from James. 

Change of shape too with Wells on...let's kick on

It's all a little bit shit, isn't it? 

Classic Warnock goal, Scott muscled out in midfield, a break out wide, Vyner poor defending the cross, Dasilva also outmuscled at the far post. 1-0.

Nothing is sticking to Martin - despite having 5 in midfield, it all feels very disjointed, King and James both wanting to drop deep and play quarter back (do we need both doing that, especially as Atkinson likes to step forward?) would like to see more from both of them. The higher 3 struggling to get into the game and all to often easily double marked or physically pushed off the ball too easily.

No pace, no threat, weak all over the park and far far too easy for a hardly exciting Boro team...worrying 45 minute performance.

5 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Make do and mend In spite of our billionaire owner. How he could not give funds for a striker I still find hard to believe. Pearson wanted two defenders , two midfielders and a striker. Of the four who joined a fee was paid for one only. Yet still SL will not fund a striker.

I mean, it’s been, how many years now and you still think it’s a matter of big sugar Daddy being a cheap skate or not when it comes to transfers?

Where have you been the last 5 + years? Have you heard of FFP? Costs and revenue? Sustainability? 

Genuinely astonished when I still read people making comments like this.

A performance that probably sums up where we are right now.

Decent and well organised, we’ll create chances, but will need to create a lot given we look pretty toothless up front.

Defence is a concern. We will have games where we’ll hang on for a win and times when we won’t, like this afternoon.

Mid-table stuff, better if we can fix either the conversion rate or chances conceded. Worse if we don’t. 
 

Work to be done.

Pretty decent first half!

Took a little while to grow into the game, but we did as the half went on and look good value for the lead - Weimann, Atkinson and King all missing decent half chances before the latter whips in a great cross for an unmarked Martin to head in.

Enjoying the calming experience of James and King in that CM area.

Some real classy touches from Scott too.

Decent debut for Atkinson so far.

Solid start…

COYR.