Odysseus

4 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

TFL have cut tube trains, I’m not in London but going by what my friend has text that the tube is now busy and people are now bunching up on trains and on platforms.
 

He thinks this isn’t a good idea for social distancing gone out of the window. 
 

 

TFL workers, often ignored as being front line similar to police/NHS have bore the brunt of the virus. Apparently staffing numbers are the reason trains have been cut.

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Whatever the rights and wrongs of our government, I suppose at least one consolation is that we don't have Trump in charge. If ever there is a man worse able to manage the situation, and if ever there is a worse strategy for dealing with it, I can't imagine.

Interesting perspective from the US here of the contract with Merkel. Now I don't always agree with her policies, but she is a leader - something in very short supply at the moment.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/angela-merkel-nails-coronavirus-speech-unlike-trump.html

 

Wish people had higher expectations than “at least we don’t have trump”. Understand some people want to be more positive but we’re partly in this mess because of it.

25 minutes ago, wood_red said:

So it is obvious now what they should have done 2 weeks ago (unless I am reading that wrong)? Surely that is massively in hindsight isn't it?

Sums it up nicely - you despise the Government/PM because of Brexit therefore can't trust them, that is your prerogative so in turn everything they do now is wrong in your eyes, as you cannot look at it objectively.

Yes I along with many other people pointed out weeks ago the governments strategy was bonkers, it isn’t hindsight. As a socialist I wanted war like national mobilisation to deal with inequality in our country before this disaster. It’s obvious to people like me markets are never going to solve climate breakdown or billionaires hoarding resources. After austerity I have no doubt the Tories will prioritise their rich insurance and business owning friends rather than the poorest. 

I don’t despise this government because of just Brexit. But everyone who continually rewarded this government for lying by electing them have contributed to lowering trust in politicians. It has consequences, like voting for Brexit when there were clearly more important issues in the world/country.

I’m sitting in my expensive London houseshare  with 5mb speed internet failing to work from home thinking a nationalised fibre optic internet can’t come soon enough. That many Tory voters are going to realise stripping back benefits to £90 a week is a pretty bad idea when you end up needing it. 

33 minutes ago, downendcity said:

I've mentioned this before ( but with regard to another Johnson and what he says!).

Saw a you tube video recently where a guy was talking-to students at American Universities, following Trump's State of the Union address.He gave them quotes made by the president and asked their reaction.

The students were obviously liberal left politically, so all of them were equally scathing of the president's remarks - racist, warmongering, anti woman etc. The sting in the tale came when the interviewer explained that all the quotes were made by Obama when he was president! One student then excused ,that Obama sent 3,000 troops to police the Mexican border because she was "certain that the context would have justified Obama doing it". Another student honestly answered that his judgement was based entirely on the man and not what was said.

Think this applies a lot at the moment, as I wonder how much of the criticism is because of who is making the statements ( and the party he represents) rather then the statements themselves. Also BJ's critics make the assumption that because we might be doing things differently from other countries it is them that have got it right and we that are doing it wrong. Unfortunately no one really knows the best way to tackle this situation as there is no precedent and, as you say, BJ is acting on the best medical and scientific advice available. Unfortunately BJ cannot legislate for the population acting like idiots!

The one thing I'm absolutely certain of, is that the absolute selfishness being demonstrated by those that are emptying supermarket shelves of essentials is not what my late parent's generation were fighting to achieve when they went through the second world war. making far greater sacrifices than will be required of any of us. 

 

 

I posted a link earlier today you should read. In the blitz there were exactly the same behaviour in a class ridden society. Looting, raping, stripping dead bodies. You’ve just been sedated in believing everything was rosey and everyone was as “in it together” because it helped paint a strong narrative post-war about our country.

48 minutes ago, wood_red said:

A genuine question to you, what should the Government have done or be doing and at what timelines? It seems every post is just a "have a go at the Government", when they are pretty much in a lose lose situation. The situation is changing by the hour so how can they foresee everything? They are basically following what advice the Scientists and experts are advising them to do - they do that and people will have a go, if they don't do that people will have a go.

Maybe we should have just shut the borders 2 months ago, stopped everyone outside the UK coming in which would massively have helped wouldn't it? Everyone would then be moaning that it was over the top and not feasible. It is a crazy situation that will never please everyone with whatever decisions are made.

Sorry but the government haven’t been “following the science” it’s a massive excuse. Herd immunity along with reacting at the last hour to help the economy have clearly been unacceptable gambles. They weren’t even testing people at airports in the midst of the crisis! 

I know this country has such low standards and faith in itself that it rewards complete incompetence and cronyism in the governments it elects and then pretends we’re world leaders in areas. But Islands like Japan and Singapore have completely halted the spread of this virus.

Its obvious the actions they should have taken 2 weeks ago now. I think there is an inherent issue here also. After Brexit and the most recent election half of us despises this lying government and prime minister. You can’t expect people to suddenly trust people who have lied time and time again. 

It’s probably a good time for the country to actually learn about the myth we’ve been fed about “Blitz sprit” spread by the baby boomers who didn’t live through it. 

https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/challinor/1995/02/class-war-blitz.html

The working class in London were shafted without proper shelters while the upper class fine dined in hotels. Looting, raping, stealing jewellery from the dead were widespread. 

22 minutes ago, lenred said:

There’s been no civil disobedience anywhere else with those stringent measures already in place. Why would there be here?  There won’t be, it’s just more scaremongering.  

Those other places tend to have more stringent policing anyway and have had clear measures from the government. It was only a week ago that the government here were telling people we’d just carry on as nothing was happening.

Our government are still dithering and delaying in telling people If they’re going to be looked after through this crisis, causing thousands to continue working or leaving to spread it outside London to go home.  

Remembering the 2011 London Riots I’m just apprehensive if they’ve prepared to bring the army in if they’re serious about a lockdown. Rumours (briefed out of Whitehall) are going around like wildfire here that shops and transport are about to close causing even more stockpiling. 

I’m in London and the shops are rammed pack with long queuing. People have gone from treating it as a joke to realising they could be in lock down with no food. The media and government are probably equally culpable for the hysteria and lack of control. If they don’t both get a grip I’m fearing civil disobedience. 

5 hours ago, havanatopia said:

I do too.

I also find political point scoring, especially earlier in this thread, a bit silly to put it mildly. 

This kind of confusion is inevitable in a crisis this big and fast-moving. But it does also make the government's job much harder as it is easy for those who - for whatever reason - are mostly interested in scoring points to accuse ministers of U-turning and not being in full control. The truth is that it is impossible to be in control of a virus that scientists are still trying to fully understand, but the task for the government is to appear as responsive and sensible as possible - and to get that heard over the clamour.

Problem is this government usually U-turns when public outrage blows up. Similar to when they wanted the elderly to pay for their social care by selling their houses.

Think about that for a second.

If people didn’t kick off they would have went ahead with doing nothing and letting the majority of the population catch it resulting in excessive deaths. So it isn’t as simple to say people are playing politics. 

Business owners and landlords getting the money tree, the rest of the population are getting turfed out. 

11 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Just my meandering thoughts on this FWIW - not aimed directly at you Mr. Fevs, just that it was the last post I looked at.

I think this crisis is moving incredibly fast and its likely we'll always be a day behind playing catch up as things develop. 

But yes, its obvious that SMEs, pubs etc, and people with debts to pay but no means of doing so through no fault of their own will need huge support. The measures put in place (but yet to materialise and they need to get them in place very soon) are very welcome but, as I said, its moving at a pace and its changing daily but its obvious that more needs to be put in place and I would hope that more on that will come today. The banks were bailed out earlier this century and its now time for payback. But I wouldn't have expected everything to be in place from day one and those that do think that are being naive imo. It'll never be enough for some though.

Seems like the public are being sensible in the main by not socialising in pubs etc (or at least cutting it down), and reducing journeys on public transport (buses in Bristol about to announce cut down services as London has done). Businesses also, in the main, appear to be acting responsibly and following the Government guidelines. Much better that we aren't under some sort of martial law and still have some freedoms and normal life whilst trying to keep this virus under control. 

The self isolation issue seems to have be clarified but they are still people who are under the impression its some sort of house arrest. That needs further clarification. 80 year old on the radio yesterday was up in arms about staying indoors for 3 months and wouldn't listen to reason - its ageist apparently. Another aspect of this is care homes stopping relatives visiting - a bit of common sense and compassion is required. One lady on the radio said she can't see her husband who has dementia so she asked if she could go to his window so he could at least see her. Heart rending stuff which isn't necessary if the correct risk assessments are in place. 

It would help if people and elements of the media were a bit more circumspect and stop the scare mongering, banging on about millions being homeless in the future, 500,000 deaths etc etc . Stuff like that really doesn't help - and neither does people trying to score petty political points which is pathetic.

I'll get me coat.

 

The government has had since November to plan for this. They’ve self manufactured a crisis in the NHS that has been at breaking point for years cancelling routine operations every winter. Frankly they’ve been asleep at the wheel since Johnson and Gove caused Brexit. 

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I can see the Tories (reluctantly) having to adopt some of the fiscal policies championed by Labour and the Greens.

A period of time with a universal basic income? A suspension of repayments or even temporary nationalisation of some services.

All of which will cost money, but even Boris must realise that the sick can't pay for housing, bills and food on SSP.

It will be difficult when the Tories have been guided from the philosophy that it’s better for the soul of the poor to be working in poverty than idly secure. I know I’d rather be from Germany or France right now who still have security nets and not an economy built on private debt, high rent and insecure work. 

22 hours ago, hodge said:

Who doesn't love a crackpot conspiracy (which is 100% made up.... by me)

Boris is going the way he is with dealing with the virus, it'll delay Brexit negotiations so far he'll get the no deal brexit he wants while not looking like he's failed at negotiations. The projected peak with the method he's taking.... June, the month he set that there needed to be clear progression with brexit deal negotiations with the EU for getting a Canada style deal or he'd walk away.... June

A Canada FTA is a hard Brexit not that far from No Deal (with the removal of most tariffs with the EU but all other barriers remaining). It will be hailed as a triumph because brexiters will have achieved their prized goal: the ability to deregulate from the EU’s strong standards of protecting its citizens.

I’m not sure if the EU would accept it. But as it’s such a meagre deal for the UK they might just give in because of the huge trade deficit we have with them. What’s important is this is nothing like what Leave EU promised it’s voters in 2016. It’s bottom of the barrel stuff.

Who will Joshua face next? I wouldn’t mind seeing him and Whyte fight Miller and Ortiz. Judging by tonight’s card and Joshua’s new contract maybe that’s unlikely now 

Got to take British boxing for what it is. Especially when Unkle Frank is even worse than Hearn now he has money again in BT. All in all good promoting from Hearn avoiding Pulev in Bulgaria and saving face with fighting Wilder next year which suits Joshua. 

Showtime in the US are continuing to put on better free to air shows that what we are with PPV but there isn’t exactly a golden age of British boxing shows to go back to. 

Haye is still levels above Bellew and should still have enough left to smash him. It's just frustrating to have so many questions hanging over about his condition. Last fight in the public workout I few people correctly pointed out how much Haye was missing the pads and how unstable he looked on the leg. Until I see his condition I'm going with what makes sense on paper, like I did with Groves vs Eubank.  

The weight is melting off Fury. Maybe he's back on the steriods like he was against Wlad? I'm not going to welcome a cheat like Fury back into the ring for a couple of good heavyweight bouts. Same goes for Povetkin and any other heavyweights caught. 

The Pulev that lost to Wlad should have no issue boxing Whyte's head off. Unfortunately like with the majority of the "2nd tier" heavyweights of this generation Pulev has been inactive and stagnated the past few years.   

Maybe Joshua has became Klitschko after this and the Takam fight? Which is no bad thing for someone who came into boxing late, but I think he is losing the aura of a knockout killer. 

More likely to jab and clinch against high level fighters. Which he did very well against Parker in judging the distance in the later rounds. Good fight. 

3 hours ago, Stortz said:

Yeah, I hear you there, politics have been stopping good fights for far too long.

There seems to be a bit more of a collaborative spirit with the promoters atm though, the World Boxing Super Series has been such a success that it's expanding into new weights this year and promoters can see it's too much of a good prospect to stop their fighters entering, even if the Sauerland brothers get the majority of the promotional wedge. Hearn says in the IFL video that @Owl Visiting posted about Burnett and Tete being in it. Long may it continue!

I'm glad the WBBS is expanding as I don't think they've gotten the viewing figures and buys deserving of the prize money and level of fights they've had in the Cuiser Weight division. I've also just thought about the refreshing state of boxing where me and many others are expecting a fighter to take back to back title fights!

11 minutes ago, Stortz said:

Ortiz was indeed a decent amatuer but he didn't win any Olympic medals. He won a silver at the world championships in 2005.

Tony Thompson and Bryant Jennings? Hardly names to conjure with are they. Thompson's biggest win is over David Price and Del had a far better go at a Klitschko than Jennings!

I agree absolutely that it isn't a good idea to believe Hearn too readily, but I can't see he's doing much wrong here tbh.

Ah my bad, I've probably overestimated Ortiz as a top 10 heavy weight as he's probably more like top 20. You're right that Hearn hasn't done much wrong but I'm weary of promotors antics and this turning into a Mayweather v Pac. 

23 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

The gloves are off special featuring @Stortz and @Odysseus,I’d definitely watch that 

At the moment I'm probably wrong on this matter. But looking at the current heavyweights Wilder must be the big money fight for Joshua's career. as Furry doesn't even look like he will have 1 let alone 3 fights in 2018. 

I think Hearn is just trying to **** around with Wilder pushing the Whyte fight. I'd definitely like that fight to happen don't get me wrong but it isn't for Hearn and the UK to demand it.   

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You can't compare the two as McGregor and Mayweather both have massive profiles in the US. The fight would have to be over here to maximise revenue.

I agree.

The point being that the majority of Joshua's fans will buy the PPV even if it's in the US. Vegas being Vegas pulls millions in from the Casinos alone. Wilder's record in the US may be poor but his most recent fights have done alright numbers and his profile is better now. 

Are you all so confident that a fight in Vegas to be unified heavy weight champion of the world won't bring in the US audience? All I'm trying to say is not to believe Hearn straight away. 

If it's really the case that Wilder's team is begging for a 50-40% cut in the UK, then what has happened to US boxing. 

Ortiz has also beaten Thompson and Jennnings and is an Olympic Silver Medalist with clear fundementals. I think Del Boy beat Whyte as well. Wilder basically put Ortiz down not even from a clean hit. His fundamentals may be poor but his power and speed is real. 

Wilder should come over, but people should put Eddie in his place in trying to push Whyte. As boxing fans we should want to see Joshua vs Wilder made as soon as possible. 

.  

Just now, Stortz said:

Why on earth would Joshua fight Wilder in Vegas for literally 10% of what he could make here? Your hope that his management could put together such a fight is hopelessly misplaced; prior to Ortiz he was getting less than 2k watching him knock over tomato cans in nowheresville Alabama.

Whyte- let alone Parker- would beat Wilder imo, he is one of the worst boxers to ever hold the heavyweight title. His resume is a complete joke, he's had 39 fights before getting in with someone with a pulse and even then he nearly got ko'd by an old age pensioner!

If he really wanted the AJ fight it could be made in days and he would earn at least 4 or 5 times more in that one night than his entire career so far even at 30% of the take. He is using AJ's name to build his profile while having little interest in actually fighting him until it's cash out time. Unfortunately for him Whyte will be mandated by the WBC now so he is fast running out of options- and if that goes to purse bids he will get considerably less than the £5m Hearn has already apparently offered him.

10% of what he could earn in Vegas? I'm pretty sure McGregor vs Mayweather beat Joshua's PPV numbers even in the UK. I'm not a fan of Vegas and there is perks for the UK being able to draw world title fights over here, but the money and prestige is different.  

Ortiz is a level above Whyte so Wilder can't be as bad as you claim. Whyte is a European level fighter who could barely beat Del Boy. The WBA will probably make Whyte fight Breazeale as an eliminator. Let the winner fight the winner of Joshua v Wilder.