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That was some time ago and it was a sophisticated fraud, lots and lots of multiple sets of paperwork.

I'll let Gabay off - with a European arrest warrant and an extradition case - even I have some sympathy!

I suspect that the amount was less than £10 million and was actually repaid from the MSD loans. It may well be that Gabay had other matters on his mind and the paperwork was never dealt with at the time.

It doesn't say the Charge was simply satisfied in full. It could well have been repaid months ago, but the general public will never know. That's my understanding - arrested in France - extradited to Germany - posted bail - went home. Investigations continuing. He's also had a fairly nasty spat with an ex-business partner that has been through the UK courts, plus his business was successfully sued in respect of a Carribean development.

That is a correct statement but not really insightful, a bit like saying "the sun comes up every day". Each time a set of accounts are audited the auditors need to reconsider what the appropriate accounting policies are. Derby are perfectly entitled to submit their accounts to an auditor for any year based on any amortisation methodology they like provided that (with full disclosure - unlike 2018 and earlier (because I know that our friends from away like to pop in)) an auditor signs it off as compliant with FRS102. The methodology can then be tested. It is also not clear that Derby have yet been charged with any 'excess loss' FFP offences for any year. As far as I am aware the investigation continues. Once the accounts are agreed then the FFP position can be clarified. It is not immediately obvious that Morris is owed anything by the football club or Sevco 5112 (the parent of the football club) or by Gellaw Newco 203 Limited (the parent of Sevco 5112). Firstly no indebtedness to Morris is shown in the accounts to 30 June 2018 for the first two, no accounts have been submitted for Newco 203. The accounts for Sevco 5112 show £40 million owing to Newco 203. Secondly there remains the mystery of the £75 million remaining for the stadium at 30 June 2018. It is quite possible that Morris is owed nothing. The stadiun was lent £75 million by Morris, which it used to pay for the Stadium. Football lent the money to Sevco 5112. Sevco repaid the £40 million to Newco 203, and let the balance to Newco 203. Newco 203 repaid Morris the £40 million (assuming that Newco 203 simply acted as a conduit for the cash). So Morris is £35 million worse off in cash, and Newco 203 is £35 million better off. So in 2019, 2020 and 2021 Morris pays in his £13 million a year (for FFP purposes) and the Football Group burns through that plus the £35 million in cash held by Newco 203. The £39 million from Morris, plus the £35 million cash in Newco 203 plus the £25 million (say) in unpaid HMRC debt would give cash losses of £100 million to Administration, which looking at other clubs is not far off.

Or even on reading the independent accountants' report and all the evidence in the case it was decided by the Administrators and their advisors that the case was hopeless. No doubt the report also details the approximate loss position for accounting purposes which demonstrates the implied position for FFP for years to 2021 in which case the only sensible decision was to say 'can we adjourn and see if we can agree an overall settlement'.

Paragraph 42 of the Portsmouth judgment makes HMRC's position at the time pretty clear: It was abundantly plain from the outset of this hearing that HMRC has throughout been motivated by two very significant factors. First, it has a policy (which sounds as though it is invariable) to oppose any CVA which does not treat unsecured creditors within the same class equally. That has guided it throughout this matter. Second, it has a deep-rooted antipathy to the football creditor rules. It considers them to be quite contrary to proper insolvency principles and (if it is different) to be contrary to public policy. I have already referred to the challenge to those rules that it has mounted elsewhere. Derby's case could be the perfect one for HMRC to achieve their aim of neutering the Football Creditor's rule.

I suspect that Mel got cold feet in 2019, thought he had sold the business and therefore stopped funding. This is also why later accounts were not submitted as the owner would need to agree to fund teh club for another year to be able an auditor to sign off on a going concern basis. It would have been easy to agree with EFL that the accounts will be submitted and the FFP submissions revised following the outcome of the Tribunal. If the 2020 tax is still outstanding and HMRC were threatening to restart winding up proceedings 'Solely' is looking dodgy. Whilst you are here @AnotherDerbyFan what's your view on HMRC negotiating on the tax debt given their published view and their actions in voting against the acceptance of the proposals and subsequent court actions in Glasgow Rangers and Portsmouth?

A well known regulatory body or a bit of journalistic flyer? Not sure that the Administrators can actually call a Creditors' meeting. They send the proposals to exit Administration to the Creditors and they either vote yes or no. 'Deemed Consent' simply means if you do not vote in time you will be deemed to vote in favour.

Which three point deduction? The one detailed in an 'Agreed Sanction' or detailed in a 'DC decision' or mentioned in a 'tweet'? Not sure the general public have seen the revised accounts for 2016, 2017 and 2018, let alone any accounts for 2019, 2020 and 2021, so not sure why there is anything other than that pregnant pause ... Plus I still expect HMRC to vote against any 'exit from Administration' and force The Derby County Football Club Limited into liquidation, at which point any points deduction is irelevant.

Derby really need to get moving with their season. Cardiff won and Peterborough lost, both have 15 points from 17 games. As regards Derby - With 18 (gross) points from 17 games that gives them a generous season total with no deduction of 49 points. That would see them survive in all but two of the last 10 seasons. With the 12 point admin deduction a net total of 37 that would see them relegated in all of the last 10 seasons. Cardiff/Peterborough in 21st place are currently on target for an ungenerous 40 points ..... which on current forcasts would mean that Derby will survive on 41 points, a total that would have seen them relegated in 5 of the last 10 seasons. However with their estimated net total is no longer sufficient to predict any chance of survival. I've ignored Reading for now as there is no official announcement and there are reports of a 12 points deduction of which 3 are suspended and a 9 points deduction of which 3 are suspended.

It depends upon what you mean by impact. For purely accounting purposes (everything else being even) relegation will increase losses by around £10 to £12 million. The P&S rules are different, a club newly relegated to League One can spend 75% of it's income on football squad wages, there is no FFP as we know it and all other costs such as amortisation are ignored. The standard limit is 65%. Plus any donations (without cap and as opposed to loans) from the owner are treated as income. So if the total football income was £20 million the club could spend £15 million on wages. If SL gave the club £20 million they could spend a further £15 million on wages. Administration is highly unlikely on relegation

Yep - in most insolvencies deemed consent is used to simplify matters and reduce the paperwork. Currently I can only see HMRC objecting to the proposals if any creditor does not get paid in full.

Having now read the Debenture it refers to a Funding Framework Agreement on Page 2 which confirms that MSD has lent further funds to the football club.

On related issues the Rams Investment Limited/Gabay Charge against the Stadium Group has been repaid in full. A new charge against the Stadium Group has been put in place from MSD. Two possibilities, more funds have been borrowed from MSD solely secured against the Stadium Group, alternatively it is part of a clean up for disposal as the previous charge against the Stadium Group and Football Group has been called in. Personally I suspect the latter.

mmmm - I would have more confidence in their arguments if: 1. They discussed 'solely'; 2. They discussed the HMRC winding up petition in January 2020 and the proximity of the Administration to HMRC recommencing winding up petitions on 1 October 2021. 3. They could also tell me what happened to the £75 million odd owed to the football club for the ground. As seen in the Rangers and Portsmouth court cases HMRC do fight their corner consistently in respect of voting against cases where 'special rules' like the Football Creditors rule applies. Therefore there is every chance that HMRC will vote in the same way again, which could mean that The Derby County Football Club Limited may not be able to leave Administration and would therefore enter Liquidation.

All we can do is sit and wait and see what happens. However I only assume that the EFL will follow their rules and that until paperwork is submitted and a full and final settlement is reached with Derby (including a comprehensive business plan) they will be bound by the current soft and hard embargos.

Both Cardiff and Derby lost today, Cardiff really need to get moving with their season. As regards Derby - With 17 (gross) points from 16 games that gives them a generous season total with no deduction of 49 points. That would see them survive in all but two of the last 10 seasons. With the 12 point admin deduction a net score of 37 that would see them relegated in all of the last 10 seasons. However Cardiff in 21st place are currently on target for an ungenerous 34 points ..... which on current forcasts would mean that Derby will survive on 35 points, a total that would have seen them relegated by at least 4 points in every one of the last 10 seasons. I've ignored Reading for now as there is no official announcement and there are reports of a 12 points deduction of which 3 are suspended and a 9 points deduction of which 3 are suspended.

Albeit on the HMRC bit I did read one site that said that they would be open to accepting but it depends on varied factors. @Mr Popodopolous I completely agree with your quote, but would respectfully point out to m'lud that it doesn't take into account HMRC's published position where preference is given to one group of non-preferential creditors over another. Precisely what Football Creditors are.

The published figures will be a summary. Full details will be provided if you can meet the Administrators' demands. Nope - the penalty will be applied at the date of default - then it is potentially suject to deferral to next season if Derby are relegated without the deduction. Nope - paying the amounts due to HMRC is not part of paying your football wages. However having overdue HMRC PAYE/NIC debts puts you into an embargo. There is also the Business Plan which will need to be agreed or imposed on the exit from Administration. A points penalty can be imposed for any breach of the Regulations. I suspect that everything will be wrapped up in one large agreed decison. The other issue which needs to be endlessly repeated to hope it gets picked up elsewhere is HMRC's published policy on voting against CVAs, where there is an arrangement where some parties are treated preferentially as Football Creditors are. Whilst a CVA and an Administration are different they have the same net outcome. If HMRC vote against the Administrators' proposals and those proposals are lost then DCFC is likely to go into Liquidatin unless all creditors are paid in full.

The Administrators will have a good handle on the numbers by now. They need to be published shortly at which point everyone will know what the balance sheet will look lke. Yes the appeal is due to be heard next week. The issue I think is not on whether 'Covid' qualifies, but more was it the sole reason for the Administration. Given the pre-existing HMRC debt, there was a winding up order in January 2020, and the restarting of winding up orders by HMRC in October 2021, plus the apparent lack of funding from Morris in the intervening period, I have serious doubts that any appeal will succeed. Allegedly two or three. I have my doubts about Chris Krichner, something doesn't feel right about his public wealth and the difference with the suggested wealth available. Derby have the following: An actual 12 points penalty for Administration - under appeal An agreed 3 points penalty for failure to pay football wages - suspended until 30 June 2022 - activated if there is another non-payment. A points penalty for EFL FFP failings, Morris says 4 points - I suspect significantly higher. Currently under negotiation as to whether or not an agreed sanction can be reached.

On a related issue Cardiff really need to get moving with their season. As regards Derby - With 17 (gross) points from 15 games that gives them a generous season total with no deduction of 53 points. That would see them survive in all but one of the last 10 seasons. With the 12 point admin deduction a net score of 41 that would see them relegated in 5 of the last seven seasons. However Cardiff in 21st place are currently on target for 37 points ..... which on current forcasts would mean that Derby will survive on 38 points, a total that would have seen them relegated by at least 2 points in every one of the last 10 seasons.

There is a gap between the rules for companies in Administration and the EFL Regulations. Where a company enters Administration there is no obligation to submit outstanding accounts, but a statement of the financial position at the date of Administration has to be submitted to Companies House. However the FFP rules require submission of audited accounts otherwise the club will remain in Embargo. That is one of the many circles that will need to be squared. Once the company comes out of Administration accounts for subsequent periods will need to be submitted.

No - Accounting period used is either the formal company/group accounts to a date ending in the required period (May to July) or specially prepared accounts to a date ending in that period if the company/group has a different accounting period.

We are not are you? Why? FFP is something which impacts on every club. Oh and no one is suggesting that you read any of it.