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There is some wriggle room in the EFL guidance and regulations - I think that the guidance uses the word 'may' when referring to agreements with ex-managers in the sense of 'those contracts may be football creditors'. Either way the English needs to be tightened up - the word 'fooball' or the word 'unsecured' should be omitted.

I don't believe so - I think that it is just a statement of the obvious of what Cocu's debt is. It is not secured (unlike MSD) and it is a Football Creditor.

I agree So did I, it agrees the figure in the 2015/16 accounts, but not those for the two later years. The accounts figures are about £10 million more, which has a significant impact on the losses.

I'm not convinced by those figures, as except for 2015/16 I can't tie them into the accounts. The relevant additional intangibles in 16/17 were £21.1 million and in 17/18 were £15.0 million and the 2018 accounts refer to acquisitions of £18.5 million. @AnotherDerbyFan's figures might be right, just presented differently.

And as stated by Rennie the speed and athleticism of the centre-backs, and presumably skill, means you can push your midfield futher up the pitch as you don't need all of them to cover all of the time.

I've just been over on www.dcfcfans.uk - definitely getting more jittery over there.

The MSD accounts state simply that "one of the underlying borrowers associated with a £15 million loan held as of year end, entered into administration." I would say that the total MSD exposure to The Stadium Group and The Football Group was £15 million (plus interest and costs). No one in the outside world has seen the loan documentation and so no one knows who the actual borrower was. The decision of the directors of the football club to put that company into administration triggered the rights of MSD to appoint Administrators even if the football club had no debt due to MSD because of the the legal charges put in place.

Interest is still payable on time to pay. But clearly any compromise will take into account the total liability including interest and late payment penalties.

I simply don't believe that this is the whole story. Three main reasons: Firstly Morris claims this; Was there not a £20 million amortisation hit in 2019 - I know that this will have unwinded to some extent; If it was all about just 4 points it really should have been sorted far earlier than now.

HMRC's published policy is interesting - VAS help sheet (publishing.service.gov.uk) - it applies to CVAs not Administrations but the following paragraph is interesting: Rejecting a voluntary arrangement We are also likely to reject a voluntary arrangement where there is evidence of: • any proposal by any member of any organisation that requires debts owed to its members, to be paid in full, whether inside or outside of the arrangement or before or after the completion of the arrangement when all other unsecured creditors will become bound to accept a compromise of their debt. Here ‘members’ includes any prescribed associate(s) or other creditor(s) specified by the organisation My personal view is looking at the matter from a different angle - how valuable is Derby's membership of the EFL? If HMRC fail to get full payment and force the company into Liquidation it will send a very strong message to other clubs as to what will happen. They may loose £20 million this time around, but how much more will they recoup in the long run if clubs understand that Liquidation is the ultimate outcome of failing to pay HMRC.

As long as the lender is paid the amounts due under the loan agreement then they won't care.

Ah yes - but as the debt on the stadium is from a third party then to me it doesn't really matter in the same way.

This is the group cash flow, so includes proceeds for the football club as well as the parent. A rough reconcilliation of the £16 million could be: Football Club 2019 accounts £3.5 million Football Club 2021 accounts £6.7 million 'Brucie Bonus' £6.5 million Total £16.7 million The football club accounts show the receipt of two tranches of £7.5 million in deferred consideration for the stadium sale.

Personally I've never understood that view. The rules say that you measure over the set period and have a limit for that period. If a club's spending control is so bad they have multiple breaches it's only their fault surely? Any news on the appeal against the -12 points from your side? I have heard nothing. Oh and Derby are now on the Embargo list again for being in Administration!

Absolutely this (from someone at the game)

I would ask - what would you expect the Administrators to say? "We won't do our best to negotiate and we want to maximise the penalties?" As previously discussed the appeal process on the Insolvency Penalty is prescriptive - there should be an announcement soon from ome of the parties if an appeal has been made. The point regarding the accounts is entirely correct, but misleading. In administration the company will not be pursed for outstanding accounts. I would ask the Administrators what the position is, if the company successfully comes out of Administration as they will be required to submit accounts. Oh and the Company Law and Companies House position is irrelevant when considering the EFL Regulations.

Plus it is becoming increasingly obvious that he was only covering the cash that had to be paid out, so no PAYE/NIC for instance as that didn't have to be paid as HMRC were not going to wind the company up during the pandemic. So with a footballer on £1 million a year the take home pay is about £550,000 a year, that would be the cash cost covered by Morris. The actual cost to the business would be a further £590,000 in PAYE and NIC that he hadn't met. The figures escalate significantly as for example amortisation of transfer fees and related costs are a non-cash cost as well.

Notice of the points deduction.

At the time all the entities were under common ownership and most of the rights and benefits of occupation sat in the club due to the lease. It's not at all uncommon in groups of companies.

The land is transferred in the usual way and the consideration is left outstanding on a loan account.

On the vexed issue of Force Majeure and any appeal on the -12 points: Derby will have to: 1. Within 7 days of receipt of the formal notice - appeal and provide all the documents they intend to rely on. 2. Pay the EFL £5,000. 3. Agree and pay for an independent accountant's report that will review the circumstances before and leading up to the Administration and report on the causes of the Administration. 4. Prove on a balance of probabilities that that there was a single event causing the Administration. If for instance the club still hasn't been paid for the ground they are stuffed before the process starts.

I could call in on my way home - about a 15 minute diversion ?

I plead the fifth!

With 10k posts over 20 years I assumed otherwise! Enjoy League 2 ?

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