AnAstonVillafan
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Posts posted by AnAstonVillafan
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Don't judge all Villa fans, or the club itself on the rantings of one guy on Twitter who is wrong.
There is some merit to what Purlsow is saying. FFP protects the top six and stops upwardly mobile from upsetting the order. FFP shouldn't force clubs to sell their homegrown talent unless its a business/footballing decision.
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21 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
Why do you think it's not fit for purpose?
Personally I think it needs to be harsher and the punishments more severe and over time keep reducing the allowed losses until eventually its at zero.
Because at the moment its holding back ambitious clubs and sustaining a hegemony which means only the Sky Six clubs can afford to overhaul their squads. There is a trap-door effect where Chelsea and Man City found vast foreign investment and were able to advance themselves from average outfits to world superpowers, and now they have pulled up the drawbridge behind them.
I believe the limit amounts need to be increased slightly in line with inflation but the punishments harsher, clearer and carried out in season.
Sometimes and club has to spend money to move forward, not just on players but on infrastructure, facilities, stadiums, etc.
Short term loss long term gains.FFP isnt about football, its about turning the football clubs into sustainable business'. If a business can earn an income, and that income generates a profit that its helping the club become more sustainable.
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7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
Putting aside the fact the ffp rules were introduced to protect the status of the elite clubs, the rules are the rules.
If you want to spend to compete then you need to raise that money. Produce another Grealish for example.
We're all bound by the same spending limits so no point crying about it.
This is the best Villa side I have seen in 28 years. I ain't crying.
But not many clubs can pull a £100m player out of their youth academy and sell him before he reaches his peak just to balance the books.
We will spend but we will also coach, drill and improve our players to progress.
I reckon FFP will be overhauled soon anyway.
Its not fit for purpose. -
10 hours ago, Rob26 said:
you sell to strengthen the squad, that's how clubs generate revenue outside of match day and tv and climbing the league, all the clubs your competing with do the same as well.
and invest heavily in the academy setup to generate money from spends which do not count towards FFP
everyone has to do it as well
I'm not sure how a team trying to elevate, move forward a level sells its best players and somehow strengthens by not replacing them. Man City didn't sell Aguero at the peak of his powers to get better. Spurs didnt sell Kane until he broke their scoring record. They got the best out of their top players.
Villa are in the top as of four now. We arent going to stay there by selling Douglas Luiz to Arsenal, unless he is adequately replaced. Same goes for Newcastle. How are they going to compete at the sharp end while Chelsea, Arsenal and City simply bring more in.
Academy setup ? Villa ? Jesus Christ we have always done that. 14 million on youth developmement to May 2022. 8 millon going in just now at the new inner city academy. It is literally what this football does. Davis, O'Hare, Ramsey, Archer, Chukwuemeka, Grealish all products of the youth setup sold on at profit.
The club is trying to increase commerical revenue and sponsorship to close the gap, but its a glass ceiling. FFP is merely stopping the Sky SIx from being challenged. -
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
Oh I do hope there is some truth to this. On paper yeah because this is the final year of the Grealish sale.
You hope that we are forced to sell players ?
How are Villa or Newcastle, Brighton or West Ham supposed to compete, get to a higher level without strengthening their squads ? -
On 22/01/2024 at 00:48, Mr Popodopolous said:
Just for the sake of the old stuff, I estimated Aston Villa and amortisation the other day. Some ballpark figures had they stayed down..
-£68.884m...
-£30m (Paying Xia's debt)
-£15.808m (Promotion Bonuses)
Underlying loss of-£23.066m pre tax.
Despite and including
£36.374m Fixed Asset Profit on Disposal (Villa Park)
£14.494m HS2 compensation.
£10.598m Profit on Disposal of Players
Parachute Payments and EFL to EFL and Solidarity distributions. Probably down from £22.27m to £10-11m.
Changed items
Final tranche HS2 revenue, £2.881m down from the aforementioned.
Rent on Villa Park, £2.6m.
Net Interest swing from -£596k payable to £848k receivable.
Amortisation of Player Registrations probably down £5-10m having had a look.
FFP target would be £9m or £10m for that particular year. They lost £9-10m in FFP terms in 2018-19.
Assuming all other income streams the same...
Before inevitable wage falls with departures and sales I make it a nailed on swing of £60-65m. Maybe a bit more maybe a bit less.
Obviously wages come off the bill but an interesting position.
The £30million debt to Randy Lerner was only payable if the club were promoted within three years of relegation.
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On 06/01/2024 at 00:20, Mr Popodopolous said:
Good question. They never did iirc! Not even for compensation, never mind some sort of retrospective change.
Points deduction for Man City won't cut it. If they are found guilty of all they are accused of..I dread to think.
Our survival did not hinge on that single game.
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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
Okay thank you and tbh it is new to most PL fans as it's mainly been properly enforced at EFL level in recent times. Everton moderate restrictions was the first rumblings but nothing much else..there are UEFA ones I guess for clubs who qualify for Europe.
It is an impressive upsurge. All told I used to have quite warm views towards Aston Villa- when O'Neill and a lot of his side were English up at the top end I thought "that's punching above- impressive". It is still exceeding expectations but feels more slick now but maybe the gap is also bigger.
Ah now the Man City stuff, they have finally been charged at long last but it seems to be moving at glacial pace, a sand timer. The Hearing is next Autumn.
Chelsea may have historic alleged breaches, still being investigated but could be charging towards failing the PL Upper Loss limit at the end of this season. Man United I wonder about their PL Upper Loss Limit compliance to this season.
Arsenal reportedly a bit restricted, even heard Tottenham and P&S but I've looked at their enormous deprecation for the stadium and I dunno whether the analysis is correct in that context.
All 4 appear to be presently compliant albeit I wonder a bit about the Lower UEFA limit for Newcastle and post this season Aston Villa maybe maybe not.
To be fair I actually in general find it a bit mind boggling that any PL perennial with all that money, undoubted good add-backs from strong infrastructure depreciation, a Cat 1 Academy and all those costs we can exempt and Community could seriously threaten the Upper Loss limit.
It is a great money pit much of the modern game.
I get it on one level but there can also be a satisfaction to getting up there with less or via clever recruitment. How sustainable Idk.
It can also come in quite handy for owners who don't want to spend. Mike Ashley was quite keen I imagine
Possibly Gold and Sullivan at times- Benham if he can keep Brentford at PL for a while longer on their likely cost base perhaps he will begin to repay his loans to himself.
I actually think the intention of FFP is a good and noble one but it is not enforced correctly. The gap between the PL and EFL is too large. I'm not sure how that can be fixed. Parachute Payments are a good thing but it needs a little tweak. Maybe reduce the figure or reduce the number of years.
Villa's recent success in mostly down to an astute, driven, coach. We need to get to a position where The Emery's Klopp's Iraola's and De Zerbi's and McKenna's can do what they do best and improve teams on the training pitch rather than in he transfer market.
I'm also fascinated as to how Ipswich, Sunderland, Hull and Coventry seem to progress without Parachute Payments while Watford, Norwich, Stoke and Huddersfield struggle with them although I understand that Huddersfield's old owner paid off loans owed to himself.
Man City ? Terrible. But nothing will happen to them, the Abu Dhabi's will not be put in any jeopardy and the Government will see to that.-
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I have said this to you before, most Villa fans , in fact most fans in the Premier League do not understand FFP or P&S.
Most PL lower 14 clubs fans believe it's simply a way of stopping the top six from being challenged by outsiders. I have never thought this personally but I can see why people do.
Everton's punishment has brought that into sharp reality for many. Because a lot of fans never considered that it could affect them. Now they simply see City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea turnover players with huge net spends, but when Forest, Villa, West Ham or Everton do the same, some authority has an issue with it. It is seen as anti-competitive and stopping wealthy owners putting money into their clubs.
As for Villa fans in general we have demanded transfer activity as a fanbase every year for the whole 36 years I have supported them. We literally shouted for Chairman Doug Ellis to get out of the club if we didn't think he had spent enough money.On Villa fan pages and groups right now fans are arguing with each other about how FFP may or may not affect transfer activity, and most of us have no or limited understanding of the restrictions.
Also, after ten years of utter shite, we find ourselves second in the Premier League. Many fans think transfer business is the only way to keep that challenge alive whilst competing in the European stage. I disagree with that thinking, but I am sure that the league is better if Brighton, West Ham, Newcastle or Aston Villa can upset the status quo and disrupt the old order.
There is nothing wrong with spending money. Its not a bad thing.-
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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
Anyway I'll bite my tongue a big on Aston Villa for now..I'll try.
Until more comes out on this story.
Let it go.
All that abuse stuff was a bit silly if you ask me. I just don't care. The important thing was that the Villa got three points.
Most Villa fans have got even more pressing matters to concern ourselves with.
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On 21/12/2023 at 16:55, Mr Popodopolous said:
Do I support another side, Redsocks?
Bristol City and England for me..Well I have a couple of other nationalities so obviously when they aren't playing England I don't mind them winning.
Club level though, nope.
Clearly Aston Villa are a good side, presently well run and Unai Emery top is a top manager/coach. However their fans are arrogant, sanctimonious, bang on about other clubs and their apparent FFP while disregarding a key foundation to their success, bit holier than thou maybe.
Their club are little better given the moaning over Watkins.
Leicester was a precipitous rise, Aston Villa though have shelled out loads..making the most of it at last but seem quite freespending.
The only foundation to our success, Mr Popodopolous is our ownership. We have spent money, yes.
You actually need to do that in Premier League to progress. There is nothing wrong with that.
Our owners have put in the club a similar amount of money to what Brighton's owner has put into that club. And less than what Arsenal, City, United, West Ham have put into theirs. -
9 hours ago, luke_bristol said:
What a strange bunch, have they all just agreed to pretend they weren’t recently a Championship club and cheated their way to promotion?
Aston Villa did not cheat. Two investigations found no wrong doing.
It was good ownership and astute decisions leading to improved footballing performance that got us promoted.
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10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
Entitled and whining fans Evertonians. A lot of PL fans ditto.
They got what they deserved, only a year or 2 too late to have a meaningful effect.
Albeit they beat Chelsea today, could easily finish midtable irrespective.
Who says cheats never prosper eh.
And they think the punishment is overly harsh !!
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31 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:
From my perspective , I see teams like Bournemouth getting a £7M fine for breaking FFP but in a Promotion year is a piss take. Seeing Clubs selling their Grounds to themselves is a piss take , all be it you are not Derby and it wasn't against the rules . I was reading a bit that said Villas costs for the promotion year was near £50M then you spent £135M net !
If our owner had done the same and spent the same we would have found a way not to get promoted , but as fans looking at what is supposed to be an *even playing field, it's annoying.*it's not , but it used to be closer when it was all one entity.
I hear what you're saying. These owners are taking risks and leveraging in a desparate attempt to reach or return to the PL.
There's never an even playing field. If you think its uneven in the Championship, its worse in the Prem.
Villa's costs included a contractual payment to a former owner iirc. We did spend far too much especially in 2016 under the previous owners and that in my opinion was reckless. As I said to Mr P we were very fortunate with the change of owners. Without that, or if we had beaten Fulham at Wembley and gone up (which would have been a false dawn) I reckon we would have gone into administration.-
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24 minutes ago, phantom said:
No, they are two separate entities.
If the FA was issuing the punishment it would be different
Same as any punishment for Man City would only see them drop into the EFL
The point is you currently have enough cover, Newcastle have gone down to the bare bones.
They're using two keepers and a number of kids on the bench, and have been playing a 17 year old the past few games
Believe me I know all about Villa, as a very close friend of mine is a massive Villa fan. I went to a few games with her last season but haven't been yet this season.
Fuuny you say that because I work with a few Bristol fans who I have visited Ashton Gate with and and taken to Villa Park with me as well. I want to see Bristol City do well.
I post on here from a position of respect and wanting to defend my club as well.
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7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
What I find odd is that when it comes to your own club you say it's all fine because the club say its fine.
You've then posted some pretty damning stuff about Man City. Man City have themselves said they are not guilty and have irrefutable evidence to prove so.
Surely if both clubs are saying they are not guilty then you should hold the same view for both clubs?
No.
I say its fine because the club submitted to and complied with with an EFL investgation and the Premier League reviewed and confirmed compliance in accordance with their own policies and procedures.
No double standards or hypocrisy at Kodjia's Wrist calls it. I would accept if we were found non compliant and direct my anger towards the previous owners.
Shocking defeat for Sprus there, Has Ange Postecoglou's bubble burst. Everton would be comfortably mid table without the points deduction, which the fans are only angry about because of the possiblity that it could relegate them. Big result for them. -
7 hours ago, phantom said:
I'd say it was pretty common knowledge that if Villa hadn't gone up the season they did the EFL were building their case against them
But they pushed boundaries and gambled and got in the Premier League so got away with it all
Fortunately for them they bombed out the inept Gerrard who was taking them down and have had an amazing start to the season
They've not really been hit by any serious injuries yet, and the extra European football will assumedly impact on them at some point
Havent been hit by serious Injuries ?
Emi Buendia did his ACL just before the season started. Tyrone Mings did his ACL on day 1.
Jacob Ramsay has been out with a metatarsal injury since pre season he's just coming back.
As is Alex Moreno who has played one game so far and Bertrand Traore as missed most of the season too.We have been impacted by injuries since the very beginning.
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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
Counterfactual is interesting. Had that loophole been shut forever ie never opened as UEFA didn't, I suspect Aston Villa either fail FFP getting a deduction or are hemmed in financially and don't get promoted in 2018-19.
Corrupt and wrong are 2 different things. One I hear most cited is Crystal Palace away but then again we can go back to Aston Villa being gifted a goal by Leeds without any strict obligation in 2019.
Getting promoted isn't always about finances. As a Villa what I'm I supposed to think about the loophole ? I don't like it.
The Crystal Palace away goal was a disgrace and a Man Utd fans themselves admit they were very fortunate to get a penalty when it was their playler who commited a foul, not ours.
Maybe these things even out ? -
7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
The way in which it was done is suspect..why does it still sit on the Balance Sheet in the way that it does. Unusual maybe.
Big sliding doors moment was the Goal line tech not working as well. Goal Line Tech failing is unprecedented.
Big assist was HS2 going through your clubs Training Ground. Well it was and it wasn't. Financially it was in an FFP sense.
You also neglect to mention that you call it a loophole, it is a rule that was closed off and was only open for for or 5 years. UEFA never opened it, bit odd wouldn't you say.
I appreciate we've debated these before.
Its suspect yes. But there it is. It is what it is. A loophole used to save the football club ? Maybe ,
It is odd. I don't care anymore. If the football club say its compliant I will accept that, and not care about what anyone else says, unless they have seen the books. Case closed.
Its behind us now. No Villa fan worries about it with the season we are having right now. We have moved on.
The goal line tech was not a turning point. We lost more points to corrupt and erroneous refereeing that season than we gained in that Sheffield United game. Its just that rival fans and some media obess over that one incident, totally forgetting the times we were wronged.The HS2 compensation was completly justified. Bodymoor Heath is a valuable asset in which the club invested heavily and recompense for losing a portion of it is fair.
Anyways this Everton vs Newcastle is quite good the toffees have scored so it will be interesting to see if Newcastle can respond.
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22 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
Your owners sold your stadium to themselves which saw your narrowly avoid breaching ffp.
I'd say clubs like yours, doing things like that, is what is wrong with English football.
Man City haven't done that.
So yes, it is you.
If you think we're in the same boat as Man City, then there is no hope for you. We were investigated and no wrong doing was found. It's good enough for me.
I'd be furious if we were convicted and I'd concede to your opinion. I'm not going to accept a rival football fan saying we're guilty of something when professional investigators said we are not. I will admit that selling the stadium is a dodgy practice and personally I dont like it. But we as fans can not influence that.
Man City are not co-operating with an ongoing active investigation. They are using top lawyers to delay and frustrate over one hundred charges. They may well be found not guilty, but the evidence is damning even if you can question how it came to light. Could be three or four years before there is even a hearing, and they have transformed into the dominant force in European football in the meantime.That is a bad joke.
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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
Historic good fortune I mean
Full credit now of course but there were a couple of sliding doors moments in 2019 and 2020.
To a degree but I'd have to look at the Additions to Intangible Assets etc it's a mix- had you kept Dean Smith in November 2021 Aston Villa may have slid back down.
Emery a very good manager of course.
As I said before we got lucky only with the ownership. Thats the only sliding doors moment. If they never brought us when they did, we'd be where Sheffield Wednesday are right now.
Sometimes it's good for a football club to advance, move forward. Our owners put the money in to keep Jack Grealish, only eventually selling him for the correct price. They also sacked Bruce, Smith and Gerrard at the right times. With Emery in, he has been provided with everything he needs and backed to advance us.
And my goodness did last night feel good. If there is a club out there which is everything wrong in English club football Man City is that club.Not us
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19 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
I'll concede they have very much made the most of their spending and good fortune.
We have five players out injured. That is not good fortune.
The starting line up last night had just two of the current managers signings. The key here is improvement of existing players through coaching. Our captain was signed by Steve Bruce while we were in the Championship for less than £3m.
So less spending and fortune, and more coaching, planning, good recuitment, building confidence and installing a culture and mentality. The money helps and is needed but that's not what it's all about. -
19 hours ago, 1960maaan said:
Never used to have a problem , used to quite like them and remember watching the European Cup.
Just the arrogance of their fans and the sense of entitlement . That and cheating.
Aston Villa did not cheat, and passed EPL & EFL investigations.
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10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
Again I mentioned before, but Aston Villa, and FFP.
Nauseating given 2019.
Stadium sale and leaseback, plus accident of Geography for HS2...
Sanctimonious arguably, holier than thou maybe.
I really do query the accounting treatment of their stadium deal.
Let it go.
Sheffield Wednesday, Derby and Reading are finished. Can't you be happy with that ?I, like Ty Bracey am very happy that WE DID NOT BREAK ANY RULES. It is nice that we are not involved in any nasty stuff and we are seeing the benefit of that right now.
You can query this, but the EPL and EFL were satisfied with the sale and leaseback. (Which even I think is dodgy).
Possibly Gold and Sullivan at times- Benham if he can keep Brentford at PL for a while longer on their likely cost base perhaps he will begin to repay his loans to himself.
Birmingham to get a new ground?
in Football Chat
Posted
I hate Birmingham City more than most. I'd wet myself laughing if they went down.
But are they not allowed to try to be ambitious ? To be positive and hope for better things ? I don't begrudge them that.
To me the proposal for a new stadium is a load of nonsense. Something isn't adding up. I don't understand why they'd build a 55 to 60k capacity ground with
training facilities when they get average 20k crowds in the 29.5k capacity available currently. They own TWO training grounds but want to build another in the city.
The fans are already talking about a Man City style campus, NFL games, concerts and Premier League football. If they don't pull their fingers out they will be in League One next season.
I also would love the the details on this alleged revenue increase. They have spent on infrastructure in the last 9 months but where is that turnover coming from ?