tin

Clueless. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59739472

Silverwood, Lewis, Bobat, and Root (although there's no obvious candidate to replace him with) all need to go. 

58 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think Root is trying to assert some authority with the bowlers, as they aren't doing as they're told imo. 

It's not like he wasn't critical of the batting. That's clearly the main concern, though you could argue our batsman are also seriously lacking in practice/experience in Aussie conditions (certainly the openers where the main problem lies). And that's the thing with Broad and Anderson - they should know how to bowl in these conditions, given their experience.

Notwithstanding this, the whole squad is being hung out to dry by the ECB who haven't given Root and the Test side the support it has needed for years, with white ball cricket prioritised instead. You reap what you sow. 

Oh, I agree with Root trying to assert his authority, even if he never will shake off the public schoolboy who wouldn’t say boo to a goose tag.

As far as the batting’s concerned, I don’t think it’s a lack of experience down under at all. Most of these players have played either Tests, white ball, BBL, Lions, or even Grade cricket in Australia before. 

It’s got more to do with your spot-on final point IMO. These batting collapses have become the norm for England, at home and abroad, and the finger of blame at the ECB. They absolutely are reaping what they sow, and it’s a brain-dead strategy when you consider Test match cricket in England remains their biggest cash cow. 

8 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Bowling the right length would help though, and Anderson and Broad have been guilty of this for a couple of years now.

Both wield too much power in the national team. Legends they may be, but they have too much influence for me. Particularly Jimmy who has basically been told "you'll always get in the team until you decide to retire". Shouldn't be down to the player.

It would obviously help, but for context Australia bowled marginally more balls on a fuller length than us in Adelaide. The difference was their batsmen’s ability to leave the ball. They left 23% of deliveries; we left 17%.

I think Root’s trying to deflect blame from our batting fragilities. It’s wholly unrealistic to expect Anderson and Broad to rock up in Adelaide on top form when they’ve played no first-class cricket for months. Plenty of catches also went down. The bowling is the least of our concerns IMO.
 

On 18/12/2021 at 21:06, sludge said:

We’re Bristol City, most fans on here were turning their nose up at the suggestion of Steven Gerrard 18 months ago. Laughable 

Almost as laughable as the suggestion of Steven Gerrard, who a) didn't want to come here, and b) had a £4.5m release clause in his Rangers contract. 

3 hours ago, Northern Red said:

That cheeky little shit blaming the bowlers bowling the wrong lengths when the batting has failed 4 times in 4 innings.

I was surprised how tall Root is when he walked past me while I queued up for tickets for the Galle Test in 2018, but you're spot on. Bowling the right lengths doesn't matter at all if you continually fail to get big runs on the board. 

On Root in Australia, that's 21 Test innings without a ton. He's also now lost 11 out of the 12 Tests he's played Down Under (4 defeats and the draw were under his captaincy). 

2 hours ago, red84 said:

He might be the closest defender but watch how he continually backs off. Any decent defender that is scared of pace would be trying to get the opposition player onto their wrong foot. 

He's 24 now, since his full debut in 2016 he's had enough chances to change but he's always got a mistake in him.

Exactly. I'd be interested to see if there are metrics out there to measure mistakes resulting in goals conceded, because I suspect Vyner would be right up there. 

Sure, he wasn't alone in a woeful defensive display on Saturday. But, as you say, he's had more than enough chances now and never seems to learn from his mistakes. For that reason, he won't ever have a future at this level or above. In many ways, he's not much different to Taylor Moore in that regard. 

If nothing else, it's nice to wake up and see some application from our boys in this innings, even if that is just to keep the convicts out in the field. 

6 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Yep, and this ties in with my point above. Anybody other than him or Stokes (who I wouldn't burden with the job) isn't secure in their place in the side. The likes of Burns and Buttler have been talked about as potential leaders in the past but you wouldn't bank on either being in the team within a few months.

 

Buttler’s got a good cricket brain and would make a better captain than Root IMO, but he shouldn’t be in the Test XI IMO either. 

22 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Difference between "refusing to play" and "not ready to play".  If he had refused to play he would have been no where near the squad. 
Could be many reasons, disappointing that someone fit enough for the bench, doesn't feel he can start  game. Plenty on here have said he can't last 90, maybe he felt the same. 
IMO he should start, then you can change it at 60-75 minutes if needed. We concede to many chances, another player that can defend would be no bad thing.

He’s a professional footballer who’s been named in the starting XI 24 hours before kick-off only to say he doesn’t feel ready to start. That’s refusing to start IMO. Otherwise, I agree with you — tell him he’s starting and he’ll get an hour. It’s not his place to say whether he starts or not IMO. He was available and selected.

Pring refused to play, according to James Piercy. 
 

10 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Yep how many times does he get caught on the wrong side of his man… you can get away with that in L1 or Scottish pub football, but not in the Championship

Spot on. Some turn a blind eye to his obvious failings, possibly because he’s come through the academy. But, as NP says, defenders are in the side to defend and he doesn’t have the foggiest idea about even the basics IMO. 

54 minutes ago, Sandhurst Red said:

Not my style whatsoever to turn on one of our own, but so angry, I'm actually sat at the gate typing this.

How does he get a place in our team, let alone starting XI.

Absolutely bloody awful. 

Anyone else see differently?!

Nope, you’re dead right — and I’ve been saying it for more than a year.

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

So is Vyner the scapegoat when Bakinson is on the bench?

Vyner was back defending his box, you cant just go diving in and you can't prevent every pass. There was much worse defending for the goal than vyner.

Vyner’s no scapegoat; he’s just shit and nowhere near good enough for this level.

Vyner does absolutely nothing to stop that cross coming in. Pathetic.

10 minutes ago, Banjo Island said:

Omg how could anybody possibly fall for that 100% dive what a proposterous decision

Poor decision, but Vyner was caught ball watching again and gave the ref a decision to make. If he reacts quicker, he gets there first and clears. 

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Welcome back Tommy.

Terriers:

 

Surprised they managed to keep hold of O’Brien. I’d have him here in a shot if we could get him, which I doubt. 

4 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Based on the team sheet I'm guessing its 352

 

                     Vyner.     Kalas.    Atkinson

Scott     Massengo.   James.   Benarous.    Semenyo

                    Weimann.       Martin

 

either that or push Semenyo forward into a 343 with Benarous wide

I reckon it’s a 3-4-3 with Benarous on the left.

2 hours ago, Globe Trotter said:

Like the look of that, I would replace Woakes with Mahmood as would like to see more of him 

I’d like to see more of Mahmood, and Parkinson, but not at the expense of Woakes. We need his batting.

Back to this Test and if Starc and Lyon were to be taken out, this is a second-string convicts’ attack. The bowling figures back that up.

2 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Aus batting again?

Surely not. It’s the worst time of day for batting, supposedly. Rain forecast for tomorrow as well.

EDIT: they are batting again!

Smith would be mad not to enforce the follow-on. I reckon we will be 2 or 3 down by the close. 

I’m in favour of ringing the changes for Melbourne:

Hameed, Yates, Malan, Root, Stokes, Foakes (wk), Livingstone, Woakes, Robinson, Wood, Anderson/Broad. 

At least that XI has more balance and variation to it. It won’t happen, though. 

Root & Malan combined 302-2 in this Ashes series so far. 

All other England partnerships: 314-24. 

Absolutely pathetic. 

The best keeper in England never gets selected. What’s Pope done since getting a ton in SA two years ago? Burns crabbing around has never been up to it.

Malan’s been overlooked for too long and gets brought back in when he’s 34. Hameed’s worth persevering with, at least he has technique. I’d rather have Livingstone in this XI, batting at 7 and bowling wrist spin but he can’t even get in the squad. Get Foakes in and maybe Yates. 

I remember the struggling England sides of the ‘90s, but they were were up against a much better quality opposition. McGrath, Warne, Lee etc compared to Richardson and Neser — no contest. This current crop consistently plays poor shots and is unable to soak up any pressure. We will be following on soon enough.

The buck stops with the ECB, but the cupboard is pretty bare.

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Brennan was my favourite although he was a proper wing back in days when they were comparatively new and there were not many to compare him too. I remember a game where he was on the bench as he had only returned from international duty the night before, he came on when we were 1-2 down and we won the game 5-2. I don't think I have ever seen one player make so much difference from the bench, certainly not a left back.

Scott was culture personified and Barnard and Bell were similar players, better going forward than defending.

I think that was when we beat Blackpool at home 5-2 in ‘99. I totally agree with what you said about his impact, and still remember that to this day. He was awesome that day. 

11 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Firstly re Scott, we also got £450k, which Joe largely spent on Martin Kuhl, so whatever we think of him, that sale enabled him to sign an experienced central midfield pairing.

With McAllister & of course it is subjective, but unlike many of the others, he was primarily a defender who was integral to the side that got us as near the Prem as we’ve got in 40 years & whose career included 6 seasons at Championship level, Mickey Bell, often seen on here as some sort of god (probably because of the free kicks & penalties) in contrast played just ONE season at that level in his entire career..

True. I was never a fan of Owers or Kuhl to be honest, although I recall Kuhl smashing in a screamer at home to Swansea. 

RE McAllister, I can't agrue with that at all. But I did prefer Scott, Barnard, Bell, Brennan because I like to see our teams play with width and I love a full-back who chips in with goals and assists. Barnard and Brennan both went on to play in the PL after leaving us, mind. 

It always baffled me how we had a succession of great LBs but couldn't find a decent RB for love nor money.

2 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

.. and both took us closer to achieving top flight football again than any other manager since the great Alan Dicks

Perhaps SL should name a stand 'The Johnson Stand' in recognition of the services that family have given the club? 

Is that a joke? 

LJ coasted on the momentum of a double-winning squad built by SOD and Cotterill. The club was perfectly positioned to 'achieve' what he achieved, a more ambitious appointment would've probably made more of the unprecendented resources (both in terms of the squad he inherited and the money) he had at his disposal. 

He deserves credit from bringing Brownhill with him from Barnsley, for insisting on signing Webster if we were to sell Flint, and for improving players on the training ground, but not a lot else - and certainly not a stand being named after him! 

I don't think his coaching skills have ever been in question and he'd make a good right-hand man. It was more his lack of experience to be the top dog and then the constant stream of bullshit that came out of his mouth that never endeared him to me.

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

This seems to me like one of those “the sun always shone when I was at school” posts.

I always admired Owers’ effort, but truth is he was nothing special, he played midfield in the side that got relegated & then in League One filled in a fair bit at RB. Certainly of the current squad Matty James is at the very least as good as him.

Owers certainly put in everything he had but he was fairly limited, Martin Scott on the other hand was the best LB I have seen play for us, better than Barnard, Brennan, McAllister, Bell or Bryan.

I agree with most of your post until you mention Jamie McAllister in the same breath as those other LBs. I can't have that at all.

We were blessed with goalscoring LBs for the best part of a decade back then, of which Scott was the first. The common denominator with all of them except for Bryan was they had Tinnion in front of them, who'd often tuck in on left midfield and allow the others to bomb on.

Sunderland got the better end of that particular deal. 

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Might also ask @frenchred to follow up.

SL sells tomorrow, new owner comes in...foreign.

What would you expect them to do?

What do you think that they could do within the regs.

Cannot stress enough, new owners do not or cannot reset the regs for a club. Although unlimited expenditure on academy eg is permitted, as it is with infrastructure...one other benefit could be if SL hasn't been putting in the full equity amount to fill the gap between upper and lower losses- although I think he has.

The loss and the position stays with the Club- not the Owner. New foreign owner couldn't give us a quick fix unless they gambled in Jan 2022 to spend all of our remaining headroom on strengthening the squad, we surged up, snuck into the PL via the playoffs...other than that...?

That aside there would be no quick fix and such an approach could land us with notable problems if promotion was not achieved this and only this season.

While there's no quick fix, SL could easily upgrade the academy to Cat 1 status and employ a DOF/Sporting Director to implement a proper scouting network that integrates with all the data the numbercrunching interns process at the training ground. For all the investment in tangible assets, the football infrastructure is lacking.