Always Believesham

As tickets have been taken off sale our end, my first thought was also to look at what Coventry were doing. It does appear to be almost the complete opposite of City, fills me with confidence too. Bristol City offering refunds, Coventry City enforcing refunds. Bristol City fans (as things stand) can only attend with a pre-booked ticket, Coventry City fans can only attend if they pay on the day. I, like an earlier poster, had left it late to make plans. I thought that was a wise move after their game at Rotherham was in doubt on Saturday! As it looks like it's going to be cash only on the turnstile there should not be a problem with other fans getting to the game but I'll be keeping an eye on the official advice. I also fully expect to arrive at the Pirelli to find some of the advice has not been properly understood/relayed correctly - even if I had a ticket, I would take cash to be on the safe side. The team that went out on penalties in the same round of the same competition last year? I think it puts us at a disadvantage! ?

Rest in peace Tinners He was the first City fan I met when travelling alone the first time to an away game and made me feel so welcome with his fascinating stories, universal knowledge of everything Bristol City and beyond. I told other city fans about this lovely bloke I’d met and they knew him, he had the same impact on everyone. As others have said, he was always genuinely interested in everyone but himself - such a knowledgeable and personable man. It always felt like he was looking out for everyone & even the most of frustrating away days was a good day out if you bumped into Tinners. Raising a glass to a top city fan and a great bloke

Standard Preston bogey team comment really, it's been a fair number of games since we won there, summed up by how many years since he was on loan with us I'm surprised he played as many as 9 games for City tbh, can't remember too much more about his loan spell

Would you believe, he scored for us the last time we beat Preston away!

I would like them to consider something to reduce kit clashes - particularly where there is an obvious difficulty for colour blind players/supporters. Refereeing teams should be able to identify potentially difficult clashes (there are free apps that show what the world is like for people with different types of colour blindness) and the league should be capable of gathering kit information as the kits are released, in the process identifying & mitigating potential clashes. I would expect them to consider introducing a rule that an away kit should not clash with the clubs own home kit. I get that football is a business now, moreso than the days of clubs having the same shirts for 4 years, but there is absolutely no reason to have a shirt you can only use in games that it would be perfectly fine to wear your home shirt in. Shirt sales have such little value at the top of the pyramid anyway; if it's about the money, let's deal with inclusivity first and then the money men can fight out whether you can have an extra sponsors patch across the players' shirts. If a team turns up with only their away kit/third kit and it's a particularly awkward clash, the home side should have a suitable alternative lined up.

Interesting to read info and opinions - seems the level of gratitude to SL has fallen slightly, I'm sure he'll be less invested (for want of a better word) himself, it must be so draining to watch countless millions go through something you love when all you've really got to show for it is the hope of a good season - 30 games would probably do it tbf). Unfortunately last year we had the opposite, after a good first dozen and a half games. I want to engage but know I am less than an amateur when it comes to this stuff - I don't mean to cause offense with naivety but feel free to totally disregard... I am not a finance pro but it may be helpful to compare; 2019-20 BCFC Holdings: turnover, £27m, loss, £8.5m BCFC ltd turnover, £16m, loss £6m Looking at between 2/3s and 3/4s of turnover are BCFC football club and probably a bit more or a proportion of losses. 2018-19 comparison shows a greater share of the Profits were BCFC club so when things are "good" money goes straight back into the club. Looks like as much as can be done, is done to move as much "loss" to holding company - don't think that will change. I know it's not as simple as that. SL exchanged £71m worth of debt for shares in 19-20, although nothing confirmed - is there anything in SL converting £26m debt to shares in the year? I think £24m is the limit for the 3 year period, would that point towards a something re:losses and agreement with EFL? or more likely a limit on what was allowed in 2019-20 (forcing him to do it in 2 steps)? I don't expect so, but this was is something he'd only done once before in 2013. Interesting to note SL created 155m worth of shares in the last 2 decades (all nominally valued at £1). I'm sure Burnley were only sold for £200m last year and they are a prem club with a lot more income due in the next 4-5 years. This bugged me, in the back of my mind thought the ST donations were 5k - link shows 5,434 bcfc.co.uk/news/fans-third-shirt-out-for-delivery/ Good point, is this all a move by SL? Get the accounts of the holding company out Pre-window, disclose the FC position after the window. What has been shared is an indication to how little we've got to play with but isn't showing all his cards (bracing ourselves for FC figures to be worse I assume?). I heard this about Tottenham and wondered if many other clubs did it... (Kieron Maguire podcast talked about Mourinho being on gardening leave, as a result able to agree a low slary at Roma, which is topped up by Tottenham). I think it would make sense in Holden, or anyone on a rolling contract's case - maybe not so with LJ, he struck me as shrude enough to get a pay-out promised in writing. You can't amortise it like a transfer though. I know it won't be lost on you that Stoke were also in receipt of parachute payments - they had an awful attempt at bouncing back, few clubs have made such a hash of trying to get back up there, they seem to have got themselves in a good place now though in terms of performance. To be in their position is pretty bad, although some teams that went up didn't spend much less than Stoke on succesful attempts. Stoke's owner is the highest salaried company director in the country with about £0.5bn p/a so it's not that they can't afford it - I know what you're getting at though, is the lack of income makes FFP the challenge. almost completely irrelevant to say now but we were promoted at easter, lost 4/6 and did implode in a way. fwiw I took the original point about Goater as tongue in cheek - it would be like selling a player to Newcastle on their way down, infintiley "bigger" club. We'll never be in a position to say no to everyone - what we did do was reinvest in Akinbiyi, and Anderson, and Thorpe, and other strikers. It seems we've struggled to buy more than 1 decent striker at a time since then!

Thank you to anyone that's helped bring this to the attention of people that matter. I am colourblind, red-green and have had more trouble with watching games on TV - but it did get worse on Saturday for me as the game wore on. I don't know if that was because the ball spent more time in the air or if there was less natural light. Personally I wouldn't have known how to raise it or whether it mattered to anyone that this was a problem. Ultimately the referee should have the final say, if Bournemouth had forgotten their kit and we'd pulled a snazzy white number out of lost property for them to wear, that would not have been approved weeks in advance & probably wouldn't have been an issue (I'm sure someone quite famously won a game in their opposition's youth team strip?!). They should be able to override the decisions on the kit. Another thing, remember all the threats from the league that went to Huddersfield after they unveiled their Paddy Power kit? Where's that energy when it comes to some folks not being able to follow the match?

It's a tough one between the Man City & Mansfield games, I can't imagine the Man City occassion (& sheer quality of opposition) being matched in the near future. Experiencing that 5-4 has probably made me think "5 minutes to go, there's a chance we can win this" at more hopeless times than I care to admit. There's also 3 from Carlisle that stand out for different reasons but all of them wins. 3-0 in 97-98 must have been when we started to get momentum, then 3-1 in 2007 got us to within a few points of the illusive promotion and finally the 3-2 when JET scored his hat trick, we hadn't won for ages.

If I remember correctly, there's a load of quoted figures (taken from "seaspiracy" - which Dale Vince produced) that flash up on the sponosrship hoardings around the ground throughout the match at Forest Green - not seen "the article" about it specifically though

Was that partly down to who he replaced? Although he was only on loan Doyle was scoring for fun at Swindon and I got the impression he was much more of a runner. I was never really a fan of Pitman, yes he scored a few but we didn't have a strong enough team to carry a player who rarely so much as closed a defender down, let alone tracked back or offer some inventive runs. Loosley linked to @exAtyeoMax's point, I think it was because I naively thought we'd replace Maynard with a player that did a similar job off the ball too. Having that direct comparison made his flaws stick out like a sore thumb.

Green shirts aren't the problem in my experience, but there may be people that can't see the green on green & wouldn't be surprised if people were having issues (I do wonder if what it's actually causing problems with is the technology that enables them to sell different adverts in different countries on the pitchside advertising). Back in the black and white TV days, weren't there generally accepted colours etc that couldn't be used? I would advocate guidance for clubs (& referees) that preferred stripes or distinctly different colours rather than outright banning colours. Tried that one with a few electrical diy jobs round the house - partner's father pointed out the new wires and suggested I might be able to give it a go in future now that we've seen the newer wires. I've realised that was just an excuse for me & I'm not particularly confident with electrical odd jobs.

I, like a few on this thread have to make do with colourblindness (interesting to read your experiences, it's frustrating how difficult some things are - especially when you have no experience of them). I shared my experiences with the team at work and did a little bit of research but am absolutely no expert in this. Aparently there are rods and cones that work together in your eyes so regular eyesight can detect 1 million colours. If one of the cones is not quite aligned perfectly you can loose tens of thousands of shades for the smallest defection. Football has never really been difficult for me in person (except the occasional confusing orange shirts with the yellow bibs used in 5-a-side) until really recently. In the space of 2 weeks, the one group I played with started using two lots of bibs that I can't even describe the colours of. Another game, one I organise, someone brought a ball I couldn't distinguish from the pitch. I felt like a dick to be honest - I've profusely apologised to the bloke with the ball and offered to get him a white ball out of the kitty. It was good of him to be on hand for if I'm late (fortunately if I'm not there, the problem's gone away!). I've never really struggled when at a game but can't remember any tricky colour clashes involving city, and even watching teams in the flesh, where seats are often the same colour as the home shirts, it's never been an issue. Watching on tv is a different matter though - there have been some classics in the past with Brighton in green and Southampton in red being one of the high profile recent ones. Did any of the colourblind city followers watch our game at home to Birmingham or Milwall last season? The red/green clash was too much for me - I had to take a break from watching. Watching City takes a painful concentration at the best of times, this was too much! Generally speaking, it's not that much of a problem these days, because the colours or shades are accessible on a computer (with an RGB value) and lights tend to have a place or do something like flash - but the whole red light/orange light thing can be hard (I tend to go by whether the speaker in question is chucking out sound or not, it's not sophisticated or sustainable). At least playing fifa I'll scroll through kits if I have to (or can). My partner is fascinated by all the crazy stuff I can't see properly, there's an app that shows people with normal colour vision, what it's like. Apparently it's amazing. Just for good measure I didn't know the dairy milk thing either, although it was going through 30 years of my life thinking peanut butter was green that tips people over the edge.

I also feel like Bolton have been getting preferential treatment - but from a business point of view (not saying this is how football should be run) they are marginally the more likely to survive and are a bigger 'brand' at the moment. That is what matters to the EFL. Shouldn't be forgotten that Bury had already agreed their CVA - this is quite a long way down the liquidation route (if I've got this right). Portsmouth were on the verge (10 years ago) because they couldn't get a CVA agreed, I imagine any attempt to agree one would be the next step for Bolton? I also believe that Bury do own Gigg Lane but took out loans against the ground (under the Stewart Day) from his companies at extortionate interest rates, so they do own the ground but only until whoever owns that debt calls it in. Kieron Maguire is right - full disclosure is essential, there are obvious difficulties around how competitive this makes a club but for one owner (Dale) and two prospective investors to not know the extent of the debt the club are in, it shows how big the problems are.

Really sorry to do this, could you post the content of the article please? I normally persist with ‘live’ websites but that one is absolutely riddled with refreshes and adverts. The first couple of paragraphs seem quite interesting (in a shameful, ‘classic efl’ way)

I understand that - and take your point, I do feel like Wigan, Reading et al. were in the right place at the right time when investment came. I would put the failings of Bury & Bolton down to owners chasing their losses - agree crowds are required to keep these teams afloat but is it out of the question that they should live within their means? I think Wigan are fairly sustainable, I doubt Preston's average attendance is much higher & assume they are well run (now, 2009 was touch and go) - ultimatley there are limited tickets to see giant clubs each week. How many people in Bristol support a premier league team & a Bristol Club? It's not out of the question that local residents will watch the team without considering them their first team. As a borough, Bolton is home to quarter of a million people, Oldham is apparently similar as a borough - if more people can watch Burnley at Wembley than actually live in the town (edit:Borough) of Burnley selling the sport isn't the problem, someone isn't marketing the club right. (populations from Wiki so take with a pinch of salt) My general point is, if it's a lack of bums on seats causing a problem - teams need to (& do) tighten their belts, they could reasonably expect to increase crowds with the right marketing too.

20 years ago, Oldham & Bury were both 2nd Tier clubs and Rochdale hadn't been promoted or relegated for 30 years (the epitome of stability on the face of things! I know they were probably riddled with debt and a dilapidated stadium). Wigan, Swansea, Reading & Cardiff have all seen a decent rise up the footballing pyramid since then - it could also be said that running a modest football club sustainably isn't that bad of an idea, that's not down to the fans. This country has the appetite to sustain more than 100 professional football clubs & most prove their worth to their communities every year. Rushden & Diamonds, Dagenham & Redbridge, Hayes & Yeading were all non-league and had to pool resources to make a step up, I do think they brought more to the community as a joint entity than as 2 individual teams [happy to stand corrected]. I'm not even sure Hayes & Yeading did much more than tread water - I think that merger was a necessity because of finances. I don't think one would gain even as much as the other two towns(?) would lose in this scenario, let alone do any more for the area. A well run club should be the pride of a town which can be relied upon to have its fair share of joys and disappointments, bumper crowds and leaner seasons - they should not have to empty their pockets to support it when the next failed businessman risks everything for an ego trip and it doesn't work. It happens time and again, just when you think football is beginning to learn

I was chatting to a Birmingham fan at the weekend - admittedly he doesn't pay a great deal of attention to the finances but assumed they were in some pretty dire straights - the Brum/Villa debate up here is; is an aggravated breach worse than blatantly flouting the rules? Without getting into the realms of valuing players as assets (which I don't think you can do) there isn't much difference. Previous reports suggested a possible 21 points could be docked but 12 + 3 makes sense because it makes an example without limiting the EFL's options for future cases. I was trying to navigate the SCMP rules before posting - it looks like, any contract signed before September of the season a team was relegated can be excluded. Sunderland would be fine I assume, City had an exemption based on the ground being developed I think? But we did also have a remarkably small (but perfectly formed) squad for that season.

Sheffield Wednesday announced that they were under an embargo 20minutes before the season started and Birmingham were unable to register one of the players they signed, until certain criteria had been met - they’ve both been punished but was that as a result of FFP? Does anyone know who is currently under embargo? These would be prime candidates to have their accounts poured over in the spring. Also, I appreciate the point about Bolton, they have seen the kinds of problems these rules were set up to avoid! Could they be in even more trouble if they went down? ie. Are league one’s SCMP rules still set so that salaries cannot be greater than 60% of turnover?

I think it was a partly down to fewer mistakes from City, a less clinical Fulham side and something to fight for at the end... Sounds like I'm stating the obvious, but we seem to a. Be able to drag ourselves back into games now and b. Believe we can hold onto a win which is a world away from even Boxing Day

Just wow. For me, that topped Mansfield I wish the silly buggers wouldn't put us through it like today though, the first half was abhorrent. The second was ok, Reid's exuberance and Odemwinge's brain were difference between first and second halves. Will graciously take a loss and a win rather than 2 draws Awesome day out, loads of noise, managed to turn it around. Great to see Ayling fit enough to come on again too

Which, according to Statto, is the year we last won at the Hawthorns...

I would say the honeymoon period is over anyway, are 3 defeats out of 4 in all competitions not a sign of this? Not that I expected to beat any of Watford, Wolves or Brentford, for me, the honeymoon period was cut short when the Orient game was postponed - that's gone now though. I don't understand why Elliott's contract doesn't get its own article, this is an interesting situation but not entirely relevant to Saturday. Generally a scatty report that's only 50% about the game. I tend to read the opposition website's match reports and the football league paper for post match reports - any slant on City doesn't frustrate me as much

I am sorry - hadn't remembered this was an 8 page thread - guessing the majority of this has been covered If Pitman ever sprung the offside trap from the halfway line and carried the ball to the edge of the area i'd be surprised - definitely a luxury we couldn't afford, compare him to JET; JET is also a spectacular finisher but rarely gets the runs in alone. Pitman might as well have been a target man for the running he did Baldock's finishing will improve, I expect him not to score when he goes through one-on-one much like many City fans but I am confident he will start putting more of them away The point I came on this thread to make was that we could have been 4-2 up at half time; JETs miss was sheer nonchalance, 2 one-on-ones and a header that other strikers may have put away. I thought we lacked real cover for the back 3 today and the back 3 lost shape when one stepped up to meet a player that a CDM would have gobbled up - at times it looked like Gillett, Reid & Pack were interchanging and never really covering; at the expense of leaving the defence exposed, we created a plethora of chances. Start putting more than 1 in 7 away and the side will shoot up the league, I reckon Elliott will return against Wolves and these hances will dry up a little, so it's up to Baldock to put more of them away - or at least make sure his 1 in 5 are chances 1 and 6 not 9 and 10!

Bringing in an Experienced player straight out of the Brian Clough handbook, offer him the armband and he will drop a level 5 figure fee reported is great news I highly doubt he will be the disaster that Hunt and Stewart turned out to be - had to show him the longer contract because he would probably go on a free at end of contract to another Champ club if his contract wasn't renewed. If that was due in the summer then that would explain the 5 figure fee, the departure from his one club Optimistic about this one - has the potential to be a squad changer

Fair enough I'd always assumed the MK link!