Jordan Tansley

Just a quicky for Jordan re the Racism in football thing, Racism has been rife or had been rife in football since the turn of the century, Andrew Watson, Hong Y Soo (Iirc) and Arthur Warton, all suffered as did DIxie Dean. The 1980's and 1990's certainly were not unique in football especially in terms of racism or NF or other group membership either Though inflatable bananas and the rest of it are shocking.  

Also consider looking further afield, racism in Spain, France and Italy as well as the Battle of Belgrade and the two Melbourne teams giving each other grief in the A league and the Israeli league which has some horrendous stuff, that makes our racism problems look timid by comparison

 

Players to look at include

Dalian Atkinson

Aron Winter/ Edgar Davids

Ronny Rosenthal

Julio Ceasar

 

Teams

St Pauli for their stand against racism in the early 1990's

Red Star Belgrade

The Turkish League

Barcelona/Real Madrid (Basque vs Royalist)

 

 

May also want to look at historical reasons for racism outside of football especially in France and Germany, where Turkish descendents and North Africans come in for torrid abuse because of historical colonial and more recent refugee stuff. Indeed Merkel has gone on record and said multicultralism in Germany has failed and the slums/ghettos in France and changes of law between blood and birth right in the mid 1990s may be a consideration as well.

 

May be useful, may not be

Hey Ralph, Thanks for the comment. 

I had originally planned to have a much broader approach to the subject, but I was encouraged to choose a smaller period so I could actually create something readable. I think a study on the level you mention would be more useful if I was writing a PhD or writing a book! i don't think I could fit that all in to a 8-10k word limit!

The main thinking for choosing the 1980's and early 90's is simply there is so much evidence available it shouldn't be too hard to write something half decent. It also fits into providing a rationale for the piece, I want to see if there are any lessons that can be learned from our relative success in fighting racism that can be taken to countries that have similar problems now. (This part is mostly BS, but I've got to justify the piece...)

And I support o Driscoll, but not the board, can somebody explain how that makes me a hypocrite ? am I also a hypocrite if I support Bristol city but don't like one of the players ? is it hypocritical to claim to support citg but to prefsr watching reading ( or fgr or whoever happens to be winning ATM ) or do accusations of hypocrisy only apply to t bird.

Right, I'll just spell out what I think TRL is saying for you nice and simple?

You are welcome to your opinion on the board.

You kick up a fuss about bullies when people tell you they don't like your opinion on the board.

You are welcome to your opinion on SOD.

You treat people who dislike SOD exactly the same way you complain about being treated when you slag off the board.

If you can't see the hypocrisy in that, then there's no hope for you.

You are far to deep for me JT , I was brought up on Roy of the Rovers and Shoot magazine.

Now there may be the problem

Unfortunately a dissertation is a research project. I've got no option but to be 'deep'!! Probably going to be making a lot of stuff up just to fill the ******* word count!

You've obviously read Parklife. Was that your starting point?

I have not. Should I? 

My starting point was a book called 'The changing face of football' which is a social study in football around the period I'm looking at. It intrigued me to the point where I wanted to look at the hooligan/racist couplet and how that influenced the kick it out campaign. 

I'm starting to come down on the side that the anti-racism agenda was initially instigated as a way in which to further control the working class football fan or hooligan in line with other measures like all seater stadia. That's quite a negative and cynical approach, but when you look at the timings of the whole thing it does seem that the anti-racism agenda was kickstarted long after the problem needed attention. It wasn't until football fans had actually stopped the en masse abuse, like that of Paul Canoville or Garth Crooks, that the agenda was really pushed. That's not to say that racism wasn't a problem by 1993, but it sure as hell wasn't on the same level as NF recruitment at Stamford Bridge or Elland road etc.

Simple, I see nothing nothing in his record that proves that he will ever deliver a sustainably consistent team and that is what is needed to compete at whatever level you play at.

Ok, fair enough I suppose. 

As a counter argument, would you not agree that he took a small club in Doncaster to their ceiling, if you will? If he were to do that with us, we'd be top end Championship (As that is where I would class our potential)

Also, would you not agree that there has been a fundamental change in approach from the top to bottom at this club, and that it is essential for us to do that? I personally see it that way. Whether it takes 1 year or 5 years it's so important to get this route right. 

I don't think i'm hoodwinked by the 'bullshit' of management speak, I genuinely think the path we've gone down is the right one and whilst SOD will inevitably make mistakes I'm willing to give him an extended period of time, like I was with Del for a long time and like I was with Millen. Obviously there has to be a middle ground where results come, but as we found ourselves relegated we have the chance for a proper clean slate. SOD's recruitment has been good? I can't really pick any faults in the permanent incomings, the loans have been needed to fill gaps but hopefully in the long term we won't need to go down that route as much.

The football hasn't been the best in the last few weeks, but we've seen a marked improvement in the results, be it wins, clean sheets, less howlers, less goals conceded. We were playing some decent stuff at the start of the season and we deserved to have won games we didn't but for those howlers... Obviously if you lose you deserve to, but you know what i mean. Now he is focussing on getting the defence right, and from that basis we can build our attacking performances, and he probably should have done that from the get go.  

What's your dissertation on JT?

It's exploring racism in football in the 1980's and the reasons behind the anti-racism movement starting in the sport.

Not belittling his tactics, pointing out that it still appears that far too much long ball stuff is being played, when that is not what is being coached, apparently. Haven't mentioned a single player, but i'm sure even you will allow me a personal opinion about the manager and I haven't insulted him.

Please don't assume that post was directed at you in its entirety, Es. 

Please, I'd actually like to hear it as sometimes you come across a bit Jeremy Paxman.. I don't actually know what your opinion is because most comments seem to come across as digs? Just my opinion of your posts on SOD, but fill me in, What do you think?

Its Saturday, just enjoy yourself.. the dissertation can wait till Monday surely?

Thing is, I've said that every day for the past few months. It's about time I got something done.... 

You must be so insecure Jordan, trying to act superior to everyone else on a football forum.

 

"Mummy ive won another argument on OTIB"

 

You seem like you need this more than me mate so we will just agree to disagree.

Insecure? Nope. I do always find it amusing when people feel they are qualified to judgments on personality based on their obvious expertise... intelligence is quite simple to judge, you're either capable of adding to a discussion or you're not... 

But let's consider the evidence about insecurity. One of us posts behind a pseudonym, the other not. One of us is unable to string a constructive argument together and resorts to childish meme's when their points are utterly destroyed by factual responses.

One is obviously a bit messed up upstairs to be so ******* negative all the time. Perhaps football isn't the sport for you eh?

So jog on, if you can't construct an argument in a debate don't expect others to go soft on you.

Just bored at the moment and killing some time before venturing out

Very good. I'm procrastinating as my dissertation is looking less and less appetising by the minute. 

I am being positive, 5 games unbeaten is important in our current position, but please don't let us delude ourselves we are cured or even that we lose games because we chase them.

Nobody is deluded. This run HAS to continue for a good old while yet. Being at least content with a good result without belittling the tactics, manager, players should be NORMAL surely?

Clever...

 

Wolves 2nd half we were excellent and lost, other games we played well and drew when we deserved 3 points like Vale, MK Dons and Gillingham away.

SVR, It will soon dawn on you that you're attempting to converse with an inferior life-form. It's futile to continue as, simply put, it cannot understand anything.

Time to leave the 'ickle poppet alone.

Like the 20 odd games where people were saying, todays the day 3 points.

I really don't get your problem with positivity.

I'm defending a point away from home and 5 games unbeaten - their keeper got MOTM - they scored a deflected shot.

If we lost 2/3-0 then I'd be agreeing with you, but a point away from home is always decent coming up to two home games.

If the stats speak for themselves - they had 52% possession and we were equal in terms of shots on target so what exactly do the stats "speak"?

Ah, the stats now don't appear to back up the insinuations of the deluded. What next for them then? 

Gutless nothing second halfs do that to people

made it to the Q&A then? nah? that's gutless.

SOD holds a Q&A Thursday night, fans laud him for being so great with fans, no other managers ever done it, fully behind him bla bla bla. We gain a point away from home at a ground we haven't won at for X many years and now everyone is fed up with again....

Boring isn't it?

Bollox, none of those were caused by going for the win all of them were individual mistakes FFS.

Fair point, All I'm saying is we've thrown it away enough this season to not risk it. It would kill confidence. Take a good point and move forward with two home games coming up.

oh come on JT, Coventry perhaps having been caught up in the goal fest and then?

Flint at port vale? Crewe last minute pen? Ranger 87' winner at Swindon. 

That's shite from you...

Although unbeaten in 4 confidence is still low, Get a few more home wins/good performances and then push for wins away if still level late on, Don't want to throw away points in our position

exactly. Another last minute howler could kill all the steady progress. Take the point and move forward with it.

Some people are never happy though. Whining little girls.

no don't sit for a point!!!!!!

How many games have we thrown away going for the win this season?

No idea what everyones problem is, a point away is always a half decent result. 

What are these tactics of what you speak of?

The ones that have us currently unbeaten in 5? or is it no longer just about results?

Bloody hell Esmond. 

Bet reading wouldn't have conceeded that ! sod out !

Chill out, it's not actually that great banter.

What are you trying to say, young man?

Just that we've had a bit of trouble getting some better floodlights and a swap deal for a player can't possibly be 'irregular' can it? 

And, "we may have to sell Killa" SOD. As in, "persuade someone of the merits of" (Killa), as my dictionary describes "sell." Or he'll be just sitting around not playing til next August. He won't want to be doing that, will he?

Perhaps we could swap him for some new floodlights?