Nogbad the Bad

The crowds at AG were noticeably bigger after SO'D's departure. I don't remember ever saying City should appoint Cotterill, and I'm not convinced by his appointment now, but the initial response at least was largely positive and reflected in increased attendances. I don't know how many have left already - some, no doubt - but it struck me as an overwhelming thumbs down to SO'D immediately prior to his departure, and the crowds have certainly seemed larger and livelier since.

Fiale - I have seen SC quite openly being labelled 'a liar' on this forum. You said we want honesty from the club and we got it from SO'D. No problem with that, but I don't see any diminishment of honesty under SC. If he says things that might at the same time ingratiate him to the fans, but MEANS them, what's the problem? As for Del, I was one of his biggest supporters on here and yes, I still believe we would be far better off now had we kept him and got rid of certain players instead at the first opportunity. We've had 4/5 years of misery now and SO'D, and now Cotterill are feeling the resentment and disillusionment of fans built up over many years. It is very difficult for a manager to preach patience when so many supporters are at their wits end at the constant disappointment and failure from the club, particularly when that patience is given but little tangible progress is seen on the pitch. I certainly don't recall anything like this level of abuse for SO'D - certainly not at this stage of his tenure when he was almost being given a free pass by many to oversee relegation. If you thought SO'D had to go due to terrible results and the likely outcome, wouldn't the new manager - whoever he was - by avoiding relegation intrinsically progress the club. even if by dint of stabilising our status and not regressing further? I absolutely agree that Cotterill should be scrutinised and be under extreme pressure to move the club forward - it comes with the job - but he is being pilloried more than any other I can remember at such an early stage. I am not a fan of SC, I don't hate him either. I'm neutral but determined to be supportive rather than look for ways to tear him to shreds. I do object to a manager who is clearly working hard for the club, doing his best, and showing some passion for our plight, being savaged on here before he's had a real chance to show whether he's going to benefit the club or not. And before you say it, I remain convinced SO'D had ample time to show he was not going to do that.

So you've said.. I think to suggest more than 7 out of 10 were turning up is equally ludicrous.

I don't see anything dishonest in what SC has said. I seem to be in the minority (on this thread certainly!) but's that's fine by me - those most disparaging of Cotterill seem to be those most embittered by SO'D's departure. I'm not. I'm very glad he's gone and though I'm far from convinced by Cotterill, it's obviously in our best interests now to support him and at least reserve judgement until we see whether he can keep us up. If you think what I say is shocking I can only say I find the criticism of Cotterill, and everything he says and does, is absolutely mind blowing to me. By what I normally consider to be level headed posters, as well.

I said the 2,500 not turning up was a conservative estimate, and I absolutely stand by that. It's not exactly difficult to look around such an empty ground and make such an estimate, whether you agree with it or not. If you were there during SO'D's final games presumably you accept that a very significant amount of STH's were not attending?

I suspect on this occasion he was so furious and disappointed that his mind was firmly on getting into the dressing room quickly and laying into the players. He did though make a made a point of saying, 'we had a great following here today, a great following, and we let them down big time.'

The different interpretation I spoke of was nothing to do with fans' events - you chose to take a different interpretation of his comments over the sidelining of Fontaine and Kilkenny. He attended these events at least partly out of self interest because it was an opportunity to further justify his thinking, and give him more time when his words and methods were very often not even being reflected in performances, let alone results. He had no interest in building a genuine rapport with the fans when he criticised them, indicated he thought them responsible for not being able to include Kilkenny and Fontaine, or ignored their post match applause as he approached the Atyeo tunnel. SC made a point of praising the fans and sympathised that they had to witness an abysmal performance - what a blustering buffooon! Or maybe the sort of straightforward comments which most fans would appreciate and could help to build a rapport unless, of course, you've decided from day one you detest him. His words didn't sound anything but genuine to me either - SC simply displayed a basic natural empathy with supporters, something which seemed entirely alien to SO'D.

I'll try and keep it short then Kid. SO'D had no interest, imo, in forming a rapport with the fans - 3 examples given in my post above, although you have interpreted one differently. He did though have a strong self interest in taking opportunities - as outlined by you above - to attempt to justify his failing methods with rhetoric, which increasigly fell on deaf ears with many.

Just goes to show how you can twist everything if you've a mind to. Of course a manager should want to form a rapport with the fans - the last one notably had no interest in it - it's good for the club and doesn't follow he's being dishonest, or his words are hollow. You'd surely berate him if he didn't mention the loyal travelling fans or didn't give an honest appraisal of a terrible performance. Yet according to you praising the travelling supporters and saying they were let down is a stick to beat him with? He's clearly in a no win situation with you whatever he says. My position on Cotterill remains the same. I neither particularly like, or dislike him, and will reserve judgement until the end of the season, when my expectations are he'll have retained City's status. Meanwhile I'm quite happy with the way he puts over his views, and content to take his forthright interviews at face value.

So you're criticising him for what he didn't say? I don't see Cotterill as being unique in that respect - I can't remember overt self criticism being evident in post match interviews from any managers. When he says the performance was abysmal, and goes on to say there are no excuses, that's probably about the best you're going to get anywhere. What exactly can the manager do, or say, when he feels he has prepared the team assiduously for a match but they simply don't perform on the day? Being brutally honest about the performance and sympathising with the fans' disappointment and anger seems exactly the right reaction to me.

It's just an honest interview Harry. If you don't like him - which you freely admit you don't - you'll use his straight talking as a means to criticise him. Which is exactly what you've done, with no good reason from what he actually said. Oh, and if the players don't like a few home truths, that's too bad.

Except he was successful at Burnley - at almost 4 years the longest serving manager in the Championship at the time - and certainly at Portsmouth, and kept Forest up by 10 points. Hardly a loser at any of those clubs. As for City, he'll be judged by most on whether he keeps us up or not.

Exactly right. We want straight talking and honesty about our team, and the performance, and as far as I can see that's exactly what we got. He didn't pull any punches and said it exactly as the fans saw it, with no excuses, so it's really hard to see why people are hammering him for that.

It looked like pure frustration and thinly disguised rage to me. Fairly clear the interview followed immediately after a very frank exchange of views in the dressing room. If he's telling the interviewer the performance was abysmal he certainly won't have minced his words with the players just beforehand. A bit of a GJ hand grenade moment by the looks of it and a number of players will have been left in no doubt how unacceptable their performance was - and quite rightly by the sound of it.

Time this went above the Tranmere thread. Much better match thread.

Tough top of the table clash at PNE for ORIENT today.

No there isn't. Talking of Orient always puts me in mind of Cheese and Ernie Hunt. City had a settled squad in the early 70's and hardly ever signed anyone but AD 'swooped' to make the double signing just before we played Orient in December. It put thousands on the gate ( the festive season may have helped but over 19,000 turned up for their joint debut) and the bumper crowd filed out a bit bemused after a dull 0-0.

Didn't have you down as an academic Arn. What subject do you lecture in?

This match thread could still be running beyond tomorrow's Tranmere thread at this rate.

Jinx broken tonight, if there was one. He was so proud of it he couldn't wait to show it on here half done, tell him time it's we saw the finished article. Perhaps he could have 'Flint' added as the finishing touch?

How's the big City tattoo coming on? Haven't had an update for a while.

Fair play Red Ox. Sounds like it was a good performance all round and Cotts. got the team selection and tactics spot on. It sounded great on the radio, must have been a really memorable win to see live.

Flint not really shutting up the critics? Four good games in a row and 2 important goals not enough for some to get behind him then? As I said yesterday Flint will go on to become a very popular City player, mark my words.

Flint taking the goal kicks now - involved in everything!!!