Mr Popodopolous

@ExiledAjax @Hxj You two may have a better idea on this. If a PL club goes into Administration, I know the -9 vs -12 but is there a 2 Year Business Plan etc post Administration too? I know the Football League measures can be rather hardline.

Sceptic in me says looking to rally and either look to kick the administration can down the road aka next season or rally to a point where they may stay up even with -9 more. Either of those feels like gaming the system to a degree.

Maybe I haven't worded it that well. The recent run feels like it has more in common with our tactics under NP than a lot of Millwall at Home to West Brom Away.

It feels like the Authorities are bending over backwards to try and preserve Everton and their financial position in some respects. I genuinely would've appealed as the PL a 2nd deduction of only 2 points as being derisory given thst the threshold missed for a 2nd year on the spin. PSR aside, can a club just exist in a never never world of a takeover process needing more time, more time and on borrowed money just getting loans that may or may not be repaid for a stadium that will be built but isn't it overdue and over budget already

Possibly, the author in the Football League Paper is conflating real time and retrospective. Still think it could be tight for a few clubs, my understanding is that the EFL can review on real time and after the event..the new and more real time Rules also state that a Call-in Review can be made at any time. One that surprised me, Cardiff and their wage bill fall to last year..hmm. Birmingham seem oddly bullish given -£50m in losses across 2021-22 and 2022-23. Still £11m is quite a swing in one year.

Optimist in me says that was somewhat of a transitional phase, see what works what doesn't. Hopefully now he knows that the pressing, intent perhaps set-up that he inherited is the best base and perhaps improve possession and control within that framework. As opposed to what we saw often between January and West Brom Away.

There is IMO an element of chicken and egg. Confidence grows which can improve the performance levels and intent, I think though the first big step was the rapid start v Leicester. That was in stark contrast to the Swansea game and tbh did differ from what we had seen for a while under Manning, pressing early, getting into the opposition- we had quite a few shots in the first 15-20 minutes too, some of without checking back I believe were brought about via turnovers from a medium to high press.

I'll give it a go although perhaps I'm being overly generous to him. Build up, build up steadily yet with a clear strategy, with finances more controlled this time then go for it financially when in the best possible 2 year or so period.

2 strikers up front is rather problematic at this level.ajs above but a back 3 can offer the option at times. That aside, £2m?? You sure? Hit double figures x 2 in a middle third side despite 2 medium term injuries age 21..I believe the service was a bigger issue.

Jon Lansdown has been incompetent ever since he begun pretty much. Or ineffective at minimum. Maybe tonight marks a turning point but whether the penny has dropped with Manning, major red flags about the hierarchy still exist.

Unless the new proposed number 9 is if a definite next level calibre I find this talk of selling, let alone bumping Conway down the pecking order a bit bizarre. We have a striker of some promise age 21, becoming 22 jn August, yes several penalties this season but double figures in his first 2 full seasons, some assists too. Clearly if we get silly money, or even an acceptable bid and he won't sign we have to consider but the idea of bumping him down the pecking order I don't get.

The culture inherited and the financial emergency can supersede some of that. Klose joined halfway in, Vyner of 2021-21 was not, never was the Vyner we see today. Absolutely was not.

Do tend to agree, we have done heavy lifting hopefully SL will now do his bit to improve our chances (so long as not reckless of course). It is a long innings for him, has been bit the Championship moves quickly- medium term it could change again with new proposed/speculated financial Regs but it feels like we are somewhere in the cycle where we should try to retain as many key players as we can and strengthen judiciously, with generous topups in cash flow to help with this. Exactly, if you stand still you can very easily go backwards.

Depends if depth and succession planning or similar. You can't rely on one striker, Conway has had two medium term injuries already after all. Still selling Conway seems foolish IMO. He should only get better really injuries permitting

I'm inclined to think, the Rules maybe changing, we are well within..let's look to keep Conway plus any other important players in contract, add price permitting if we can Twine, try hard to keep James and Williams. Add one or two others across the squad too. Arguably the 3 coming down won't be so strong either. Then it will depend on what SL wants to do in respect of his side of the input but the headroom is there.

Why should we be looking at selling Conway? More upheaval, financially speaking heavy lifting..let's seem to keep him and show a bit of ambition within sensible financials of course.

Factually you are incorrect up to a point. *Luton were miles within compliance at all times. *Bournemouth cheated when easier to do so. You possibly haven't looked in depth but clubs need to submit their next 2 years forecast to the EFL at the end of March of the existing season if they have incurred losses between £x and £y and there is an ongoing monitoring process looking at past, present and future. This couldn't be further removed from Bournemouth whereby it was one year, purely retrospective and there wasn't such a thing as points deductions for FFP. By way of example, clubs by March 31st 2024 need to submit their Forecasts if they lose £15m in 3 years for 2024-25 and 2025-26. The EFL can step in with more restrictive future looking measures again this is new stuff that clubs voted in back in 2021 and 2022. The idea being to prevent breaches before they occur. It genuinely isn't as it was. Nothing like. Wrexham may or may not but a combination of Parachute Payments, their likely income streams and the EFL future looking stuff..they'll need the stars to align and a perfect storm. I see your point on one level but it is far more joined up in our division now.

He was excellent for 2 to 3 months or impressive anyway, output wise but his attitude...well it went down the pan didn't it. 3 Goals and 4 Assists by end of October. Barely anything thereafter. The penalty miss v Burton in March was a particular nadir..

I'd say since 2020, or 2021..we had the big go for it phase under Johnson and Ashton, spent £25m in Additions to Intangible Assets in 2019-20. The Championship is frankly a bit of a financial basketcase, Parachute clubs bot only have a £40-45m advantage in TV money minimum on relegation but a further £22m per PL season in FFP headroom. Not sure what b is total is with debt plus loans but good though it is, it has also been surpassed by others..Shahid Khan is one albeit PL and Parachute cash enables bigger spending potential, Bloom another. Think Bloom was £406m in 15 years. Albeit the Amex and their Training Facilities and other facilities will have cost.

Exactly, Bournemouth as well run.. They cheated when it was far easier to do so, reaped the benefits ever since. Of course that will entail some aspects of being well run but the initial cheating underpinned their next decade financially speaking, combined with a wealthy owner of course...all gives a huge FFP advantage.

Is it a case of increasing his nest egg or is it more that it reduces the amount he needs to put in in respect of cash/equity each year? I'd lean towards the latter. Seems more like that IMO..should we push a bit more bow we have done financial heavy lifting, yeah tbh we should've last year once Scott went but that us quite a different scenario. The other consideration is that the much touted new FFP Regs that are due to come in should include Profit on Disposal of Players towards the relevant cost to Turnover ratio so there is that too.

I'd hope not too many are leaving personally. Agree though a churn and turnover can set a club back, inevitable transition if so.

Bournemouth also cheated on the way up in 2015 under the old Rules when the sanctions and enforcement were weak, certainly if Promoted. Benefited hugely from that.

It's a factor but at the same time, not necessarily IMO. Albeit add in Parachute Payments minus Solidarity Payments and it becomes a huge potential chasm. The rules are harmonised somewhat between the two divisions, see Nottingham Forest. Albeit Bournemouth in the context of the rest of the League and their Upper Loss limit to 2022 and 2023 being £72m after Allowables are a bit of a mystery. Promotion Bonuses not excluded as the Nottingham Forest case proved. Post the Scott sale we definitely could have spent more than we did. PL- 3 Year Rolling Loss limit £105m plus Allowables (1 year £35m). Championship- 3 Year Rolling Loss Limit £39m plus Allowables (1 Year £13m). There was some debt Writeoff as part of takeover but that surely can't offset losses. EFL very much go in bigger on deductions and sanctions. Birmingham..£9m 3 Year Overspend, 7 pts for overspend, 3 for rising losses, 1 back for cooperation. Derby- Well who knows in the end, they failed 3 Periods and the Settlement was 9 Points with a further 3 suspended. Reading- Overspend was at a level whereby the EFL could go for 12 but Settlement was 6 and 6 suspended pending adherence to a Business Plan which they failed in Spring 2023. Think £18-19m in 2 years the overspend. Sheffield Wednesday- Got -12 for an £18-19m 3 Year Overspend but halved on Appeal as they botched Stadium sale timing wise. These clubs also got Embargoes, Business Plans or both in addition to the League pushing for points. EFL stricter 100%. Albeit clubs voted this in.

I used to do a football Accumulator once a week for fun. Obviously I hoped to win but I wasn't gambling to excess or going with major stakes. Nearly did win a few as well ie a few Accumulators but the odd own goal, dodgy decision often did for my chances...got the odd win on lower end bets, but by no means big on it.