Guest Garfunkle Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 i am suprised this has not been mentioned. first of all who is our physio? i no longer have any idea as we seem to have a different one each season. anyway around the 20-25minutes mark bradley orr clears the ball and gets a whack to the head resulting in a distressed fracture of the cheekbone. as far as i can remember he was treated behind the goal for at least 2 minutes? he then goes onto play for another 15-20 minutes before a hull player notices he is a mess and needs treatment, it is only then that he is taken off the pitch. so my worry is what the hell was the physio thinking? could he not tell he was hurt? i am no expert but a physio mistaking a black eye with a distressed fracture of the cheekbone would be similar to a sniffer dog mixing up sugar and cocaine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BITW Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Bradley Orr made the choice to continue, before realising himself he was not able to go on. He didnt want to sit out the final (obviously) and when he gave in to the injury he was aided by the Hull player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 i am suprised this has not been mentioned. first of all who is our physio? i no longer have any idea as we seem to have a different one each season. anyway around the 20-25minutes mark bradley orr clears the ball and gets a whack to the head resulting in a distressed fracture of the cheekbone. as far as i can remember he was treated behind the goal for at least 2 minutes? he then goes onto play for another 15-20 minutes before a hull player notices he is a mess and needs treatment, it is only then that he is taken off the pitch. so my worry is what the hell was the physio thinking? could he not tell he was hurt? i am no expert but a physio mistaking a black eye with a distressed fracture of the cheekbone would be similar to a sniffer dog mixing up sugar and cocaine!! Wasn't the first incident seperate from the 2nd? But i was up in the gods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shane Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I mentioned that earlier in the week. In my opinion that decision more than any other cost us the game. It was obvious to everyone who understands football Orr wasn't right. Carey kept shouting at him and getting no response and attack wise he's normally a great option but at wembley he couldn't get involved. Shame really but the doctor and physio really did mess up big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdgifford64 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Wasn't the first incident seperate from the 2nd? But i was up in the gods There was no 2nd `incident`. All the damage occurred in the clash with Barmby. I have no medical qualifications so i`m in no posn to judge the actions of the physio, however we shouldn`t be surprised if Bradley was determined to play on. Anyway, before people start calling a proffesionals judgement into question, be sure you know what you`re talking about. I`d be quite happy to see this thread locked up and thrown away. PDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Garfunkle Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Wasn't the first incident seperate from the 2nd? But i was up in the gods no it wasnt. its just that windass seemed to notice what the physion couldnt and that is that orr couldnt continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel92 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 John Terry also had the same injury a few years ago agaisnt Fulham. (I think) He was injured mid-way through the first half, but wasnt replaced until half time.... Mabey its just a difficult injury to spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartolona Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Mabey its just a difficult injury to spot Did you see the picture of his face in the paper as Wind-ass shot whistled past his head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel92 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Did you see the picture of his face in the paper as Wind-ass shot whistled past his head? No I didnt, mabey I'm wrong, just trying to think of reasons how such a bad injury could be missed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Enormous Turnip Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Did you see the picture of his face in the paper as Wind-ass shot whistled past his head? Yeah I saw that, and i dread to think what damage might have been done had Bradley got his head to it... :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swansea_Red Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I would imagine it is a hard injury to spot immediately, with swelling taking a few minutes to appear and so on. Remember that Bradley was on the opposite side to the dugouts so once he went back on the physio and club staff would have done well to spot any further problems. He said himself in the interview on the OS a couple of days back that he wanted to carry on, did so and it wasn't until 15-20 mins later he realised the extent of the injury and pain and couldn't continue which is when Windass helped him sit down and called the docs n ref over. Don't blame the club staff, it was Bradleys choice, and I would have made the same choice as him. If the club staff had thought it was so bad they wouldn't have let him continue, but it is hard to spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghornred Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Yeah I saw that, and i dread to think what damage might have been done had Bradley got his head to it... :noexpression: Boy I wish that he had got his head to it then he may have stopped the goal and got taken off earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Lad Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 If Bradly wanted to play on then I think it was the right decision to play on. Bradley appears to have said himself that he wanted to play on, and it would be poor management surely to doubt his judgement. When Bradly realised he couldnt play on, he went off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shane Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 If Bradly wanted to play on then I think it was the right decision to play on. Bradley appears to have said himself that he wanted to play on, and it would be poor management surely to doubt his judgement. When Bradly realised he couldnt play on, he went off. This isn't a very educated statement. He was treated for quite a few minutes after the injury, he is it clear to anyone who has played the game wasn't at the races after the injury and the doctor or physio should have been keeping a close eye on him for the next 10-15 minutes afterwards. Players do NOT decide if the are fit to play on, that is the role of the Dc or Physio. Questions should be asked, maybe they were caught up in the occasion but this should not have been missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Lad Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 This isn't a very educated statement. He was treated for quite a few minutes after the injury, he is it clear to anyone who has played the game wasn't at the races after the injury and the doctor or physio should have been keeping a close eye on him for the next 10-15 minutes afterwards. Players do NOT decide if the are fit to play on, that is the role of the Dc or Physio. Questions should be asked, maybe they were caught up in the occasion but this should not have been missed. Players do decide (to an extent) weather they play or not. Look at McCombe, he diddnt think he would make it so he ruled himself out. If Bradley diddnt think he could make it he would have done the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 It's not clear cut with head injuries and concussion. Often someone can appear to be fine and start exhibiting symptoms hours later. That's why they always keep you in over night at hospital if you go in with a head injury whether you seem fine or not. It's also rarely possible to diagnose a fracture around the head without an x-ray, it's not like a broken limb where it's obvious. Apparently Brad appeared fine (yeah he looked off the pace but most people would just think he needs to run it off) and didn't have symptoms and then he started chatting b***ocks 15 minutes later - pretty much hallucinating. That's when he went off. How often do you see players taken off as a precaution in potentially the biggest game of their career? I'm sure if you ask the player he would say it was the right thing to let him try and carry on. The physio staff feel probably bad enough about it as it is and I very much doubt there was more they could have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Zeppelin Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 This isn't a very educated statement. He was treated for quite a few minutes after the injury, he is it clear to anyone who has played the game wasn't at the races after the injury and the doctor or physio should have been keeping a close eye on him for the next 10-15 minutes afterwards. Players do NOT decide if the are fit to play on, that is the role of the Dc or Physio. Questions should be asked, maybe they were caught up in the occasion but this should not have been missed. Maybe you are both right. Perhaps it was a case of 'Ok Brad, you are alright to carry on with regard to the injury, but are you feeling too concussed to play?' Then Orr says he's fine to continue, but after a few minutes playing he is too concussed to carry on. If 'ifs and buts' were candy nuts etc etc, I trust our physio's judgement and GJ's judgement of the physio. After all he fired a physio over Brooker's fitness last year, but didn't this one nurse Brooker back to first-team action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 It's not clear cut with head injuries and concussion. Often someone can appear to be fine and start exhibiting symptoms hours later. That's why they always keep you in over night at hospital if you go in with a head injury whether you seem fine or not. It's also rarely possible to diagnose a fracture around the head without an x-ray, it's not like a broken limb where it's obvious. Apparently Brad appeared fine (yeah he looked off the pace but most people would just think he needs to run it off) and didn't have symptoms and then he started chatting b***ocks 15 minutes later - pretty much hallucinating. That's when he went off. How often do you see players taken off as a precaution in potentially the biggest game of their career? I'm sure if you ask the player he would say it was the right thing to let him try and carry on. The physio staff feel probably bad enough about it as it is and I very much doubt there was more they could have done. Exactly. The physio did exactly the right thing in realising it was quite a bad bang to the head and radioing for the club doctor to come over and take a look at him. The doctor assessed him and, having spoken to Bradley, decided he was lucid and happy to go back on. If you've got a player who looks ok, other than a superficial bump, who's seemingly not concussed and who is keen to get back on the pitch, I don't think anyone would make a different decision. The concussion and swelling were clearly delayed and as soon as Windass realised he wasn't right, he was taken off. I was a little surprised that nobody stayed on the touchline near to him to make sure he was ok, but they are the ones that had close contact with him and clearly felt he was ok. They wouldn't have let him back on had there been any indication as to the seriousness of the injury, so it's fair to assume it wasn't immediately obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Players do decide (to an extent) weather they play or not. Look at McCombe, he diddnt think he would make it so he ruled himself out. If Bradley diddnt think he could make it he would have done the same. McCombe was given till the morning of the game to stop being sick/shitting himself. Nothing to do with his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Zeppelin Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 McCombe was given till the morning of the game to stop being sick/shitting himself. Nothing to do with his decision. Actually, he was quoted as saying , "As heartbreaking as it was, in the best interests of the team I had to rule myself out. If I had played, it would have been for selfish reasons." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Actually, he was quoted as saying , "As heartbreaking as it was, in the best interests of the team I had to rule myself out. If I had played, it would have been for selfish reasons." Regardless, the club doctor gave him a period of time to recover by which he didnt make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Regardless, the club doctor gave him a period of time to recover by which he didnt make. Yes, based on the information the player provided. He could have lied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Yes, based on the information the player provided. He could have lied. Could have been tricky to hide on the pitch, in worst case circumstances... :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westoncider Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Well as we have a new physio nearly every season why not appoint Dean Windass as it? He was the one who helped Orr on the pitch and the one with the common sense to sit him down as he ws clearly not right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I think it's wrong to keep this topic over again and it has been said before. I don't think for a second think it's was all orr's fault of the goal so don't say the whole if he come off early rubbish. I think if he was on the left of defence the mangement and physio would of noticed easily and I'm sure the physio was watching Orr although can it be easy there is no dugout they had to watch form the stand! No I don't blame the physio that Orr wanted to carry on even though he probaly knew he was off the pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectator Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Regardless, the club doctor gave him a period of time to recover by which he didnt make. Put yourself in Orr's position, adrenalin pumping ,bit dazed, biggest game of your life so far.........you ain't going anywhere but carrying on. Players on the bench said you could see something was wrong, when Orr played the ball and simply didn't run after playing it......simply not him. I thought it was just a cut over the eye initially, and later the area had swollen considerably, so i guess it's harsh to criticise Physio and Doctor. If he'd come out after half time(had he lasted that long) then yes, blame them. Trouble is, nothing's going to change the result now, so let's crack on next season and mount a better challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Put yourself in Orr's position, adrenalin pumping ,bit dazed, biggest game of your life so far.........you ain't going anywhere but carrying on. Players on the bench said you could see something was wrong, when Orr played the ball and simply didn't run after playing it......simply not him. I thought it was just a cut over the eye initially, and later the area had swollen considerably, so i guess it's harsh to criticise Physio and Doctor. If he'd come out after half time(had he lasted that long) then yes, blame them. Trouble is, nothing's going to change the result now, so let's crack on next season and mount a better challenge. I'm talking about McCombe mate. Have no quabbles with the physio team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectator Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'm talking about McCombe mate. Have no quabbles with the physio team. Sorry, watching Britains got Talent at the same time, missed your point completely. Wouldn't mind Escala as our back four ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Sorry, watching Britains got Talent at the same time, missed your point completely. Wouldn't mind Escala as our back four ! That tall blonde is the sex. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectator Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 That tall blonde is the sex. Awesome. Definitely chuck Carey out for her, don't care how good or committed he is !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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