Almondsbury_red Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I don't think building a 'unique' stadium would neccessarily cost the earth. If you want to know how Arsenal afforded their's then go and take a look at where Highbury used to be and also their ticket prices! I think new stadia in this country are improving...both Hull and Coventry have unique features and bowls like St mary's and Leicester's crisp bowl hopefully are a thing of the past. We also have the bloke who helped design Wembley advising us... We've got time on our side and a nice plot of land to build on without major planning restriction so let's go for it personally i didn't like wembley. thought it was another bowl and the noise didn't carry. :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Superb survey by the ST. Many congratulations to all who were involved with its inception. The challenge now is to make the Club listen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff65 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Cardiff City and how can they afford it - Cardiff City Council are paying 70% of cost of the stadium. Congratulations to the Supporters Trust in all aspects of this report - I do have a fear that the architect is not a football fan and is not a city fan and therefore wouldn't have a clue of what a stadium should be like and come up with what they think it should be like - this report completely articulates fans views and if they do a shoddy job after that report they should hang their heads in shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 personally i didn't like wembley. thought it was another bowl and the noise didn't carry. :noexpression: Technically Wembley is a bowl stadium and so is the Emirates. In fact the Emirates is basically a mini Wembley. I have no great problem with a bowl stadium, it can still have unique features and creates the best atmosphere as the corners are filled in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I do have a fear that the architect is not a football fan and is not a city fan and therefore wouldn't have a clue of what a stadium should be like and come up with what they think it should be like The architect currently advising is a City fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG@BS3 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Fantastic work - well done to all those involved. Interesting to read the comments made and some brilliant images of what the stadium could look like. These are exciting times for the club and the fans - keep the belief.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 personally i didn't like wembley. thought it was another bowl and the noise didn't carry. :noexpression: I fully agree mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcas1 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I assume you read the Trusts report ? The answers are in there and the dream is that the club will take note of the report and listen to the supporters as far as is reasonably practical. You're making some sort of quantum leap by suggesting that if we don't accept a standard lego bowl stadium then we are saying we have to stay at the Gate. Anyway, this is taking the topic off course - the bottom line is that the majority disagree with you as per the report. You clearly have not read what I wrote. I have not disagreed anywhere with the trust's report. I am not saying I want to have a lego bowl. I am saying look at the facts (i.e other stadiums), be realistic about what we can expect, so when we see the plans there are not grumbles from everyside about the design and how the fans have been ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I'm not being funny, but what is the difference between a bowl stadium with seperate stands inside and a bowl stadium with seating all the way around? Separate stands seem to give fans more of a feeling of identity. Don't know why but that seems to be the case. Maybe it's just human psychology - Where did you sit at Wembley? Block 978. Where do you sit at Ashton gate? In the Wedlock stand. Which feels more like home? Also, bowl stadiums often have bigger gaps between the fans and the pitch due to their shape. http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26sa%3DN They both look shit to me. Too uniform. I'm not saying we should have a bowl stadium, I am simply saying that we have to face facts. Look at what other clubs around us have done, Southampton, Leicester, Coventry, Stoke etc. All the same Face what facts? None of us have any really, this survey is about telling the club what the fans prefer. They'll have to do the sums and if it's so much cheaper maybe we'll end up with a bowl - I hope not. I don't see why it's cheaper anyway. I thought the main reason for a bowl was actually to do with cramming as many seats as possible into as low a roof line as possible. Can't see that being an issue we have to care about given the location of the site. I believe the down side from a cost point of view is that bowls are much more expensive to extend - and if we want in for the world cup bid that may be a factor. I suggest if you don't want a stadium like that then you start calling for us to stay at the gate, because your living in a dream world if you think ours will much more individual than any of those. Sounds like a massive exaggeration to me but if everyone adopts such a defeatist attitude then of course we will end up with a soulless flat pack stadium. All we as fans can do is tell the club loud and clear what we want and this survey does just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 It's an excellent and valuable piece of work which is being taken seriously by the club. I hope so, after all, its being built for us. I'm fairly certain the club are thinking loong and hard about this build, the persuasion to build for profit will be a powerful one, money grabbing investors will demand the biggest return with little regard for the 'fans experience', only obscene corporate pandering. Have you ever seen how battery hens are kept?, Do you think the same profit driven people will be signing off the £2m checks to sound recording companys to make mock build of the new stadiums potential acoustics variables? These are the people who could potentially screw it. They laugh at your suggestions, and mock you as an 8 yr old boy advising his dad in picking a new shiny car. where is the money comming from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Nice report but regarding the rake of the stands ''don't go too steep'' One thing jumps out is fans wanting a ground with excellent acoustics [atmosphere] and having steep stands. The two rarely co exist and steep stands generally have very poor acoustics. Recall the best atmospheres last season and worst then think about the designs of the stands. I think here the original question was far too uncertain as a steep stand to me is approaching the illegal rake of 34 degress. Anybody who has experienced stands [Millwall/Wigan] of that gradient would probably think a bit differently. A shallow stand is Liverpools Kop! Safe standing (bouncing) is going to become a reality in this country as the football licensing authoritys case against is unravelling but building steep stands will probably rule out our club for ever. Its a massive piece of work by the Supporters trust and i hope the trust and fans are involved further particuarly around the topic of acoustics. The best sound engineers out there are fans and their expertise comes free of charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderMeUp Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Steep stands are horrible, you may be closer to the pitch but feel like your going to fall onto it when you stand up! The East End is pretty shallow and has by far the best atmosphere at the Gate, also the KOP at liverpool is not very steep. I think to get the atmopshere and people bouncing then steep stands are not the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff65 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 The architect currently advising is a City fan. Thank goodness for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcas1 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Separate stands seem to give fans more of a feeling of identity. Don't know why but that seems to be the case. Maybe it's just human psychology - Where did you sit at Wembley? Block 978. Where do you sit at Ashton gate? In the Wedlock stand. Which feels more like home? Also, bowl stadiums often have bigger gaps between the fans and the pitch due to their shape. They both look shit to me. Too uniform. Face what facts? None of us have any really, this survey is about telling the club what the fans prefer. They'll have to do the sums and if it's so much cheaper maybe we'll end up with a bowl - I hope not. I don't see why it's cheaper anyway. I thought the main reason for a bowl was actually to do with cramming as many seats as possible into as low a roof line as possible. Can't see that being an issue we have to care about given the location of the site. I believe the down side from a cost point of view is that bowls are much more expensive to extend - and if we want in for the world cup bid that may be a factor. Sounds like a massive exaggeration to me but if everyone adopts such a defeatist attitude then of course we will end up with a soulless flat pack stadium. All we as fans can do is tell the club loud and clear what we want and this survey does just that. Defeatest, well lets just wait and see the plans, this discussion is academic anyway until the plans are released. From what I have also heard from a client in planning and property in Bristol the plans have been hitting some big snags and the process is not running as smoothly forward as the club had hoped, hence the lack of news. Anyhow, I am hoping that I have to stand corrected on both of my points , I want a great stadium for our great club as much as everyone else. Well done The Trust again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 In a project of this size and complexity, unforeseen and major snagging points will emerge and need to be overcome, so it shouldn't be a surprise. I am sure that SL will have an A-team assembled to help navigate around such obstacles as and when they arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DanC Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 That stadium is similar in design to the one put forward by the Trust (drawn up by OneCity) in that it has the appearance of a bowl from the outside but has distinct separate stands internally.http://www.cardiffcitystadium.co.uk/plans/Z-A.jpg Looks like a bowl to me. OneCity's design has a anfield type of feel for it and 4 distinct stands. Cardiff's certainly doesn't feel like that to me. Ok it's slightly better than the walkers etc but still it's a bowl to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Nice report but regarding the rake of the stands ''don't go too steep'' One thing jumps out is fans wanting a ground with excellent acoustics [atmosphere] and having steep stands. The two rarely co exist and steep stands generally have very poor acoustics. Recall the best atmospheres last season and worst then think about the designs of the stands. I think here the original question was far too uncertain as a steep stand to me is approaching the illegal rake of 34 degress. Anybody who has experienced stands [Millwall/Wigan] of that gradient would probably think a bit differently. A shallow stand is Liverpools Kop! Borussia Dortmund's stadium has extremely steep stands and the atmosphere doesn't seem to suffer. That's with safe standing as well. Ideally I would prefer a bottom tier that's shallow and then steep gradients for the upper tiers, like Arsenal/Wembley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephjnr Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 All new stadiums are soulless as they have no history or memories behind them I don't think anyone could name a newly built stadium that has 'soul' How about burying someone under the goalmouth, like Jimmy Hoffa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Borussia Dortmund's stadium has extremely steep stands and the atmosphere doesn't seem to suffer. That's with safe standing as well. Ideally I would prefer a bottom tier that's shallow and then steep gradients for the upper tiers, like Arsenal/Wembley. true, but they have different laws over there which let them pretty much do as they please in the standing sense, with steep stands in England stewards will be on your case every minute they can if your stood up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ferret Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Borussia Dortmund have one of the most amazing looking stadiums in football. The stands are steep and the atmos is amazing. I never been but my mate has and says its a mad experience - if we could get anything even approaching that I would be happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Borussia Dortmund have one of the most amazing looking stadiums in football. The stands are steep and the atmos is amazing. I never been but my mate has and says its a mad experience - if we could get anything even approaching that I would be happy! I agree about Dortmund and their atmosphere but you need to remember that their laws in the ground allow it ie: flares, standing, unreserved, megaphones to name but a few things they are allowed to use, they can do in germany as fans used to be allowed to do on terraces back in the 70's and 80's (that does not mean fighting) but they get a free role in creating an atmosphere their way without a steward getting in your face telling you to stop farting at every moment and they are allowed to stand plus safe standing allows it better in steep stands, i'd like to see us go for what is in the designs but behined the goal have a kop style home end and just build the rest of the ground around it. I would love our club to aspire to what if going on in the pictures below if we are allowed but not as steep... NOTE; FENCES... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crasul19 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 personally i didn't like wembley. thought it was another bowl and the noise didn't carry. :noexpression: Agreed....funnily enough! The noise didnt carry, just escaped straight out the roof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 How about burying someone under the goalmouth, like Jimmy Hoffa? Ah, good stadia based knowledge. I salute you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted June 5, 2008 Author SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Borussia Dortmund have one of the most amazing looking stadiums in football. The stands are steep and the atmos is amazing. I never been but my mate has and says its a mad experience - if we could get anything even approaching that I would be happy! Yep, been there a couple of times - a great stadium ... though you have to bear in mind that it's over the twice the size of what City will be looking at (capacity is 84,000, with 25,000 on the home end terrace alone). However, the angle of the home end does seem to counteract the argument that a shallow rake enhances acoustics. I'm no acoustics engineer, but dare I say that the angle of the roof is possibly more important ... as can be seen in the photos of the Dortmund stadium in this thread, the roof over their kop slopes down slightly towards the pitch. As for whether standing will ever be allowed in this country in relatively steep areas, I don't see that being an issue as long as what fans campaign for are safe standing areas with a waist high barrier along every single row, e.g.: The law says that all stadia in the top two divisions have to be fitted 100% with seats. Ground regulations drawn up in conjunction with local councils (not the law) state that fans have to sit. I can't see any English council for many years ever granting a safety certificate to a club in the top two divisions wanting to put in open terracing at their ground, but it is not hard to imagine that even health and safety officials might regard it as safer for fans to stand behind seats like those pictured above than to stand as at present - in contravention of ground regulations - behind low-backed seats offering them no support if they topple forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 To change a stand at later date to safe stading would be hideously expensive. A steep stand would require a lot of work and in comparison a stand with a lower gradient would require less. Safe standing does per seat cost more although you can get more fans in to recoup the money. Steep stands normally have higher roofs which limits their abilty to create noise. Lower the roof and gradient of the stand and the noise level will improve. Widen the gap between seats and roof and the sound decreases. This is reason why its easier to creat a din at Palace than Leicester. Of course this does not apply to Borrussia Dortmund in the same manner but City there could get their average gate behind that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.