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[karnataka]

John Barnes managed Celtic 1999-2000 and wasn't very good, hence his very short managerial career.

[double-trouble]

I don't think ive ever heard Ince say that?

There is a simple reason why there are not enough black managers, hardly any black players seem to want to go into manegement for whatever reason.

If you look at Ian wright jon barnes etc a lot of this guys if they would have choosen to be a manager and got the correct badges etc probably would have had the same chances as white managers but for what ever reason they have not decided to go down the road of management.

But what is that reason and why do individuals believe that the colour of skin is relevant to any position gained ?

We never said that Sven Goran Erikson was the first white foreign England manager or that Fabio is the second so why would the comment be made that Paul Ince could be at some stage the first black England manager ?

The next post gives John Barnes as ex Celtic manager which I can remember although for a short time only alongwith a few others at the time I think when Celtic were having a few problems at the helm , me thinks Dalglish had a go as well .

Surprising that Barnes was one of the ex players from the last 10-15 years that I would never have thought of as going into management as he always came across as to nice , never having a bad word of anyone and not being strong enough to deal with the rigours associated with player management ( like Mark Bright and Garth Crooks as well ) .

Now Ian Wright me thinks is just the opposite and one you mention , and I believe could have done well and gone far ( dare I say in jest the first black England manager , but once again why would the colour of Ian's skin make a difference) .

He has the passion and fire that seems to be missing in abundance now in all walks of life in this country and would of bought these qualities to the managerial table wherever that may have been and through the players on the pitch .

I think Viv Anderson has filled a couple of managers positions over the years alongwith Chris Kamara and Liam Rosenior .

Just a couple of black football managers that come to mind and sure there are quite a few more that a tired mind is whirling around .

[double-trouble]

But what is that reason and why do individuals believe that the colour of skin is relevant to any position gained ?

We never said that Sven Goran Erikson was the first white foreign England manager or that Fabio is the second so why would the comment be made that Paul Ince could be at some stage the first black England manager ?

The next post gives John Barnes as ex Celtic manager which I can remember although for a short time only alongwith a few others at the time I think when Celtic were having a few problems at the helm , me thinks Dalglish had a go as well .

Surprising that Barnes was one of the ex players from the last 10-15 years that I would never have thought of as going into management as he always came across as to nice , never having a bad word of anyone and not being strong enough to deal with the rigours associated with player management ( like Mark Bright and Garth Crooks as well ) .

Now Ian Wright me thinks is just the opposite and one you mention , and I believe could have done well and gone far ( dare I say in jest the first black England manager , but once again why would the colour of Ian's skin make a difference) .

He has the passion and fire that seems to be missing in abundance now in all walks of life in this country and would of bought these qualities to the managerial table wherever that may have been and through the players on the pitch .

I think Viv Anderson has filled a couple of managers positions over the years alongwith Chris Kamara and Liam Rosenior .

Just a couple of black football managers that come to mind and sure there are quite a few more that a tired mind is whirling around .

Funny how when you try to put names down on a topic/ post you struggle to come up with any then when you finish and log off you remember some .

Not sure if these were all black England players but hey ho here goes .

Big Cyrille Regis me thinks yes

Luther Blisset me thinks yes

Dion Dublin me not so sure

Stan Colleymore Think he had a couple of games ?

Carlton Palmer Sadly yes

John Salako Think he did ?

Des Walker Yes

Mark Walters Yes but a bit hit and miss for club and country ( always in the masters doing well )

Don ' t think any went into management ( to be proved differently by someone ) but are always presenting some game or other on the television .

Why ? because their nice and camera friendly . If I was to make one statement about them all it would be to say they were nice people and not strong enough for management which is surprising when you think of the amount of caps and experience some of them have and not just in this country .

[bully]

I don't think ive ever heard Ince say that?

There is a simple reason why there are not enough black managers, hardly any black players seem to want to go into manegement for whatever reason.

If you look at Ian wright jon barnes etc a lot of this guys if they would have choosen to be a manager and got the correct badges etc probably would have had the same chances as white managers but for what ever reason they have not decided to go down the road of management.

It was good old Leroy Rosenior who came up with the glass ceiling crap about black managers - anyway, Paul Ince is mixed race isn't he, so why refer to people like him, Rio Ferdinand etc etc etc as black?

Just continues to differentiate people who were born here and are as English as anyone - and Rosenior is a major cuplrit in that regard .

[bully]

Well, he is the main scout and looks for potential transfer targets and then informs GJ.

Just 2 examples are Adriano Basso and Marvin Elliot

Thanks - I know what a scout does, just wasn't sure who he was responsible for getting through the door.

Marvin was of interest to others , but on the strength of Basso alone, he's alright by me.

[double-trouble]

Funny how when you try to put names down on a topic/ post you struggle to come up with any then when you finish and log off you remember some .

Not sure if these were all black England players but hey ho here goes .

Big Cyrille Regis me thinks yes

Luther Blisset me thinks yes

Dion Dublin me not so sure

Stan Colleymore Think he had a couple of games ?

Carlton Palmer Sadly yes

John Salako Think he did ?

Des Walker Yes

Mark Walters Yes but a bit hit and miss for club and country ( always in the masters doing well )

Don ' t think any went into management ( to be proved differently by someone ) but are always presenting some game or other on the television .

Why ? because their nice and camera friendly . If I was to make one statement about them all it would be to say they were nice people and not strong enough for management which is surprising when you think of the amount of caps and experience some of them have and not just in this country .

Well I never Dion was on Soccer A.M this morning and backs up the piece I said about being a nice bloke . Most who have seen him on the box on shows would say the same . It was mentioned that he has'nt got any F.A badges as well . I still can't see the ' colour of a manager / coach / no. 2 ' having anything to do with being a role model for future managers , coaches etc...

If you want to go into that role after the game there seems to be more opportunities now than ever before through the F.A . for everyone to obtain the credentials via the appropriate training .

Keith Millen an unsung hero at the Gate and would hope he has the personality , courage , strength etc.. to take the job on if ever he had the opportunity .

I think thats where clubs often fall short nowadays , they need to build from within over a period of many years .

[Red_Mat]

That is excatly the reason I detest Paul Ince. He thinks the world owes him a favour because he's black. He often says the lack of black managers is a form of racism and discrimination. Boll*cks!

The reasons there arent many black managers is because they are a MINORITY group or just not good enough. People who falsly accuse people of rasicam is disgusting

Actually, to be fair, I simply mentioned it in passing, as an aside. I made no big deal out of it. Just put it forward in much the same way as we said Viv Anderson was the first black manager to play for England, and Paul Ince was the first black captain of England. I was making no other point than that. It was really just a point of interest.

I was really talking about Paul Ince's situation as being 'fast-tracked' to the Premier League (partly because of his Premier League experience) in relation to GJ, which is what this thread is about.

There was no big deal about racism. In fact, the people who seem to have a big issue with race appear to be the ones who later on this thread posted to say that black managers just haven't been good enough, should get their badges, should shut up and stop moaning, get on with it, etc, etc.

However, if people want to get into a debate there have been hundreds of black professional footballers over the last 30 years in this country. I can't think of more than about half a dozen managers in that time. However, seeing as the match against Andorra the other night provided an England team with more black England players than white, I'm sure we'll see some more black managers coming through in the next few years, won't we?

[Redhyde]

I'm sure we'll see some more black managers coming through in the next few years, won't we?

*Racial stereotype alert* Tend to come from poorer areas..tend to be less well educated because of that..

Not too sure there are many at least int he top flight of this country black managerial candidates whereas i see lots of white players you could see going on and doing well at it. + footballers of this generation are the first who don't need to work ever again after their careers finish.

Don't think the balance will change.

[Red_Mat]

*Racial stereotype alert* Tend to come from poorer areas..tend to be less well educated because of that..

Not too sure there are many at least int he top flight of this country black managerial candidates whereas i see lots of white players you could see going on and doing well at it. + footballers of this generation are the first who don't need to work ever again after their careers finish.

Don't think the balance will change.

Ha, it is a bit of a stereotype that black players tend to come from poorer areas, but there are truths to stereotypes. However, I'd have to say footballers in general come from poorer backgrounds! Beckham, Carragher, Gerrard, Terry, Rooney, Bentley, and generations of white footballers that came before them probably didn't come from more middle-class backgrounds.

And let's be honest, can you name any well-educated managers from England...?! Education is not a guarantee of becoming a football manager.

[downendcity]

Ha, it is a bit of a stereotype that black players tend to come from poorer areas, but there are truths to stereotypes. However, I'd have to say footballers in general come from poorer backgrounds! Beckham, Carragher, Gerrard, Terry, Rooney, Bentley, and generations of white footballers that came before them probably didn't come from more middle-class backgrounds.

And let's be honest, can you name any well-educated managers from England...?! Education is not a guarantee of becoming a football manager.

Steve Copple is well educated. If I remember correctly he was doing a degree at Liverpool Uni when he was transferred from Tranmere to Man U ( Economics I think)

Joey Barton must be well educated because he also has letters after his name. Joey Barton A.S.B.O., H.M.P.

[Henry]

Actually, to be fair, I simply mentioned it in passing, as an aside. I made no big deal out of it. Just put it forward in much the same way as we said Viv Anderson was the first black manager to play for England, and Paul Ince was the first black captain of England. I was making no other point than that. It was really just a point of interest.

I was really talking about Paul Ince's situation as being 'fast-tracked' to the Premier League (partly because of his Premier League experience) in relation to GJ, which is what this thread is about.

There was no big deal about racism. In fact, the people who seem to have a big issue with race appear to be the ones who later on this thread posted to say that black managers just haven't been good enough, should get their badges, should shut up and stop moaning, get on with it, etc, etc.

However, if people want to get into a debate there have been hundreds of black professional footballers over the last 30 years in this country. I can't think of more than about half a dozen managers in that time. However, seeing as the match against Andorra the other night provided an England team with more black England players than white, I'm sure we'll see some more black managers coming through in the next few years, won't we?

Sorry wasnt having a dig at you, just something I felt like mentioning about Ince.

[double-trouble]

*Racial stereotype alert* Tend to come from poorer areas..tend to be less well educated because of that..

Not too sure there are many at least int he top flight of this country black managerial candidates whereas i see lots of white players you could see going on and doing well at it. + footballers of this generation are the first who don't need to work ever again after their careers finish.

Don't think the balance will change.

There are many current players that could possibly move on into management if they have the right skills and attitude . Terry , Gerrard , Lampard ???

There are as many that possibly would not , Beckham , Sol Cambell , Crouch , Heskey , Robinson , Defoe and maybe Scholes .

Sadly the more I think of key players in the prem . at the moment , the harder it is to come by englishmen that possibly could / could not take on a top management job , or even a no . 2 role which is where the initial thread was started .

Sadly with fewer home grown players coming through the acadamies or even being picked up from the smaller league clubs at an early age , I feel they maybe lost early from the game before giving a real chance to make it in the game .

The mass arrival of ' foreign ' players over the last 10 years has started to reach further down into the lower leagues where youngsters are stifled from progression . To a degree you can see it happening at the City academy where good kids for whatever reason may never reach the first team .

We have discussed on various threads the amount of personel involved in ' rightly or wrongly ' running the first team and reserves at a prem / CCC club . There are many of these positions that can be filled and some ex - players are now going into physio , fitness etc...

Also with the Prem clubs often looking abroad for management positions to be filled and not giving the Paul Ince's of this world a chance ( even though I think it is possibly to early for him ) , we may see english names as managers few and far between in time .

You make a good point about the financial gains of players today . Investments they make outside the game would inhibit their involvement as a manager or coach in the future .

Keith Millen lets treasure him and for what he gives the squad , as he maybe in our top job one day .

[Redhyde]

Beckham will because he can't stay out of the limelight. Definite England manager and when that happens I'll start being anyone but England. I don't think the Terry's and Gerrards will. Carragher's a good shout and then David James is someone i think would be good either as a pundit or manager. Garry Neville Manchester United manager, can't wait.

I can't think of anyone except David James as a potential management type of all the black English players in the Prem. Well the ones closer to going into it, who knows what some of the kids are like.

Dele seems like someone who would be good. He's a great pro at an older age. Be good if someone asked him what he's going to do after although possibly insulting while he's doing the business for us.

[double-trouble]

Beckham will because he can't stay out of the limelight. Definite England manager and when that happens I'll start being anyone but England. I don't think the Terry's and Gerrards will. Carragher's a good shout and then David James is someone i think would be good either as a pundit or manager. Garry Neville Manchester United manager, can't wait.

I can't think of anyone except David James as a potential management type of all the black English players in the Prem. Well the ones closer to going into it, who knows what some of the kids are like.

Dele seems like someone who would be good. He's a great pro at an older age. Be good if someone asked him what he's going to do after although possibly insulting while he's doing the business for us.

Beckham - the film star of the future ( and the bird that hangs on to his coat tail )

I believe he's over the pond for his and her future , goodbye BLIGHTY .

Bloody good riddance to the both of them . until they bomb them out for the next media hungry has been's .

Now Mr James of the mouth . I posted at times of my admiration of his game as he has matured .

Talks a lot of sense and seems respected by his peers .

Yes , good shout and certainly a possible candidate

[Henry]

Beckham will because he can't stay out of the limelight. Definite England manager and when that happens I'll start being anyone but England. I don't think the Terry's and Gerrards will. Carragher's a good shout and then David James is someone i think would be good either as a pundit or manager. Garry Neville Manchester United manager, can't wait.

I can't think of anyone except David James as a potential management type of all the black English players in the Prem. Well the ones closer to going into it, who knows what some of the kids are like.

Dele seems like someone who would be good. He's a great pro at an older age. Be good if someone asked him what he's going to do after although possibly insulting while he's doing the business for us.

Beckham has repeatedly said many times he will not become a manager or a coach.

[lotusman]

I think one should have a healthy attitude towards any Premier League manager whether seasoned such as a Harry Redknapp or a junior such as Paul Ince.Albeit begrudgingly I even have to include Pulis in this category.

Comparisons of individuals are subjective but in any Premier League appointment be very much assured that the decision is reached with a a wide array of factors in the mix.The enormous gulf between the Premier League and championship is even more acutely in evidence within the Premier League itself where probably 4 categories exist: 1,Capable of competing for a top four position (probably 8 clubs) 2, Capable of filling a spot south of the top 4 but in the top 10( maybe 10 clubs) 3,Good enough to have no concerns of being in the relegation fight (probably a dozen clubs) which means there are probably 8 managers under constant pressure.

Would G.J. be attractive to any Premier League team ? I doubt it, perhaps Hull or Stoke. G.J.'s career prospects are now indelibly intertwined with City, however should we maintain progression then I can see him being sought after by other under achieving "big" clubs who have seen him close-up from being in the same division.Teams like Wolves,Derby,Leicester,Reading, the Sheffields,Leeds, and perhaps Watford for different reasons could tempt him away.Add K.M. to the mix and I can imagine Watford fans would relish our management duo.

All hypothetical....but reality, 2 Premier League managers have already departed and they have only played 4 games!

If G.J. wants to control the stress and pressure while still getting a good nights sleep then stay put for as long as progression can be maintained.Joe Jordan was tempted away too easily in his first stint and still regrets it.G.J. is probably experienced and smart enough to know that this particular situation is as healthy as one can find in the world of football today.

[Redhyde]

Beckham has repeatedly said many times he will not become a manager or a coach.

He also says he's good enough to play for his country and it wasn't a purely financial decision to play in the US. I don't always believe the things he says.

[Red_Mat]

Sorry wasnt having a dig at you, just something I felt like mentioning about Ince.

That's alright, wasn't having a go at you, just some of the other extreme reactions on here. Not a big fan of Ince myself, although I do respect his achievements as a player.

[Red_Mat]

Steve Copple is well educated. If I remember correctly he was doing a degree at Liverpool Uni when he was transferred from Tranmere to Man U ( Economics I think)

Joey Barton must be well educated because he also has letters after his name. Joey Barton A.S.B.O., H.M.P.

And to be fair, Steve Coppell is one of the few consistently successful managers out there. But as I said education is no guarantee of becoming a manager. Terry Butcher, Sam Allardyce, Peter Reid... all have become managers in recent years. Not suggesting they're thick, but they've not had great education.

[double-trouble]

And to be fair, Steve Coppell is one of the few consistently successful managers out there. But as I said education is no guarantee of becoming a manager. Terry Butcher, Sam Allardyce, Peter Reid... all have become managers in recent years. Not suggesting they're thick, but they've not had great education.

I like Steve Coppell . A deep thinking manager me thinks and English .

He never gives much away , never seems to smile , leaves long breaks of silence where you feel you have to say something else and never seems to give much eye contact .

Certainly not shy of the media but probably wary . Not dare I say camera friendly as a G.J is ( without hogging it , as you always know G.J will always come up with something witty )

Would he ( Coppell ) be a nightmare or angel for a chairman and the board ?

Yes they came down , but they seem a good team to watch where something always seems to happen .