Follow The Leader , The Leader , The Leader

[double-trouble]

Hypothetical again , but when Newcastle , West Ham and whoever next gets rid of a manager , as last year G.J will be associated by many here as a possible candidate . Anything from ridicule to worry can be expressed by us and at some stage it may well be reality .

Bigger clubs will and cannot keep ignoring his achievements in his managerial career and if he was to progress this club near again , or into the Prem , we may have more worried members than now .

So as seems usual in manager movement he would look possibly to take Keith Millen and some other unsung hero backstage members ofstaff with him .

Would Keith Millen be a future City manager if G.J was to go ? or

Will he be one of the no . 2's that never take on the no. 1 role ?

Interested to hear views .

[Nibor]

Bigger clubs can and will keep ignoring his achievements in favour of big "names" with far inferior records.

Look at Blackburn - they went for Paul Ince for christ's sake. He's accomplished not even a tenth of what GJ has but because he once played for England he's got a top flight job.

West Ham will end up with some big name Italian with most likely no idea about English football.

It's all hype over substance these days in the Premier League and that suits me fine because GJ gets little of the former and has much of the latter.

[double-trouble]

Bigger clubs can and will keep ignoring his achievements in favour of big "names" with far inferior records.

Look at Blackburn - they went for Paul Ince for christ's sake. He's accomplished not even a tenth of what GJ has but because he once played for England he's got a top flight job.

West Ham will end up with some big name Italian with most likely no idea about English football.

It's all hype over substance these days in the Premier League and that suits me fine because GJ gets little of the former and has much of the latter.

Totally agree with all you say and I was discussing Paul Ince a week or so ago with a local Blackburn fan up here . He and many others he knows did'nt think Ince could take the club any further than what Hughes had already achieved . Be interested on views of the questions thoughas I certainly believe K.M is a driving force for the team but not sure if he could be the manager .

What do others on hear think , as the topic will raise its ugly head at some stage me thinks .

[RedM]

Purely hypothetically, and just my gut feeling, but I think if Gary were to go for whatever reason then I feel Millen would go with him.

Keith Miillen is very highly qualified as far as coaching badges are concerned. He had more qualifications than Gary for a while I think. They seem to have such a good working relationship and they suit eachother. Gary has often said he is not very computer literate and leaves all that side of things to Millen. I think a lot of what Millen does largely goes unnoticed, he sort of blends into the background and gets his head down and gets on with it, as illustrated in the playoff game against Palace. i'd think we would really miss him if he went, and Gary would be hard pushed to strike up such a trusted relationship with another. They are a team.

My other main concern would be the loss of Pete Johnson as our scout if Gary were to move. He is totally dedicated to his job and really feels you with confidence in his interviews. I know if Gary were to move other clubs have their own scouts but Gary seems to like to be surrounded by those he trusts, and it works so why not.

This is the important bit I believe. The 2 teams mentioned, as they are topical at the moment, have had problems due to others making the Managers decisions for him. I cannot see Gary working under those conditions whatsoever. He has proved to be astute in his dealings and the upmost professional in his conduct. I just can't see him being 'advised' what to do! He doesn't seem comfortable with the idea of the suits calling the shots, his comments about Misfit and his people were very clear.

As far as i know he is happy here, he has the support of an excellent chairman, promise of a new stadium and new training facillities. he also hasn't taken us as far as he can yet and I believe he will finish the job.

[Guest]

I think SL said either at the open day or on world that if/when GJ moves he would expect to loose the associated back room staff such as Pete etc.

[Strictly Obi]

Bigger clubs can and will keep ignoring his achievements in favour of big "names" with far inferior records.

Look at Blackburn - they went for Paul Ince for christ's sake. He's accomplished not even a tenth of what GJ has but because he once played for England he's got a top flight job.

West Ham will end up with some big name Italian with most likely no idea about English football.

It's all hype over substance these days in the Premier League and that suits me fine because GJ gets little of the former and has much of the latter.

i a gree with you totally! Prem clubs would much rather buy the Sun or the Mirror, than the Times or the Telelgraph! It's all about image and profile these days.

IF! and when GJ goes, i imagine KM will be given a caretaking role, and assessed on merit after x amount of games. Much better in imo than taking on Dennis Wise or the likes....can't think of anything worse! Having said all this GJ is staying put!

[Andy Horsman]

Personally, should the unthinkable happen and GJ get poached by another club (and as others have said with his continued success here that becomes more and more feasible), then I would like to see KM as his successor to bring continuity.

That would give others like Walshie and even Super Scott the opportunity to be promoted within the management hierachy.

[Red_Mat]

It will come eventually, and we face loising a whole team of people as Gary, completely understandably, will want to work with the people he feels he can work with best and who he trusts. Therefore Pete Johnson, and probably Glen Schmidt, Nick Dawes and Mark Layder.

As well as this, we may possibly lose Keith Millen, depending how long GJ has been here by then and whether he sees himself as a replacement at that point or not. We all know he is ambitious and would like to try management.

There's also the real possibility we'd lose quite a few players (maybe Lee...)

In terms of current management staff, Walshie, Naylor, Clayton, all these may stay. And of course there are a number of players currently at the club (Murray and Carey) who have expressed an interest in coaching and management in the future and might well be useful for the transition. And a number of players who've been around the club in recent years (I'm thinking mainly Alex Russell) who enjoyed their time here and who have also expressed a desire to move into coaching and management - maybe he'd come back.

Other than Millen, and maybe Carey, I don't really see any really obvious candidate to step into GJ's (rather large) shoes should he move on. But who knows?!

Maybe we'd get someone in from outside.

But let's be real, he's not going at the moment, he's expressed no desire to go and the chances are he probably wouldn't leave for a year or two yet.

Besides, I'm sure Steve Lansdown is already thinking of measures to take should the worst come to the worst and they all follow GJ the leader out of the Gate!

[double-trouble]

Purely hypothetically, and just my gut feeling, but I think if Gary were to go for whatever reason then I feel Millen would go with him.

Keith Miillen is very highly qualified as far as coaching badges are concerned. He had more qualifications than Gary for a while I think. They seem to have such a good working relationship and they suit eachother. Gary has often said he is not very computer literate and leaves all that side of things to Millen. I think a lot of what Millen does largely goes unnoticed, he sort of blends into the background and gets his head down and gets on with it, as illustrated in the playoff game against Palace. i'd think we would really miss him if he went, and Gary would be hard pushed to strike up such a trusted relationship with another. They are a team.

My other main concern would be the loss of Pete Johnson as our scout if Gary were to move. He is totally dedicated to his job and really feels you with confidence in his interviews. I know if Gary were to move other clubs have their own scouts but Gary seems to like to be surrounded by those he trusts, and it works so why not.

This is the important bit I believe. The 2 teams mentioned, as they are topical at the moment, have had problems due to others making the Managers decisions for him. I cannot see Gary working under those conditions whatsoever. He has proved to be astute in his dealings and the upmost professional in his conduct. I just can't see him being 'advised' what to do! He doesn't seem comfortable with the idea of the suits calling the shots, his comments about Misfit and his people were very clear.

As far as i know he is happy here, he has the support of an excellent chairman, promise of a new stadium and new training facillities. he also hasn't taken us as far as he can yet and I believe he will finish the job.

I think your last paragraph is one that may not be bettered . We are lucky , as I said with all that is in support of the team behind the scenes and usually when a manager goes he looks to keep what he has built .

What keeps many of us motivated in whatever job role we have is that we are acknowledged for what good we achieve , not just financially as that is not always possible at any particular time but that the bigwigs above you support decisions and what you desire to better what you do .

In todays pro football ( well all sports ) pace of technology and science is fast and forever forward moving and can aid greatly what you want to achieve .

The training facilities will support what the manager and his staff desire for the club's immediate future . The stadium ( although however sad to leave the Gate ) will advance the club both financially and maybe internationally .

[Roe]

Purely hypothetically, and just my gut feeling, but I think if Gary were to go for whatever reason then I feel Millen would go with him.

Keith Miillen is very highly qualified as far as coaching badges are concerned. He had more qualifications than Gary for a while I think. They seem to have such a good working relationship and they suit eachother. Gary has often said he is not very computer literate and leaves all that side of things to Millen. I think a lot of what Millen does largely goes unnoticed, he sort of blends into the background and gets his head down and gets on with it, as illustrated in the playoff game against Palace. i'd think we would really miss him if he went, and Gary would be hard pushed to strike up such a trusted relationship with another. They are a team.

I know what you mean about Millen but the same was said about Steve Thompson and Yeovil. Anyway if GJ ever goes.. Millen replaces him as manager in my opinion. Especially if he was to go in the next year or 2.. it'd just keep the good feel and atmosphere about the club rather than start from scratch with a new manager.

[headhunter]

Look at Blackburn - they went for Paul Ince for christ's sake. He's accomplished not even a tenth of what GJ has but because he once played for England he's got a top flight job.

I can't say I am a big fan of Paul Ince but his track record in management is credible, albeit over a short period :

He saved Macclesfield from almost certain relegation and then took MK Dons up at the first time of asking. Clearly his playing pedigree is a big advantage on his CV. I have a sneaky feeling that he could end up as a future England manager

[Nibor]

I can't say I am a big fan of Paul Ince but his track record in management is credible, albeit over a short period :

He saved Macclesfield from almost certain relegation and then took MK Dons up at the first time of asking. Clearly his playing pedigree is a big advantage on his CV. I have a sneaky feeling that he could end up as a future England manager

Ince doesn't have a bad record, that isn't what I was saying, but it's a far cry from Gary Johnson's. He's jumped from successful league two coach (at a club that always should have been promoted based on budget and the number of backroom staff he was allowed) to a Prem manager just because of his name.

[Red_Mat]

I can't say I am a big fan of Paul Ince but his track record in management is credible, albeit over a short period :

He saved Macclesfield from almost certain relegation and then took MK Dons up at the first time of asking. Clearly his playing pedigree is a big advantage on his CV. I have a sneaky feeling that he could end up as a future England manager

I've said similar, actually about him ending up as a future England manager - possibly the first black England manager?

He does have a good record, as you say, although he shouldn't have taken the dirty money from Franchise FC. I think a year or two more in the lower divisions probably would have benefitted him more, rather than the quick move to the Premier League. Mark Hughes had probably taken Blackburn as high as they're ever likely to get in the current age - the only way Ince can take them anywhere is down from here.

He would have been better off proving himself in the Championship and getting a team promoted, like Keane, rather than going straight in at the top. Mind you, it doesn't seem to have hurt Chris Coleman or Gareth Southgate too badly, does it?

[Guest Red Cell]

The Paul Ince name is what will probably attract players particularly foreign (cheaper) players to Blackburn. His name puts Blackburn on the map to many players. West Ham will go down the same route. Only a few clubs would go for a non name (maybe even just 1 club Bolton) I think if Johnson is to manage in the prem he will have to take a side up, hopefully us.

All of that said, I'm pretty sure that if a prem club came knocking, Johnson would go. look at how much he earns now versus what he would earn in the prem? The only loyalty in football is found in supporters.

[double-trouble]

The Paul Ince name is what will probably attract players particularly foreign (cheaper) players to Blackburn. His name puts Blackburn on the map to many players. West Ham will go down the same route. Only a few clubs would go for a non name (maybe even just 1 club Bolton) I think if Johnson is to manage in the prem he will have to take a side up, hopefully us.

All of that said, I'm pretty sure that if a prem club came knocking, Johnson would go. look at how much he earns now versus what he would earn in the prem? The only loyalty in football is found in supporters.

In answer to your reply and not the original posers :~

Don't know if he would me thinks. If he did I don't think it would be any of the perceived ' big ' clubs leaving the FULHAMS , BOLTONS , WIGANS ( you know the one's ) and with all as a club we have going for us off the field , alongwith potential of the playing staff in the champs what would they offer to him career wise .

Rather be a manager with ' gone up ' on a c.v than a ' gone down ' which is always a probability with those clubs .

Again we will all have many different views and I don't know if money ( in wages ) is always a deciding factor for managers .

If G.J failed to achieve promo with the City ( e.g 3 consecutive play offs ) he may think that he's taken the club a far as he could and need a new challenge which may be in the champs .

[cider head]

Bigger clubs will and cannot keep ignoring his achievements in his managerial

They will be aware of him but i can't see your west hams or newcastles appealing to GJ

not that of size of club, fan base or pay packet but they way the clubs are run, i can't

see him going to any club where he can not have full control of the playing and transfers

and he would not be dictated to as much as keegan or curbishley would not.

Look at the comments of pete johnson on city world when he spoke of that coventry striker

wanting to bring his own army of layers which put GJ off as in as in contrast nicky maynard

turned up with his mum and wanted to play football and thats the attitude GJ has and i can't see

him putting up with all that bull of directors of football and people buying and selling players

for him without his agreement, i would expect GJ to be a prem manager one day but with a club

he takes there and top to bottom built around his system which i feel will be us...

[Redhyde]

At Yeovil and us he kept the current assistant manager. Might be coincidence, might be ability of the individuals, but you get a first hand report of the current team and squad and which players are like what etc. It's alot of information to ignore and just sweep away and if he discovers they're a good bloke/coach i'd imagine they get kept on.

In a way it's good that the whole team goes, because a new manager usually wants to bring in his own staff so it saves firing them..

Paul Ince did a good job with Macclesfield. He did a decent job with MK Dons. He's gotten off to an average start with Blackburn. But as long as he doesn't take them down or near the bottom 5-6 that's acceptable. He'd have to mess up the team/squad massively to do this IMO.

[bucksred]

West Ham will end up with some big name Italian with most likely no idea about English football.

Paolo De Canio, knows c**k all about British football? hmmmmm news to me.

[Nibor]

Paolo De Canio, knows c**k all about British football? hmmmmm news to me.

There were at least five italian names linked and only two of them have ever played in England.

That's why I said "most likely".

[karnataka]

hello peeps, This is an interesting thread and one that is all too familiar to me.

I am a Swansea City fan and all your fears about GJ are the same as we have about our man Roberto Martinez. Any manager who achieves success is bound to be mentioned whenever a vacancy appears - Martinez currently 33-1 for the Newcastle job with one bookie despite only having been a manager since Feb 2007.

What you have in GJ and what we have in RM though, are a rare breed in football these days. They are both honourable men who show far more loyalty than most, want to see a job through and won't have their heads turned by people waving cheque books at them. I'm pretty sure GJ will not leave you until he believes he can take you no further and RM has already said, they had to kick me out as a player and they will have to do the same as a manager. How far that will be though, is another matter. I also believe they are the 2 best managers in the Championship because they only want to sign players who are 'right' for their clubs. (We'll leave the debate about LT aside for the time being). They are certainly the 2 Championship managers with the best records in the last 2 years and any Premier League board member who doesn't notice stuff like that is an idiot and doesn't deserve be a board member.

Your fear is, if GJ leaves, will he take his backroom staff with him. Ours is little more complicated. We have 6 Spanish players plus an Argentine who has played mostly in Spain and although they would be under contract, would they want to stay for another manager? Who knows. We also have a Spanish goalkeeping coach and probably a few other Spaniards somewhere.

From an outsider's view, I would say GJ will still be your manager in May 2010. If he hasn't got you into the Prem by then, he may believe it's not going to happen and look for another challenge. Someone further up mentioned 3 consecutive playoffs, well that would suggest a levelling off of progress.

All the best for the season. You'll see how far we've come on December 6th. Can't wait for that one, I only live 18 miles from AG as the drunk crow flies and I have a lot of BC supporting friends. We both have to put up with the ManU/Chelsea/Arsenal shirt wearing types.

And before any tells me to FO back to my own board, don't forget why GJ is your manager. I haven't

[bully]

In answer to your reply and not the original posers :~

Don't know if he would me thinks. If he did I don't think it would be any of the perceived ' big ' clubs leaving the FULHAMS , BOLTONS , WIGANS ( you know the one's ) and with all as a club we have going for us off the field , alongwith potential of the playing staff in the champs what would they offer to him career wise .

Rather be a manager with ' gone up ' on a c.v than a ' gone down ' which is always a probability with those clubs .

Again we will all have many different views and I don't know if money ( in wages ) is always a deciding factor for managers .

If G.J failed to achieve promo with the City ( e.g 3 consecutive play offs ) he may think that he's taken the club a far as he could and need a new challenge which may be in the champs .

I wouldn't be so arrogant as to think that only Prem clubs would be of interest to GJ - there are big championship clubs with probably a more realistic chance of progress over the next couple of seasons that might be appealing - particularly if they pay big wages and back their man with a healthy transfer budget.

I actually think that's the more likely source of a bid to take our man - hope GJ tells them to sod off if that happens of course.

[westred1]

hello peeps, This is an interesting thread and one that is all too familiar to me.

I am a Swansea City fan and all your fears about GJ are the same as we have about our man Roberto Martinez. Any manager who achieves success is bound to be mentioned whenever a vacancy appears - Martinez currently 33-1 for the Newcastle job with one bookie despite only having been a manager since Feb 2007.

What you have in GJ and what we have in RM though, are a rare breed in football these days. They are both honourable men who show far more loyalty than most, want to see a job through and won't have their heads turned by people waving cheque books at them. I'm pretty sure GJ will not leave you until he believes he can take you no further and RM has already said, they had to kick me out as a player and they will have to do the same as a manager. How far that will be though, is another matter. I also believe they are the 2 best managers in the Championship because they only want to sign players who are 'right' for their clubs. (We'll leave the debate about LT aside for the time being). They are certainly the 2 Championship managers with the best records in the last 2 years and any Premier League board member who doesn't notice stuff like that is an idiot and doesn't deserve be a board member.

Your fear is, if GJ leaves, will he take his backroom staff with him. Ours is little more complicated. We have 6 Spanish players plus an Argentine who has played mostly in Spain and although they would be under contract, would they want to stay for another manager? Who knows. We also have a Spanish goalkeeping coach and probably a few other Spaniards somewhere.

From an outsider's view, I would say GJ will still be your manager in May 2010. If he hasn't got you into the Prem by then, he may believe it's not going to happen and look for another challenge. Someone further up mentioned 3 consecutive playoffs, well that would suggest a levelling off of progress.

All the best for the season. You'll see how far we've come on December 6th. Can't wait for that one, I only live 18 miles from AG as the drunk crow flies and I have a lot of BC supporting friends. We both have to put up with the ManU/Chelsea/Arsenal shirt wearing types.

And before any tells me to FO back to my own board, don't forget why GJ is your manager. I haven't

Good first post and welcome to the forum!

Roberto Martinez was a very good manager at league 1, as was Gary Johnson when City were in that division. And I think Martinez can make the step up to being a well-etablished championship manager but I don't believe he'll be poached by a prem club before GJ is. IMO I don't think he has been in management long enough (How long has it been? Couple of years) to get picked up by a top flight club, which is why the Manchester Utd story of them lining up Martinez as a replacement to Sir Alex was very bizarre.

He, like Gary, is obviously rated from other managers, players and fans and he will one say be in the top flight but not for a while yet, which I hope is the case for Gary as I wouldn't like to think of where City would go without the best manager we have ever had IMHO.

[Ryan 7]

Hypothetical again , but when Newcastle , West Ham and whoever next gets rid of a manager , as last year G.J will be associated by many here as a possible candidate . Anything from ridicule to worry can be expressed by us and at some stage it may well be reality .

Bigger clubs will and cannot keep ignoring his achievements in his managerial career and if he was to progress this club near again , or into the Prem , we may have more worried members than now .

So as seems usual in manager movement he would look possibly to take Keith Millen and some other unsung hero backstage members ofstaff with him .

Would Keith Millen be a future City manager if G.J was to go ? or

Will he be one of the no . 2's that never take on the no. 1 role ?

Interested to hear views .

I'd be more worried about his brother Pete following him. :noexpression:

[bully]

I'd be more worried about his brother Pete following him. :noexpression:

Just curious and asked it on another thread - what exactly has Pete done, I mean who has he been directly responsible for bringing to the club who wasn't already well known?

[Ryan 7]

Just curious and asked it on another thread - what exactly has Pete done, I mean who has he been directly responsible for bringing to the club who wasn't already well known?

Well, he is the main scout and looks for potential transfer targets and then informs GJ.

Just 2 examples are Adriano Basso and Marvin Elliot

[Henry]

I've said similar, actually about him ending up as a future England manager - possibly the first black England manager?

That is excatly the reason I detest Paul Ince. He thinks the world owes him a favour because he's black. He often says the lack of black managers is a form of racism and discrimination. Boll*cks!

The reasons there arent many black managers is because they are a MINORITY group or just not good enough. People who falsly accuse people of rasicam is disgusting

[double-trouble]

I wouldn't be so arrogant as to think that only Prem clubs would be of interest to GJ - there are big championship clubs with probably a more realistic chance of progress over the next couple of seasons that might be appealing - particularly if they pay big wages and back their man with a healthy transfer budget.

I actually think that's the more likely source of a bid to take our man - hope GJ tells them to sod off if that happens of course.

Yeah , I would'nt disagree with this AND WAS WRONG TO DISMISS CCCor fail to recognise CCC clubs , even possibly ones that come down while G.J is here .

Again I think personal goals and honour would motivate him than his future wealth but spending power to do as you please would tempt . Saying that he has been supported by the board with big money since his arrival and made wise decisions to buy , let go or dismiss individuals .

[bucksred]

There were at least five italian names linked and only two of them have ever played in England.

That's why I said "most likely".

Really with Di Canio publicly stating he'd love to manage the hapless Hammers (God alone knows why, but there ya go), and Gianfranco Zola also being linked (ditto), I would suggest the Italian connection is likely to know pretty much how English football works. The only other major name linked Ive seen bandied about here is Mancini, and he doesnt know the English game, but at his level, I would suggest he wouldnt exactly struggle either. The names bandied have been taken from Laaaaandumb papers in the last two days

[double-trouble]

That is excatly the reason I detest Paul Ince. He thinks the world owes him a favour because he's black. He often says the lack of black managers is a form of racism and discrimination. Boll*cks!

The reasons there arent many black managers is because they are a MINORITY group or just not good enough. People who falsly accuse people of rasicam is disgusting

Back again to the original post , it was as much about the backroom staff as GJ ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND WHY HE HAS BECOME THE CENTRE OF THE THREAD . I THINK THE PASSION FOR THE MAN SHOWS IN MOST WE DISCUSS ON HERE AND THE FEAR OF LOSING HIM , ALTHOUGH IT WILL HAPPEN AT SOME STAGE , WILL BE LIKE A DEATH IN THE FAMILY .

As for the Paul Ince mention above , it was said earlier about ' the first black England manager ' by a poster .

Why oh why did the word BLACK have to be mentioned . Does that make him or his colour special and different to a WHITE manager .

We are back to the racial discussion of every street corner , library and shopping precinct in the country .

I will be honest and say that Paul Ince is not my cup of tea . He was not the best midfilder in the country IMO , perhaps over rated , had big money moves to some massive clubs which also elevated his self opinion alongwith an often arrogant and dismissive attitude of the press ( who we know can be pains in the ar*e ) and the fans who helped to put him where he is .

I heard an interview about a year or so ago where he answers a question along the lines of the race issue stopping minorities moving forward in the game .

I said at the time that when black people in this country get to any position in power they feel they have to try to empower other black people in the country to rise up and show strength and opposition , in whatever walk of life , to a perceived continual persecution .

Why does this happen . In Paul Ince and any future role he has in football or with England as the national side , I will watch with great interest , not because of the colour of his skin but because I am interested in what he is doing as a profession to him and a passion to me .

But sad to say it will be mentioned if he does get the top job by the press , because it matters to some as it did when I believe he was said to be the first black Premier League manager on the news ( and forgive me if I am wrong with that ) .

Where will this end , will it , probably not because someone else will mention it tomorrow and the next day and the next......

[Bris Red]

That is excatly the reason I detest Paul Ince. He thinks the world owes him a favour because he's black. He often says the lack of black managers is a form of racism and discrimination. Boll*cks!

The reasons there arent many black managers is because they are a MINORITY group or just not good enough. People who falsly accuse people of rasicam is disgusting

I don't think ive ever heard Ince say that?

There is a simple reason why there are not enough black managers, hardly any black players seem to want to go into manegement for whatever reason.

If you look at Ian wright jon barnes etc a lot of this guys if they would have choosen to be a manager and got the correct badges etc probably would have had the same chances as white managers but for what ever reason they have not decided to go down the road of management.