fct Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Spud, doesn't the fact that in some constituencies 50% of people don't bother tell you something about the system? Labour got in with something like 33% of the voting public voting for them, in many cases not because they WANTED Labour in, but because they didn't want the Tories in. How fair can that be? And you yourself are sailing close to extreme views by declaring those candidates with minority views shouldn't be allowed a fair shot at parliament, surely that is the great thing about democracy. It isn't one if only certain types of candidates are permitted to stand. Would you deny voters the right to vote for the Greens, the Socialist Workers, the anti-Europeans, the Monster Looneys, the BNP, the nationalists? In a PR system all get some say, reflecting those who have views compatible with those parties. Currently they have not a dog's chance in having a candidate elected, so we have the same old corrupt egotistical lying two-faced lot who get elected. Hardly fair, is it? I would bet that, if PR came in, the voting would shoot up as everyone would have some chance of getting a candidate form their choice of party in parliament. Personally I think the biggest gainers in the PR system would be the Lib Dems as they often finish second in many constituencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
city3rovers2 Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Glad to see I've given you all something to think about! Like I said in my last post, its not something I've thought about, I just don't feel anything towards my country. In a way, I wish I did. But I'm really not interested in how they do. I'd rather see Tommy do well, he means so much more. I'm not tyrying to unpatriotic for any reason, other than I just don't feel I have a reason to be so. And I'm not going to slag the country off again, its just something I've never felt, never been brought up to feel. And that's not a slur on my parents, by the way, before anyone starts blaming them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fct Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 At least you're straight and honest about it which is a good thing to be. Sometimes I hear people saying things they don't really believe and that gets my back up. Lip service to things, you know? Anyway, I'll be following Tommy's progress for NI throughout the competition but when it comes to playing England I'll be rooting for England. The world cup's been going on in other places already and South Korea's coach has resigned over poor performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 It always saddens me that people don't vote, but the lack of choice in our elections is probably slightly to blame, but I really belive many just can't be bothered to make the effort. Who can blame them? It's not like any party is radically different from the other, apart from the Lib Dems, who put the fear of god into me. A PR elected government would include every type of idea possible, but would it result in the type of system that Italy has, where coalition governments can last only a few months? As it stands now I really don't feel any major party represents the views of the general public. I think labour treats us with disdain, the Torys are out of touch, the Lib Dems have too many wierd policies (Under 16's in hardcore porn) the BNP are just too extreme to be taken seriously and the socialist parties would probably give the country away to a federated Europe. If only there was a government that was actually interested in the issues of the majority, acted on these issues and dealt with the fringe issues when there is time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fct Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Willsbridge, I wholeheartedly agree with you in every way there. Best result would to have a hung parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never to the dark side Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 I have immense respect for Tommy But Tommy can always win another cap or score a goal against another team I would always have England winning Its the same as if a Rovers player (heavan forbid) played for England would you prefer him not to score for England cos he's from the other side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveinNC Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Want England to win.............could care less if Tommy was on the pitch or not:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Spud, doesn't the fact that in some constituencies 50% of people don't bother tell you something about the system? Labour got in with something like 33% of the voting public voting for them, in many cases not because they WANTED Labour in, but because they didn't want the Tories in. How fair can that be? And you yourself are sailing close to extreme views by declaring those candidates with minority views shouldn't be allowed a fair shot at parliament, surely that is the great thing about democracy. It isn't one if only certain types of candidates are permitted to stand. Would you deny voters the right to vote for the Greens, the Socialist Workers, the anti-Europeans, the Monster Looneys, the BNP, the nationalists? In a PR system all get some say, reflecting those who have views compatible with those parties. Currently they have not a dog's chance in having a candidate elected, so we have the same old corrupt egotistical lying two-faced lot who get elected. Hardly fair, is it? I would bet that, if PR came in, the voting would shoot up as everyone would have some chance of getting a candidate form their choice of party in parliament. Personally I think the biggest gainers in the PR system would be the Lib Dems as they often finish second in many constituencies. i don't deny the extreemists the right to get some representation in parliament, but Pr means that they can have an unreasonable and unrepresentative amount of power. remember the Nazis, they got into to the reischstag because they had a relatively small amount of support, but in the right places. Pr can give a much distorted version of what the country wants. The lib dems would be the biggest gainers of a Pr system, and i would rather have the lib dems in power than either of the two other parties, because they are the most socialist of the main parties, labour are conservative and to the right of centre. Pr is only of any use if like america you want to make it impossible to govern. britain can be governed centrally, so there is no need for an unnaturally weakened government. the Pr system never gets any thing done, even under psychopaths like Thatcher things get done, under Pr the country may as well give up and just stagnate because no government can do anything, because you will never get a government with any kind of consistancy on anything. it is a shame that more people don't vote, but if you don't vote then IMO you have no right to compalin about the current government. Even if you just go puerly to spoil your ballot i would give you more respect that some moron who couldn't be arsed to vote and yet still moans about the government. I don't want the BNP to have any say because they are a moronic party who don't even understant what they themselfs want. they want to give britain back to the "true" brits, well that rules every englishman out of it then, as in terms of what is a true brit no englishman can compare to a welshman or a scotsman, the descendents of the pict race are the only true brits race left. i can't give any credence to any party that says it wants something when they have no idea what that actually means. Hell i don't like my choices, but will that stop me from voting ? No. I will just like everyone has ever had to do and pick the lesser of the three main evils. there is NEVER going to be a party that satisfies even 50% of the country, and a coilition under a Pr system is going to satisfy about 0% because nothing will be done about anything, and nobody wants that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapleHillPhil Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 In my case its not that i'm anti England but rather anti the England football team. I've been to several England Cricket matches and cheered on the Rugby team during the recent World Cup and have been proud to do so. I simply struggle to see how you can support the vast majority of the England Football team. There are so many of them that have question marks about their behaviour on and off the pitch its embarrasing. Off the top of my head I can only think of Gareth Southgate of the regulars who seems a genuinely good bloke. All this before you even consider the behaviour of England 'fans'. I'm sorry but England International Football means diddly squat to me & the sooner we are eliminated from Euro 2004 the happier I, and millions of Portugese citizens will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilciderhed Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 I hope England destroy them. Tommy will be an enemy for the night I'm afraid. However I'm sure we'll all be very proud of one of our own playing a top international match. I'll be cheering NI on against Wales though. Same for me. Hope he doesnt get a look in and England win. But if it makes no difference to Englands chances I'll be cheering him on in other matches. In my case its not that i'm anti England but rather anti the England football team. I've been to several England Cricket matches and cheered on the Rugby team during the recent World Cup and have been proud to do so. I simply struggle to see how you can support the vast majority of the England Football team. There are so many of them that have question marks about their behaviour on and off the pitch its embarrasing. Off the top of my head I can only think of Gareth Southgate of the regulars who seems a genuinely good bloke. All this before you even consider the behaviour of England 'fans'. I'm sorry but England International Football means diddly squat to me & the sooner we are eliminated from Euro 2004 the happier I, and millions of Portugese citizens will be. So, what if England reached the Euro 2004 final, you wouldnt care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapleHillPhil Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Same for me. Hope he doesnt get a look in and England win. But if it makes no difference to Englands chances I'll be cheering him on in other matches. So, what if England reached the Euro 2004 final, you wouldnt care? I dont think they'll get that far anyway due to a mixture of footballing inability and neanderthal football fan but if England should make it then i'll hardly give it a second thought. If its anything like Italia 90 & Euro 96 the whole experience will be overtaken by middle class bandwagon jumpers anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fct Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Agreed; those "trendy" people only come along when there's a finals tourney to enjoy. They don't give a monkey's during the pain of a qualifying tournament. They take the tickets of the genuine fans who have experienced the highs and lows of many years of following the national team. As for the Neanderthals, pity they didn't go to Turkey and get arrested and sentenced to life in one of their prisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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