4-5-1 - What Does It Mean For Us?

[boadle]

There are a few people on the board (including my good friend DaisyBCFC) calling for a change in operating tactics, most notably to a 4-5-1 formation.

Unfortunately, my tactical knowledge falls apart even in PES, so I'd be interested in learning a little about what this might entail, and how it would fit with the players we have at the club:

From Wikipedia

4-5-1 is a defensive formation, however if the two midfield wingers play a more attacking role it can be likened to 4-3-3. The formation can be used to grind out 0-0 draws or preserve a lead, as the packing of the centre midfield makes it difficult for the opposition to build-up play. Because of the 'closeness' of the midfield, the opposing team's forwards will often be starved of possession. However, due to the lone striker, the centre of the midfield does have the responsibility of pushing forward as well. The defensive midfielder will often control the pace of the game.[7]

A modification of this formation was also used by José Mourinho's Chelsea F.C. side. This modified version is the 4-1-4-1 where only one striker is used and the wingers are given the responsibility of moving the ball forward and attacking. A holding midfielder is also positioned in front of the back four. This provides freedom for the rest of the team to move forward and attack as the defense will be "protected" by the holding midfielder. The England national football team under manager Fabio Capello opted for a 4-1-4-1 formation in an international friendly against Switzerland for his first game in charge.

[andy g]

I think its wrong to label it as a defensive formation. As that wiki entry sort of suggests, it can be as positive or as negative as the manager/players want it to be.

Greece, Denmark and Portugal both played a 4-5-1 formation at Euro 2004, but they were very different in their style of play.

The bigger concern for us at the moment is that we're lumping high balls at Adebola too much - and that will be a problem no matter what formation we choose.

[cider head]

It means back to square one and no need to buy maynard or big bad john and keeping byfield, showunmi

and even jevons.

It means covering an ineffective midfielder so he can stay on the pitch and sacrificing a 2 million pound striker

and a up and coming talented striker because they don't get the service from your ineffective midfielder not doing

the job! and your wingers come in narrow looking for the ball as your ineffective midfielder keeps playing it backwards

so your defenders think sod this lets hoof it over the midfield as the ball keeps coming back to us so we may as well try and

get it upfront. only solution is dropping this ineffective midfielder, playing someone who can play make and get the other

players playing to their strengths and show why city signed the likes of trundle and maynard and untill the problem in

midfield rectified we will never see our full potential as a team and we are 1 midfield all rounder missing from being a very good side

[William Stand]

I would say we have actually used 4-4-1-1 rather than 4-5-1. Typically Noble plays just behind the centre forward. I think either Noble or Trundle could play this role well. Some of our best performances came with this shape last season. The problem is if you don't support the front guy you end up pretty toothless. It's also relatively easy to nullify - if you have a good man marker you sit him on Noble/Trundle & force the oppositon to hit balls into the front guy who has little support.

[Red_Mat]

It means back to square one and no need to buy maynard or big bad john and keeping byfield, showunmi

and even jevons.

It means covering an ineffective midfielder so he can stay on the pitch and sacrificing a 2 million pound striker

and a up and coming talented striker because they don't get the service from your ineffective midfielder not doing

the job! and your wingers come in narrow looking for the ball as your ineffective midfielder keeps playing it backwards

so your defenders think sod this lets hoof it over the midfield as the ball keeps coming back to us so we may as well try and

get it upfront. only solution is dropping this ineffective midfielder, playing someone who can play make and get the other

players playing to their strengths and show why city signed the likes of trundle and maynard and untill the problem in

midfield rectified we will never see our full potential as a team and we are 1 midfield all rounder missing from being a very good side

Who could you mean!?

The best summing up of our current predicament, ever!!!

[boadle]

It means back to square one and no need to buy maynard or big bad john and keeping byfield, showunmi

and even jevons.

It means covering an ineffective midfielder so he can stay on the pitch and sacrificing a 2 million pound striker

and a up and coming talented striker because they don't get the service from your ineffective midfielder not doing

the job! and your wingers come in narrow looking for the ball as your ineffective midfielder keeps playing it backwards

so your defenders think sod this lets hoof it over the midfield as the ball keeps coming back to us so we may as well try and

get it upfront. only solution is dropping this ineffective midfielder, playing someone who can play make and get the other

players playing to their strengths and show why city signed the likes of trundle and maynard and untill the problem in

midfield rectified we will never see our full potential as a team and we are 1 midfield all rounder missing from being a very good side

And that's 4-5-1 is it? Oh, I was going to say, otherwise there'd be a lot of 'em.

[cider head]

And that's 4-5-1 is it? Oh, I was going to say, otherwise there'd be a lot of 'em.

with the signings we have made we need a 4-4-2 as playing 5 in midfield you sacrifice a striker

to play someone like noble (another midfilder to cover a ineffective midfielder who may as well

be an extra center half) therefore we go back to last seasons formation and having wasted money

on strikers who can't get a game if playing 1 upfront and to which everyone was saying we needed

new strikers which in reality we needed a new central midfielder in the mould of say graham kavanah

who would attack, defend and spread the ball around for the wingers and strikers plus chip in with goals.

point is going back to 4-5-1 is fine if it works but que the maynard is a waste of money posts (when its not his fault)

and the posts of we need strikers etc. if we can put up with that then fine but it's back to square one.

[cider head]

Who could you mean!?

The best summing up of our current predicament, ever!!!

thanks!

Don't get me wrong when at ashton gate i will get behind the lads on the pitch with positive support

but it does not hide the fact that we have a weakness in midfield, sometimes getting behind this club

can be made hard and it is sometimes like getting behind a broken down bus and pushing it up park street,

when there is a tow truck next to you.

[Redhyde]

with the signings we have made we need a 4-4-2 as playing 5 in midfield you sacrifice a striker

to play someone like noble (another midfilder to cover a ineffective midfielder who may as well

be an extra center half) therefore we go back to last seasons formation and having wasted money

on strikers who can't get a game if playing 1 upfront and to which everyone was saying we needed

new strikers which in reality we needed a new central midfielder in the mould of say graham kavanah

who would attack, defend and spread the ball around for the wingers and strikers plus chip in with goals.

point is going back to 4-5-1 is fine if it works but que the maynard is a waste of money posts(when its not his fault)

and the posts of we need strikers etc. if we can put up with that fine bit it's back to square one.

Square one got us to the play off final!

People were moaning about Trundle/Showunmi/Byfield not scoring but we were playing football..and we were winning. I don't understand why GJ changed the winning system, instead of simply improving the personel within it.

And that ineffective midfielder was 3rd for his position in the league with assists last year... Hey i'm not sure about him in a 4-4-2, but ineffective is a lie, he's got one more assist for us playing in a 4-4-2 than Nick Carle did (who's now playing in a 4-5-1 incidentally)

[cider head]

Square one got us to the play off final!

People were moaning about Trundle/Showunmi/Byfield not scoring but we were playing football..and we were winning. I don't understand why GJ changed the winning system, instead of simply improving the personel within it.

And that ineffective midfielder was 3rd for his position in the league with assists last year... Hey i'm not sure about him in a 4-4-2, but ineffective is a lie, he's got one more assist for us playing in a 4-4-2 than Nick Carle did (who's now playing in a 4-5-1 incidentally)

yes square 1 did get us that far but the 5 man midfield was a cover not talking of carle but noble was the king pin

and this goes back as far as league 1.

my point is ok go back to it if it works (no problem with it) but que the moaning on the other side of the coin where it was

oh we need strikers, oh maynard is a waste of money as i said if we can put up with that on here then

do it, but with 4-4-2 the midfield personnel is ineffective at this time and i'd rather we signed some decent

competion for that central midfield role as we are very exposed there, but the 5 in midfield i see it as covering.

[Robbored]

Formations are all very well but if your players don't have the quality, tactics and team spirit will only take you so far. You will eventually run out of good fortune and be exposed. We've seen that already this season.

City don't have enough quality all over the pitch. Midfield in particular is weak and because of that the strikers lack enough good service. Defensively City are missing McCombe but he's just one player and if he gets injured again that cupboards pretty bare.

Johnson is hinting in the press that the loan market is an option - well thats good news imo. Some new faces will freshen things up and shift some of the currant first teamers out of the comfort zone. Its a clear message to those players who aren't perfroming that Johnson will get in players that will.

A kick up the arse in other words.

[Redhyde]

yes square 1 did get us that far but the 5 man midfield was a cover not talking of carle but noble was the king pin

and this goes back as far as league 1.

my point is ok go back to it if it works (no problem with it) but que the moaning on the other side of the coin where it was

oh we need strikers, oh maynard is a waste of money as i said if we can put up with that on here then

do it, but with 4-4-2 the midfield personnel is ineffective at this time and i'd rather we signed some decent

competion for that central midfield role, but the 5 in midfield i see it as covering.

Isn't the formation about covering deficiencies and indeed exploiting strengths?

Noble isn't fit so LJ being deep lying helps the defensive balance. LJ isn't great at going forward, but Elliott and Noble can carry the ball and shoot. Elliott can't pass but LJ especially is always available to take the ball.

I don't have a problem with players being "covered". They're championship players not all round superstars, each of them has flaws otherwise they wouldn't be at this level. Even at the top level players have their deficiencies covered.

[Red_Mat]

thanks!

Don't get me wrong when at ashton gate i will get behind the lads on the pitch with positive support

but it does not hide the fact that we have a weakness in midfield, sometimes getting behind this club

can be made hard and it is sometimes like getting behind a broken down bus and pushing it up park street,

when there is a tow truck next to you.

Yep, I know exactly what you mean; sometimes it feels like when we're doing well, we're doing well inspite of ourselves.

I'll always support them, never boo then, and never call for a manager's head (unless his name is 'Tony' and vaguely rhymes with Clueless). But you have to be able to look at these things from an objective point of view, don't you? You have to be able to see when something isn't working.

For me, playing 4-5-1 is just covering up for that weakness when we could simply remove the link and play someone stronger. Most of last season Elliott was doing the job of two men, which was why he wasn't 100% for the last third of the season. At least playing Noble there alongside Marvin, might see us score a few goals, rather than seeing the ball played backwards so often of being given away.

Johnson keeps saying about how we must come out and play at a much higher tempo, well I think we'd get that with Noble, Williams, or even Brian Wilson, in the team. Playing Lee Johnson sees us play at a meandering pace and gives us no urgency. We don't come out with a breakneck pace, and it's the reason why we've not started playing until the second half recently, usually when a substitute comes on...

A 4-4-2 formation would still work, and we have the right players to play that, we just aren't using them.

[Red_Mat]

Noble isn't fit so LJ being deep lying helps the defensive balance. LJ isn't great at going forward, but Elliott and Noble can carry the ball and shoot. Elliott can't pass but LJ especially is always available to take the ball.

How do you know Noble isn't fit?! He hasn't been injured lately, the only reason you could possibly base that on is the fact he hasn't got full match fitness and he'll only get that by playing, so play him!

So far he's scored one goal in less than half an hour on football this season. Lee Johnson has played 15 hours of football and not scored any. I know they're midfielders, but even so...what impact has LJ made?

[Red_Mat]

Formations are all very well but if your players don't have the quality, tactics and team spirit will only take you so far. You will eventually run out of good fortune and be exposed. We've seen that already this season.

City don't have enough quality all over the pitch. Midfield in particular is weak and because of that the strikers lack enough good service. Defensively City are missing McCombe but he's just one player and if he gets injured again that cupboards pretty bare.

Johnson is hinting in the press that the loan market is an option - well thats good news imo. Some new faces will freshen things up and shift some of the currant first teamers out of the comfort zone. Its a clear message to those players who aren't perfroming that Johnson will get in players that will.

A kick up the arse in other words.

Tactics and team formations do go a long way if they mean dropping players who are bringing morale down, and putting in players who would help raise morale.

The captain has made it clear he would like to see his friends Trundle and Noble play and I don't think mini-Johnson is the popular player at the club; it makes sense to make these changes, doesn't it?

[Nogbad the Bad]

LJ isn't great at going forward, but Elliott and Noble can carry the ball and shoot.

This always intrigues me.

When LJ was at Yeovil we used to see all their highlights and goals on the local sports news.

LJ appeared to be an all round midfielder, more than capable of taking the game to the opposition, who weighed in with his fair share of goals and scored some stunning long range free kicks.

Did I imagine all this and if I didn't what has happened since?

Is he less capable of being an offensive player now at a higher level, is he being told to play an unambitious more defensive game, is he playing in a role not entirely suitable to him for the sake of the team or has he lost the confidence to move into the oppositions half and shoot?

[daisybcfc]

with the signings we have made we need a 4-4-2 as playing 5 in midfield you sacrifice a striker

to play someone like noble (another midfilder to cover a ineffective midfielder who may as well

be an extra center half) therefore we go back to last seasons formation and having wasted money

on strikers who can't get a game if playing 1 upfront and to which everyone was saying we needed

new strikers which in reality we needed a new central midfielder in the mould of say graham kavanah

who would attack, defend and spread the ball around for the wingers and strikers plus chip in with goals.

point is going back to 4-5-1 is fine if it works but que the maynard is a waste of money posts (when its not his fault)

and the posts of we need strikers etc. if we can put up with that then fine but it's back to square one.

Why do the signing(s) (I can only think of one that would make anyone think what you're saying being NM) mean we need a 4-4-2????? That is just ludicrous!?!? What is your argument behind this? The fact you don't think he can play up front on his own? Why can't he?? People are just guessing and thinking it is gospel.

Playing a 5 man midfield, allows more freedom for all 3 central midfielders, meaning if 2 push, 1 can sit.

It also means we can flood their midfield if needs be, pulling our most attacking midfielder back if we are struggling to cope with their midfield. But also means if we are on top, with a versatile player we can push them even further forward.

It also allows a midfielder to come and retrieve the ball off of the defensive (a la Johnson) without leaving massive gaps in the midfield, which has been happening

But most importantly it allows more creative freedom and this is what we are lacking.

With players like Noble/Trundle who have that touch of class to play defensive splitting balls, i believe Maynard will flourish.

I see 5 in midfield as a way of attacking with more quality instead of quantity of just pumping balls forward, therefore I see it as an attacking change, not defensive.

[cider head]

This always intrigues me.

When LJ was at Yeovil we used to see all their highlights and goals on the local sports news.

LJ appeared to be an all round midfielder, more than capable of taking the game to the opposition, who weighed in with his fair share of goals and scored some stunning long range free kicks.

Did I imagine all this and if I didn't what has happened since?

Is he less capable of being an offensive player now at a higher level, is he being told to play an unambitious more defensive game, is he playing in a role not entirely suitable to him for the sake of the team or has he lost the confidence to move into the oppositions half and shoot?

interesting point and could well be the case and if it is gj has to change the system, it also could be said of

other players who have come and gone in recent times who have been prolific elsewhere but can't grasp it

at city? like trundle and maynard! they are used to a wingers and the service midfield to which just is not

happening in recent games and whatever we say it still brings us back to the midfield.

[William Stand]

Is he less capable of being an offensive player now at a higher level, is he being told to play an unambitious more defensive game, is he playing in a role not entirely suitable to him for the sake of the team or has he lost the confidence to move into the oppositions half and shoot?

A bit of all of the above, I think. Regardless of the merits of LJ I think it is safe to assume he is very much "playing to order". If you go back to league 1 days he was often criticised for the "hollywood" passes, ironic that now he is being criticised for safe passing! I think GJ knows that at this level giving the ball away in midfield can be fatal & LJ is clearly being asked to perform a "fetching & carrying" role. Having said that I posted elsewhere that he has put people through on goal with good passes at least 4 times this season... it's not his fault they failed to score!

Overall I think the connundrum is somehow we need to not be so open we get murdered (ala Ipswich, Barnsley & WBA last season) yet at the same time be creative enough to make sufficient chances. I know GJ likes to keep a winning side but i do wonder if we could be a bit more tactical in team selection - 4-4-1-1 may be best for tough away trips (& some of the big guns at home) but go with a braver formation for home games that we should be dominating.

[cider head]

Why do the signing(s) (I can only think of one that would make anyone think what you're saying being NM) mean we need a 4-4-2????? That is just ludicrous!?!? What is your argument behind this? The fact you don't think he can play up front on his own? Why can't he?? People are just guessing and thinking it is gospel.

Playing a 5 man midfield, allows more freedom for all 3 central midfielders, meaning if 2 push, 1 can sit.

It also means we can flood their midfield if needs be, pulling our most attacking midfielder back if we are struggling to cope with their midfield. But also means if we are on top, with a versatile player we can push them even further forward.

It also allows a midfielder to come and retrieve the ball off of the defensive (a la Johnson) without leaving massive gaps in the midfield, which has been happening

But most importantly it allows more creative freedom and this is what we are lacking.

With players like Noble/Trundle who have that touch of class to play defensive splitting balls, i believe Maynard will flourish.

I see 5 in midfield as a way of attacking with more quality instead of quantity of just pumping balls forward, therefore I see it as an attacking change, not defensive.

ah! i never said maynard can't play up there on his own but you know GJ will play adebola before the other strikers in a 1 man role, and thats the point i was getting at, if maynard plays up there then fair shout and that goes for akinde to, no problem with it but i don't feel GJ will play maynard as a lone striker, also i can see what playing 5 in midfield will do and no problem with that but as i said expect a forum moan in about strikers being on the bench etc. the cover thing i was saying is that you cover a player not cutting the mustard instead of just doing a straight swap in a 4-4-2 but even 4-5-1 i'd still try and fit elliott, noble and trundle along the lines, we can talk about formations all day long but the route problem is not being solved regardless of formation.

[Redhyde]

What has LJ done this season? Kept the ball better than anyone as ever, but not much in terms of creativity although had players taken their chances.... I think he plays deeper to "cover" the fact that Elliott goes forward. In a 4-4-2 he has to play deep or you get both players caught up the pitch. And certainly the step up has affected his game. In league 1 he was the 4th highest league scorer! GJ is also more cautious tactically and it's alot harder for everyone. Hence the negative wing play.

Be interesting to see a game where Elliott does nothing but sit and puts the emphasis on LJ to attack.

We sort of had that with skuse and LJ..but do you trust Skuse on his own in midfield? I don't so no wonder he still sat back.

To go 4-4-2 I think you have to have better players than we do. Major revamp. 4-5-1 allows our players to do the things they're good at without them being under pressure to do the things they aren't.

How do I know David Noble isn't fit right now? I don't. How do i know there's a problem? look at his abysmal appearance record.

I don't care about proliffic strikers, i care about team results and performances.

[bh_red]

It means back to square one and no need to buy maynard or big bad john and keeping byfield, showunmi

and even jevons.

It means covering an ineffective midfielder so he can stay on the pitch and sacrificing a 2 million pound striker

and a up and coming talented striker because they don't get the service from your ineffective midfielder not doing

the job! and your wingers come in narrow looking for the ball as your ineffective midfielder keeps playing it backwards

so your defenders think sod this lets hoof it over the midfield as the ball keeps coming back to us so we may as well try and

get it upfront. only solution is dropping this ineffective midfielder, playing someone who can play make and get the other

players playing to their strengths and show why city signed the likes of trundle and maynard and untill the problem in

midfield rectified we will never see our full potential as a team and we are 1 midfield all rounder missing from being a very good side

Sums it up perfectly for me.

4-5-1 for me is for 2 reasons.

1 - when we have played it, it's because we haven't had 2 good enough forwards.

2 - when it's played, it's more because the ineffectiveness of our central midfield because of the lack of ability of the players there, so instead of replacing said midfielders with better players, we played an extra man there, to make up for it.

Surely now that we have good enough forwards, 5 of which have got among the goals this season, it would be negative to only play one at a time, then again gloss over any midfield problems, instead of improving the quality of player in that position which would allow us to be capable of playing 4-4-2.

[Back of the net]

Sums it up perfectly for me.

4-5-1 for me is for 2 reasons.

1 - when we have played it, it's because we haven't had 2 good enough forwards.

2 - when it's played, it's more because the ineffectiveness of our central midfield because of the lack of ability of the players there, so instead of replacing said midfielders with better players, we played an extra man there, to make up for it.

Surely now that we have good enough forwards, 5 of which have got among the goals this season, it would be negative to only play one at a time, then again gloss over any midfield problems, instead of improving the quality of player in that position which would allow us to be capable of playing 4-4-2.

To work a 4-5-1 formation must be fluid.

At points it should be a 4-3-3.

If we went:-

Basso

Orr Carey Fontaine McAllister

Johnson Elliott

Noble

Maynard Trundle

Akinde

[screech]

Such a shame that we still cant find a way to get our creative players on to the pitch at the same time.

Not having a dig at Lee Johnson but, this continued play no matter what really is to the detriment of the team. He's a valuable player to have but, when you have creative players such as Noble and Trundle sitting on the bench and even completely out of the picture sometimes then you can only come to the conclusion that he's picked because of who he is not what he is doing.

A solution would be to go back to what worked last season (Sorry Marv, more carrying the midfield), I suggest that we line up something along these lines.

Basso/ Weale (whoever is in favour this week)

ORR CAREY FONTAINE McALLISTER

ELLIOTT

NOBLE JOHNSON

MAYNARD========TRUNDLE

ADEBOLA

We must assume Lee Johnson will start, but, if he didnt Mcindoe would be my choice to replace him or Wilson.

Don't want to be associated with the bashing of LJ but, it doesn't sit right that when he makes mistakes he gets the nod, but when others do he same they get dropped. I personally do not care who starts, I don't have any favourites, but, as long as selection is done fairly and we can balance creative flair with huff and puff then I'm happy.

[dezgimed]

How do I know David Noble isn't fit right now? I don't. How do i know there's a problem? look at his abysmal appearance record.

Same could be said for Williams, Murray, Akinde, Webster, Trundle etc. I don't believe theres a problem with all of them...

[Spud55]

This always intrigues me.

When LJ was at Yeovil we used to see all their highlights and goals on the local sports news.

LJ appeared to be an all round midfielder, more than capable of taking the game to the opposition, who weighed in with his fair share of goals and scored some stunning long range free kicks.

Did I imagine all this and if I didn't what has happened since?

Is he less capable of being an offensive player now at a higher level, is he being told to play an unambitious more defensive game, is he playing in a role not entirely suitable to him for the sake of the team or has he lost the confidence to move into the oppositions half and shoot?

Thats a very good point, could it be that part of Johnsons problem is the way he's being told to play, we are and have certainly seen it in McIndoe and sproule, Wilson et all who are continually tucking in under instruction and making them look fairly poor as wide players. Mabye Lj is being told to sit deep and play that role which i don't think he can play, he lacks the vision for it, when he does advance he does look decent, but he also seems to be lacking the confidence to do what we have seen him do in the past, he can play a good through ball, he doesn't have the ability of a tinnion type player to sit deep and spray stunning 40 yard balls over the pitch, but he can play a shorter ball through from an advanced position, and he does have a shot on him, can anyone remember him having a shot really this season ? as i can't i can remember him being in the right position but can't remember him actually having a go, instead trying some insanely difficult and largely poor through ball.

I think a lot of teh reason Johnson gets more stick than anyone else is because he appears undroppable, when he's playing well he can do a job and as an average to decent championship Midfielder, but he's not playing well and on current performances is a poor Championship central midfielder, and his playing badly is adversly effecting the performances of the other midfielders. Mabye subconsiously he is beginning to believe he is undroppable, no player consiously think's ah i'm not going to get dropped so i can't be bothered, but all players no matter how good do tend to drop in form when it is apparent that they aren't going to get dropped, which is what infuriates me about Johnson and his son, LJ is nowhere near as bad as he has been playing this season, but because he's still playing he's not getting better, if Gj was to drop him, for 4-5 games it can do no harm, we either stick Noble in there and the team improves and we get somewhere and Lj has to fight, and fight hard to get his place back, or we don't really improve that much, but Johnson comes back energised and begins playing as well as he can.

Gary Johnsons policy of Loyalty is all very well and good but it leads to complacency from some players and just downright annoys others, Brian Wilson has come in on many occasions, to fill all sorts of Positions and performed well, he came in for Orr last season and performed exceptionally and in my and a lot of others views better than bradley had been doing, yet as soon as Bradders is fit Willson is dropped, there is no incentive to perform when you get a chance as you will be booted out as soon as whoever you have replaced comes back. The best teams if their top players get injured but their understudy performs well for a few games will have to fight to get back in, thats the way it should work, if you get your chance and take it that shouldn't be taken off you just because you are not automatically the first choice player in that position. Basso is another example, weale is dropped for making a mistake, Basso makes probably the worst of the season against Plymouth yet starts the next game, only to make another balls up on Saturday, why does it take one c**k up from Weale yet Basso makes a worse one yet still plays the next game ?

[William Stand]

Basso is another example, weale is dropped for making a mistake, Basso makes probably the worst of the season against Plymouth yet starts the next game, only to make another balls up on Saturday, why does it take one c**k up from Weale yet Basso makes a worse one yet still plays the next game ?

The irony of this, is that when we signed Weale this place was full of posts proclaiming it another case of Johnson signing his ex Yeovil buddies..... now people complain that he favours Basso !

It's possible that with with hindsight, Johnson regrets switching the keepers so much - we now have 2 good keepers, bith with limited confidence. Having said this having now gone with Basso, I think it would only compound matters to drop him again, what happens if Weale has a mare next game ??

Based on their performances some players will get treated differently as simply the manager trusts them more - last season Wilson replace the suspended Orr & did well, but Orr got back in. To me that decision is justified as Orr was voted best full back by his peers. Similarly on the basis of thier 1st team careers with City to date, Basso will always get the benefit of the doubt over Weale. It's tough but its Pro football not the Cubs league.

[Redhyde]

Same could be said for Williams, Murray, Akinde, Webster, Trundle etc. I don't believe theres a problem with all of them...

As you well know I'm talking about non appearances consistantly over a career.

David Noble has hit 30 league games once... All selection? He really couldn't get in Barnet's team? Yeah right.

[Red_Mat]

The irony of this, is that when we signed Weale this place was full of posts proclaiming it another case of Johnson signing his ex Yeovil buddies..... now people complain that he favours Basso !

It's possible that with with hindsight, Johnson regrets switching the keepers so much - we now have 2 good keepers, bith with limited confidence. Having said this having now gone with Basso, I think it would only compound matters to drop him again, what happens if Weale has a mare next game ??

I don't believe that to be the case; I remember GJ saying when he was at Yeovil that he always believed in having two first-choice goalkeepers. He had that in Collis and Weale. It was always his intention to ensure he had competition and cover here. Remember he signed Basso initially to provide competition for Phillips, not as a direct replacement. It was only when Phillips responded badly to the challenge that GJ realised he needed to ship out Phillips and bring in someone else instead.

I do think he should have given Weale the opportunity more often when it has fallen to him, however. He hasn't really let us down and is clearly going to be as good a goalkeeper when he gets his match fitness and sharpness up.

Also, I don't remember anyone saying that GJ was signing another of his ex-Yeovil buddies when we signed Weale. I seem to remember that most people thought it was a bit of a steal to get one of the best goalkeepers in the lower divisions, who'd had a trial with West Ham, on a free transfer!

[William Stand]

Also, I don't remember anyone saying that GJ was signing another of his ex-Yeovil buddies when we signed Weale. I seem to remember that most people thought it was a bit of a steal to get one of the best goalkeepers in the lower divisions, who'd had a trial with West Ham, on a free transfer!

Futile really as we can't prove either way, but I am sure there were a fair few "more Yeovil buddy" type threads, followed by accusations that Johnson was willing for an opportunity to drop Basso to bring in Weale.

I think we're lucky to have 2 good keepers, the problem is you can't have 2 good, happy keepers. Rotation doesn't work with Goalies, I don't really care which one plays, but they have to have reasonable comfort that they will get a decent run. I think at the moment in Johnsons eyes Basso shades it because of his performances over the past couple of seasons.