To The Moaners, Doubters And Slaggers!

[red man dan]

Having read some of the comments on this forum over recent weeks, it is obvious that some feel something is wrong at the club at present,that the manager is getting things wrong, that we should be doing better than we are doing, that there is a 'problem'.....all of that is rediculous considering how far we have come in recent years......BUT we have not come so far that being 13th in the CHAMPIONSHIP after ten games (and two points of the play offs) is a 'problem'.

Some of you should have a good think about where it is you see our club as a footballing force.....and then think about how you have calculated it. WE HAVE SPENT ONE SEASON IN THIS DIVISION.

To think that there is a problem because we have lost to Sheffield Utd, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Birmingham City just highlights how rediculously far ahead of themselves some fans at this club have become. do you honestly think because we had one fantastic season last year, having spent ONE season in this tier of english football, that we should be expecting anything else other than to find it extremely tough against such opposition?

Over the last 6 seasons, Birmingham have spent 5 of them in the Premier League and one in the 2nd tier, Sheffield Utd 1 in the Prem and 5 in the 2nd tier (5 of which they finished in the top 8), and Wolves 1 in the Prem and five in the 2nd tier(4 of which they finished in the top 8)......Bristol City have spent ONE season in the 2nd tier of english football, and the other FIVE in the 3rd tier....

For me i am delighted to playing them at all, so how we as a club have found a right to complain about how we are losing to them is beyond me, why should it be any different? Oh yeah, i forgot we had ONE amazing season.

Lets get some realism shall we, at present we are not even close to being on the same playing field as such clubs, it is a mirracle we did so last year and testament to what an awesome job GJ and players did last season.

You may not like to hear it, BUT, these clubs are FAR 'bigger' than we are in every sense, due to their recent history.

Our average gate in the last 6 years had not once gone above 13,000 untill last season,in the same period, Birmingham and Wolves had consistently averaged over 21,000 and in many years been around 26-28,000, Sheff Utd had always been above 18,000 and in the past two seasons averaged 25,000 and 30,000.

We ARE on the right track to getting on the same level, that is purely down to GJ and SL and the players they bring to this club. But we should not think we are anywhere close just yet. That does not mean we should not aim high, last year showed us it CAN be done, but with realism, we should NOT expect it to be done. How we can be moaning about the current manager and situation is incredible and very frustrating, seriosuly what on earth would you moaners be pleased with?

I believe we can replicate in some form what we did last season, but that will not be done by beating the likes of the above. We as a team with this manager are capable of beating teams of similar, and in my opinion due to the manager, teams of a higher stature than us. We have NO right to be beating those so far ahead of us just yet, and if and when we do, we should damn well enjoy it, like i 'hope' we did last season. However when we lose to them, we should accept it and NOT look for scapegoats, slag the manager, slag the players, and throw our toys out of the pram. The problem in losing to these teams does not lie in the managers decisions, the managers tactics, the players he picked etc etc, it lies in the fact that at present,like it or not, they are better teams and bigger clubs....however given some time, something GJ must SURELY have earnt, he clearly has the ability to allow this club to one day mix it with the bigger sides.

Rome was not built in a day, so please lets not rip down the foundations that have been built by believing it can or should be.....

[cinker]

Having read some of the comments on this forum over recent weeks, it is obvious that some feel something is wrong at the club at present,that the manager is getting things wrong, that we should be doing better than we are doing, that there is a 'problem'.....all of that is rediculous considering how far we have come in recent years......BUT we have not come so far that being 13th in the CHAMPIONSHIP after ten games (and two points of the play offs) is a 'problem'.

Some of you should have a good think about where it is you see our club as a footballing force.....and then think about how you have calculated it. WE HAVE SPENT ONE SEASON IN THIS DIVISION.

To think that there is a problem because we have lost to Sheffield Utd, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Birmingham City just highlights how rediculously far ahead of themselves some fans at this club have become. do you honestly think because we had one fantastic season last year, having spent ONE season in this tier of english football, that we should be expecting anything else other than to find it extremely tough against such opposition?

Over the last 6 seasons, Birmingham have spent 5 of them in the Premier League and one in the 2nd tier, Sheffield Utd 1 in the Prem and 5 in the 2nd tier (5 of which they finished in the top 8), and Wolves 1 in the Prem and five in the 2nd tier(4 of which they finished in the top 8)......Bristol City have spent ONE season in the 2nd tier of english football, and the other FIVE in the 3rd tier....

For me i am delighted to playing them at all, so how we as a club have found a right to complain about how we are losing to them is beyond me, why should it be any different? Oh yeah, i forgot we had ONE amazing season.

Lets get some realism shall we, at present we are not even close to being on the same playing field as such clubs, it is a mirracle we did so last year and testament to what an awesome job GJ and players did last season.

You may not like to hear it, BUT, these clubs are FAR 'bigger' than we are in every sense, due to their recent history.

Our average gate in the last 6 years had not once gone above 13,000 untill last season,in the same period, Birmingham and Wolves had consistently averaged over 21,000 and in many years been around 26-28,000, Sheff Utd had always been above 18,000 and in the past two seasons averaged 25,000 and 30,000.

We ARE on the right track to getting on the same level, that is purely down to GJ and SL and the players they bring to this club. But we should not think we are anywhere close just yet. That does not mean we should not aim high, last year showed us it CAN be done, but with realism, we should NOT expect it to be done. How we can be moaning about the current manager and situation is incredible and very frustrating, seriosuly what on earth would you moaners be pleased with?

I believe we can replicate in some form what we did last season, but that will not be done by beating the likes of the above. We as a team with this manager are capable of beating teams of similar, and in my opinion due to the manager, teams of a higher stature than us. We have NO right to be beating those so far ahead of us just yet, and if and when we do, we should damn well enjoy it, like i 'hope' we did last season. However when we lose to them, we should accept it and NOT look for scapegoats, slag the manager, slag the players, and throw our toys out of the pram. The problem in losing to these teams does not lie in the managers decisions, the managers tactics, the players he picked etc etc, it lies in the fact that at present,like it or not, they are better teams and bigger clubs....however given some time, something GJ must SURELY have earnt, he clearly has the ability to allow this club to one day mix it with the bigger sides.

Rome was not built in a day, so please lets not rip down the foundations that have been built by believing it can or should be.....

Haven't I read this before

[red man dan]

Maybe so,but not from me, shall we now go and pick out the 'thousansds' of moans and groans we hear again, and again and again?

If they continue, as i have no doubt they will, then posts such as mine will also continue to surface.

[cinker]

Maybe so,but not from me, shall we now go and pick out the 'thousansds' of moans and groans we hear again, and again and again?

If they continue, as i have no doubt they will, then posts such as mine will also continue to surface.

When we react to them they gain momentum. The quickest and surest way to diffuse them is to ignore them and they will fizzle out.

If nobody joins them in their sandbox or leaves them alone in their pram they eventally p*&ss in their own diapers..

[bristol bell boy]

ok red man dan you have a go at all the moaners and

slaggers and quote its all right because we have been beaten

by larger clubs and GJ can do no wrong.

Well on the field its eleven v eleven and if GJ does not pick

his best players we have a right to be concerned and in these

circumstances we have a right to complain.

Talent wins games not just energy so when we see more

of trundle and noble we may stop moaning!

[big p]

Yawn yawn yawn yawn yawn yawn yawn

[big p]

ok red man dan you have a go at all the moaners and

slaggers and quote its all right because we have been beaten

by larger clubs and GJ can do no wrong.

Well on the field its eleven v eleven and if GJ does not pick

his best players we have a right to be concerned and in these

circumstances we have a right to complain.

Talent wins games not just energy so when we see more

of trundle and noble we may stop moaning!

Bravo give that man a cigar.Without talent we are just a long ball team.Heres his tactics this season,play with no width until were 2.0 down and then bring on trundle.how many times has he done this season.Its as if hes trying to prove trundle is not good enough if he don't change the game.How about starting with trundle and Noble until were 2.0 up then take them off for LJ and Dele.

[red man dan]

ok red man dan you have a go at all the moaners and

slaggers and quote its all right because we have been beaten

by larger clubs and GJ can do no wrong.

Well on the field its eleven v eleven and if GJ does not pick

his best players we have a right to be concerned and in these

circumstances we have a right to complain.

Talent wins games not just energy so when we see more

of trundle and noble we may stop moaning!

Exactly when will YOU see more of noble and trundle than GJ does? he is their manager, he sees them train every week, every day. When have you seen them? When they come off the bench? It is often alot easier to come on and perform well under no pressure(such as when your team is already 2-0 down) and when you are fresh, than it is to start the match and compete for the WHOLE game, which is essentially what any manager should be thinking about when picking his STARTING eleven.But of course, you know more about his players than GJ does, you know more about what has happened in training during the week than he does, you know more about the study HE has made about the up coming opposition than he does, really you should be manager.

Noble and trundle are quality players, with possibly more natrual talent than some of those who start above them, however that does NOT in itself mean they are the correct choice to start any given match.

[bully]

It is often alot easier to come on and perform well under no pressure(such as when your team is already 2-0 down) and when you are fresh, than it is to start the match and compete for the WHOLE game, which is essentially what any manager should be thinking about when picking his STARTING eleven.

Dare I say it, being 2-0 down at home and being brought on to change things is a bit of pressure isn't it?

[big p]

Exactly when will YOU see more of noble and trundle than GJ does? he is their manager, he sees them train every week, every day. When have you seen them? When they come off the bench? It is often alot easier to come on and perform well under no pressure(such as when your team is already 2-0 down) and when you are fresh, than it is to start the match and compete for the WHOLE game, which is essentially what any manager should be thinking about when picking his STARTING eleven.But of course, you know more about his players than GJ does, you know more about what has happened in training during the week than he does, you know more about the study HE has made about the up coming opposition than he does, really you should be manager.

Noble and trundle are quality players, with possibly more natrual talent than some of those who start above them, however that does NOT in itself mean they are the correct choice to start any given match.

So what about the players who are not performing in the starting 11,they should be in the team because they play better in training,there is no pressure in training, theres alot more pressure when your 2.0 at home.I cant defend the decision on why trundle doesn't start every game.Has Trundle and Maynard every started up front,and bring dele on as an impact palyer.

[bristol bell boy]

Exactly when will YOU see more of noble and trundle than GJ does? he is their manager, he sees them train every week, every day. When have you seen them? When they come off the bench? It is often alot easier to come on and perform well under no pressure(such as when your team is already 2-0 down) and when you are fresh, than it is to start the match and compete for the WHOLE game, which is essentially what any manager should be thinking about when picking his STARTING eleven.But of course, you know more about his players than GJ does, you know more about what has happened in training during the week than he does, you know more about the study HE has made about the up coming opposition than he does, really you should be manager.

Noble and trundle are quality players, with possibly more natrual talent than some of those who start above them, however that does NOT in itself mean they are the correct choice to start any given match.

your quite right I do not see city train,but I do watch all home

games from the dolman and me and lots of others can spot

our talented players [sat on the bench]while our super fit

players cotrive to get us a 2 nil deficit,and our talented

players get twenty min's to save us.

yes GJ does get a dossier of the team were playing against

and pick out the players we must stop,but maybe if he

played our skillfull players [certainly at home]they may

be more worried about how there going to stop us.

Sorry to use Cole Skuse as an example but hes a very

fit player but unlike truns or noble hes not going to win

you the game with a cracker of a shot,a fantasic pass or

just a brilliant flick.

Forgot to add junior johnson as well fit but no end product.

[london red]

Exactly when will YOU see more of noble and trundle than GJ does? he is their manager, he sees them train every week, every day. When have you seen them? When they come off the bench? It is often alot easier to come on and perform well under no pressure(such as when your team is already 2-0 down) and when you are fresh, than it is to start the match and compete for the WHOLE game, which is essentially what any manager should be thinking about when picking his STARTING eleven.

As Trundle has proved many times. Spot on mate.

Trundle wasn't under any pressure when he came on in the Plymouth game because no-one expected him to turn the game around- they were hoping he would, but he wouldn't have been blamed if we had lost. He seems to play this role better than the starting role- a few times last season, he was picked to start after some promising sub appearances and then was disappointing.

[red man dan]

your quite right I do not see city train,but I do watch all home

games from the dolman and me and lots of others can spot

our talented players [sat on the bench]while our super fit

players cotrive to get us a 2 nil deficit,and our talented

players get twenty min's to save us.

yes GJ does get a dossier of the team were playing against

and pick out the players we must stop,but maybe if he

played our skillfull players [certainly at home]they may

be more worried about how there going to stop us.

Sorry to use Cole Skuse as an example but hes a very

fit player but unlike truns or noble hes not going to win

you the game with a cracker of a shot,a fantasic pass or

just a brilliant flick.

Forgot to add junior johnson as well fit but no end product.

no, but he and a fitter more robust all round team also is not going to be found completely wanting by the class opposition that can be found in the likes of Brum, wolves or sheff utd and lets not forget plymouth are on a roll and have won 4 in 5 and are 5th. Trundle wonders in and out of games, being on occasions when he is in the game pure class, however against such opposition you can not be a player short for any length of time. Noble is not a super fit player either, he is very intricate and skillful but against teams that are both that and extremely fit, we would struggle even more so if starting these two at present. Who's to say we would not have been dead and burried at Sheff Utd by half time had we started with them? well of course we cant answer that, but its fair to assume that would have been a genuine possibility, same at wolves. Home to Plymouth, yes more of a good call to start with such players as we were the home team and should have taken the game to them, but as said they are in a rich vein of form and its all to easy in hindsight to say we should have done this or that. Personally i trust GJ to make the decisions and if they are wrong i trust him to see this and at least get the chance to remedy them before i start to get the knives out. How about a bit of trust? a bit of time to sort a few bad results out? has he not earned that right with what he has done so far?

He is not and should not be free from critisim, but surely he has earnt the right for us as fans to give him a chance to sort it out before we immediately jump down his throat throwing critisisms at him left right and centre. We have had bad spells under him before, little blips, bad results and who can say that thus far he has NOT sorted them out?

He has sorted things before, i think he will again.

[red man dan]

your quite right I do not see city train,but I do watch all home

games from the dolman and me and lots of others can spot

our talented players [sat on the bench]while our super fit

players cotrive to get us a 2 nil deficit,and our talented

players get twenty min's to save us.

yes GJ does get a dossier of the team were playing against

and pick out the players we must stop,but maybe if he

played our skillfull players [certainly at home]they may

be more worried about how there going to stop us.

Sorry to use Cole Skuse as an example but hes a very

fit player but unlike truns or noble hes not going to win

you the game with a cracker of a shot,a fantasic pass or

just a brilliant flick.

Forgot to add junior johnson as well fit but no end product.

no, but he and a fitter more robust all round team also is not going to be found completely wanting by the class opposition that can be found in the likes of Brum, wolves or sheff utd and lets not forget plymouth are on a roll and have won 4 in 5 and are 5th. Trundle wonders in and out of games, being on occasions when he is in the game pure class, however against such opposition you can not be a player short for any length of time. Noble is not a super fit player either, he is very intricate and skillful but against teams that are both that and extremely fit, we would struggle even more so if starting these two at present. Who's to say we would not have been dead and burried at Sheff Utd by half time had we started with them? well of course we cant answer that, but its fair to assume that would have been a genuine possibility, same at wolves. Home to Plymouth, yes more of a good call to start with such players as we were the home team and should have taken the game to them, but as said they are in a rich vein of form and its all to easy in hindsight to say we should have done this or that. Personally i trust GJ to make the decisions and if they are wrong i trust him to see this and at least get the chance to remedy them before i start to get the knives out. How about a bit of trust? a bit of time to sort a few bad results out? has he not earned that right with what he has done so far?

He is not and should not be free from critisim, but surely he has earnt the right for us as fans to give him a chance to sort it out before we immediately jump down his throat throwing critisisms at him left right and centre. We have had bad spells under him before, little blips, bad results and who can say that thus far he has NOT sorted them out?

He has sorted things before, i think he will again.

[red at heart]

Having read some of the comments on this forum over recent weeks, it is obvious that some feel something is wrong at the club at present,that the manager is getting things wrong, that we should be doing better than we are doing, that there is a 'problem'.....all of that is rediculous considering how far we have come in recent years......BUT we have not come so far that being 13th in the CHAMPIONSHIP after ten games (and two points of the play offs) is a 'problem'.

Some of you should have a good think about where it is you see our club as a footballing force.....and then think about how you have calculated it. WE HAVE SPENT ONE SEASON IN THIS DIVISION.

To think that there is a problem because we have lost to Sheffield Utd, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Birmingham City just highlights how rediculously far ahead of themselves some fans at this club have become. do you honestly think because we had one fantastic season last year, having spent ONE season in this tier of english football, that we should be expecting anything else other than to find it extremely tough against such opposition?

Over the last 6 seasons, Birmingham have spent 5 of them in the Premier League and one in the 2nd tier, Sheffield Utd 1 in the Prem and 5 in the 2nd tier (5 of which they finished in the top 8), and Wolves 1 in the Prem and five in the 2nd tier(4 of which they finished in the top 8)......Bristol City have spent ONE season in the 2nd tier of english football, and the other FIVE in the 3rd tier....

For me i am delighted to playing them at all, so how we as a club have found a right to complain about how we are losing to them is beyond me, why should it be any different? Oh yeah, i forgot we had ONE amazing season.

Lets get some realism shall we, at present we are not even close to being on the same playing field as such clubs, it is a mirracle we did so last year and testament to what an awesome job GJ and players did last season.

You may not like to hear it, BUT, these clubs are FAR 'bigger' than we are in every sense, due to their recent history.

Our average gate in the last 6 years had not once gone above 13,000 untill last season,in the same period, Birmingham and Wolves had consistently averaged over 21,000 and in many years been around 26-28,000, Sheff Utd had always been above 18,000 and in the past two seasons averaged 25,000 and 30,000.

We ARE on the right track to getting on the same level, that is purely down to GJ and SL and the players they bring to this club. But we should not think we are anywhere close just yet. That does not mean we should not aim high, last year showed us it CAN be done, but with realism, we should NOT expect it to be done. How we can be moaning about the current manager and situation is incredible and very frustrating, seriosuly what on earth would you moaners be pleased with?

I believe we can replicate in some form what we did last season, but that will not be done by beating the likes of the above. We as a team with this manager are capable of beating teams of similar, and in my opinion due to the manager, teams of a higher stature than us. We have NO right to be beating those so far ahead of us just yet, and if and when we do, we should damn well enjoy it, like i 'hope' we did last season. However when we lose to them, we should accept it and NOT look for scapegoats, slag the manager, slag the players, and throw our toys out of the pram. The problem in losing to these teams does not lie in the managers decisions, the managers tactics, the players he picked etc etc, it lies in the fact that at present,like it or not, they are better teams and bigger clubs....however given some time, something GJ must SURELY have earnt, he clearly has the ability to allow this club to one day mix it with the bigger sides.

Rome was not built in a day, so please lets not rip down the foundations that have been built by believing it can or should be.....

very well said mate with u on that one all the way well said

[Seend Red]

Having read some of the comments on this forum over recent weeks, it is obvious that some feel something is wrong at the club at present,that the manager is getting things wrong, that we should be doing better than we are doing, that there is a 'problem'.....all of that is rediculous considering how far we have come in recent years......BUT we have not come so far that being 13th in the CHAMPIONSHIP after ten games (and two points of the play offs) is a 'problem'.

Some of you should have a good think about where it is you see our club as a footballing force.....and then think about how you have calculated it. WE HAVE SPENT ONE SEASON IN THIS DIVISION.

To think that there is a problem because we have lost to Sheffield Utd, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Birmingham City just highlights how rediculously far ahead of themselves some fans at this club have become. do you honestly think because we had one fantastic season last year, having spent ONE season in this tier of english football, that we should be expecting anything else other than to find it extremely tough against such opposition?

Over the last 6 seasons, Birmingham have spent 5 of them in the Premier League and one in the 2nd tier, Sheffield Utd 1 in the Prem and 5 in the 2nd tier (5 of which they finished in the top 8), and Wolves 1 in the Prem and five in the 2nd tier(4 of which they finished in the top 8)......Bristol City have spent ONE season in the 2nd tier of english football, and the other FIVE in the 3rd tier....

For me i am delighted to playing them at all, so how we as a club have found a right to complain about how we are losing to them is beyond me, why should it be any different? Oh yeah, i forgot we had ONE amazing season.

Lets get some realism shall we, at present we are not even close to being on the same playing field as such clubs, it is a mirracle we did so last year and testament to what an awesome job GJ and players did last season.

You may not like to hear it, BUT, these clubs are FAR 'bigger' than we are in every sense, due to their recent history.

Our average gate in the last 6 years had not once gone above 13,000 untill last season,in the same period, Birmingham and Wolves had consistently averaged over 21,000 and in many years been around 26-28,000, Sheff Utd had always been above 18,000 and in the past two seasons averaged 25,000 and 30,000.

We ARE on the right track to getting on the same level, that is purely down to GJ and SL and the players they bring to this club. But we should not think we are anywhere close just yet. That does not mean we should not aim high, last year showed us it CAN be done, but with realism, we should NOT expect it to be done. How we can be moaning about the current manager and situation is incredible and very frustrating, seriosuly what on earth would you moaners be pleased with?

I believe we can replicate in some form what we did last season, but that will not be done by beating the likes of the above. We as a team with this manager are capable of beating teams of similar, and in my opinion due to the manager, teams of a higher stature than us. We have NO right to be beating those so far ahead of us just yet, and if and when we do, we should damn well enjoy it, like i 'hope' we did last season. However when we lose to them, we should accept it and NOT look for scapegoats, slag the manager, slag the players, and throw our toys out of the pram. The problem in losing to these teams does not lie in the managers decisions, the managers tactics, the players he picked etc etc, it lies in the fact that at present,like it or not, they are better teams and bigger clubs....however given some time, something GJ must SURELY have earnt, he clearly has the ability to allow this club to one day mix it with the bigger sides.

Rome was not built in a day, so please lets not rip down the foundations that have been built by believing it can or should be.....

Performance's are more of an issue than the results for me. I don't mind City losing if they've given it a good go and given a decent account of themselfs thus this is where the current problem is.

We're coming out of the blocks so slowly and then putting the effort in when the damage is already done. Sheffield was even worse as we were poor for 90 minutes.

It isn't about happy clappers or moaners. Let's not label everyone.

As it stands we're playing poorly and look a shadow of the side from the gutsy one I watched last season,we look like a side that will struggle this season. Sorry for being concerned and raising this on a forum.

I can say 'I believe' until I'm blue in the face but it dosen't change the fact the players obviously don't at the moment. Thats what matters.

[mcbcfc]

My only problem is that the team has not progressed from last year, I'm not expecting us to compete with the financial clout of the wolves, birmingham, reading etc. Nor am i expecting us to be in the top two but a top half finish should be attainable.

But I would like to see the squad evolving, have we really replaced the players who left with anything better? Webster isn't better than Vasko, Williams is no better than Carle, Akinde is no better than Enoch (although I'm sure he's one for the future but not now) and maynard with the style we're playing we may as well have Byfield out there (althought with service i'm sure he would score goals)

It's just frustrating when other clubs seem to improve their team and continue to (Howard to Sheff. Utd. and Edwards to Wolves in the last week) and we don't. I'm not a general moaner and don't want instant success just a bit of progression.

[SJC]

Exactly when will YOU see more of noble and trundle than GJ does? he is their manager, he sees them train every week, every day. When have you seen them? When they come off the bench? It is often alot easier to come on and perform well under no pressure(such as when your team is already 2-0 down) and when you are fresh, than it is to start the match and compete for the WHOLE game, which is essentially what any manager should be thinking about when picking his STARTING eleven.But of course, you know more about his players than GJ does, you know more about what has happened in training during the week than he does, you know more about the study HE has made about the up coming opposition than he does, really you should be manager.

I believe what this is known as is 'hitting the nail on the head.'

It never ceases to amaze how people think they know Johnson's job better than he does.

Everyone can make observations and of course that is what this forum is for, if you have watched enough football then you are are in a decent place to make reasoned judgement. However, as you very rightly point out, it is Johnsons job to monitor these players, train them and play a system that best suits his personnel. It's very easy for someone to comment off the back of a run of bad results that those who do not feature, Trundle, Noble, Brooker, Williams etc, are the answer. It is also incredibly interesting to note how Trundle has been elevated to the status of saviour after he faced so much criticism last year, criticism that has now, not surprisingly, shifted to Nicky Maynard.

[cinker]

It seems we are getting to the age old discussion. we appear to have one of the most solid defences. We have apparently strengthened our forwards who cannot prove themselves without quality service. So, the backbone of the team is based "on the weakest link" which is the midfield defending and giving quality service. Yes, GJ has to fix it, there is nothing we say on here that has little influence. Its up to GJ, lets measure over the next 10 games.

[Barman]

On the whole I agree with you, particularly about where some people seem to think this club should be at the moment. It's incredible to think that it was LESS THAN three years ago that we were rock bottom of League One having just lost nine on the bounce. The strides that the club have made since then have been nothing short of miraculous and are completely down to the staff we are lucky enough to have at the club. After so many years in the wilderness I'm still enjoying the novelty of being in this league, let alone challenging to go even further.

It's also fair to say that the Championship is probably stronger than it was last time round and it's really unrealistic of people to expect us to be competing on a level playing field with the likes of Birmingham, Wolves, Sheff U, Reading, Derby and possibly QPR. You could feasably even add the underachieving Watford, Charlton and Ipswich to that list.

However, people have got every right to debate team selection particularly after a little run of bad results. To be competing against the likes of the above teams we need players who can make things happen and when you see players like Lee Trundle and David Noble struggling to even make the bench it is a little frustrating. I take the point about the manager seeing them day in day out, and I also take the point of issues over fitness but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be up for debate. Personally I would like to see Trundle given a run in the side, even possibly on the left if not down the middle.

[red man dan]

Performance's are more of an issue than the results for me. I don't mind City losing if they've given it a good go and given a decent account of themselfs thus this is where the current problem is.

We're coming out of the blocks so slowly and then putting the effort in when the damage is already done. Sheffield was even worse as we were poor for 90 minutes.

It isn't about happy clappers or moaners. Let's not label everyone.

As it stands we're playing poorly and look a shadow of the side from the gutsy one I watched last season,we look like a side that will struggle this season. Sorry for being concerned and raising this on a forum.

I can say 'I believe' until I'm blue in the face but it dosen't change the fact the players obviously don't at the moment. Thats what matters.

And this post makes my point. It is decent, realistic and fair.You are raising concerns without finding the need to slag the manager off, scapegoat a player or shout about tactics, starting line-ups and anything else that would be just too EASY too grab hold of without having to back it up with any real proof. You have no reason what so ever to apologise for being 'concerned', but some of those who have come on here without any justification for their incesent moaning, who simply latch onto 'anything' that 'might' be a reason we are losing and then blame that on the manager I'm my opinion certainly DO.

I know fans of other clubs that would find it absolutely incredible that Bristol City fans are finding anything what so ever to moan about regarding GJ and the management of this club, given the grander scale of things that have happened to us over the last two seasons. We moaned for years and years about 'smaller' clubs taking the piss out of us, moving above us in the football leagues, about being a sleeping giant, being the big fish in the little pond....well now we are NOT that club anymore, we went to the Play off finals at wembley and were one game away from the premier league, we are STILL playing much bigger clubs than ourselves in front of much much bigger crouds at much much better stadiums yet STILL, STILL people are moaning, and groaning and finding fault whenever they possibly can with a manager who FINALLY put us where we longed to be for so long.

Quite simply i find that REDICULOUS and by doing so those people are offering GJ not an ounce of gratitude for what he has done for this club. Gratitude would be holding one's tounge for a bit longer when things are not quite going to plan. Unfortunately it would seem many have made their own plan for us this season, one that is in reality out of our reach, unless we perform the mirracles of last season.....that i think is unfortunately too much to ask for.

[RED4LIFE]

Red Dan Man, I agree with almost everything you have posted on this thread, especially about who knows the players better.

I don't think I am a so called 'happy-clapper', I think I am a realist when it comes to football and City in particular. I wouldnt tell a(successful and experienced) professional football manager how to do his job anymore than I would tell a surgeon how to perform an operation, as I don't have a fine understanding of how it works.

Yes, we arent performing as well as we did last season, but that doesnt mean its all going down the pan. All clubs have dips in form, and to be mid-table in a league we only rose to be in last season is still a damn good achievement so far.

If GJ played Trundle (who I personally think should start more games) and Noble and whoever else, and we continued with our poor form, then what? The moaners would just find something else to find fault with.

Lets not forget, it was only 3 years ago we were bottom of league 1.

[Br1stolCityBoy]

no, but he and a fitter more robust all round team also is not going to be found completely wanting by the class opposition that can be found in the likes of Brum, wolves or sheff utd and lets not forget plymouth are on a roll and have won 4 in 5 and are 5th. Trundle wonders in and out of games, being on occasions when he is in the game pure class, however against such opposition you can not be a player short for any length of time. Noble is not a super fit player either, he is very intricate and skillful but against teams that are both that and extremely fit, we would struggle even more so if starting these two at present. Who's to say we would not have been dead and burried at Sheff Utd by half time had we started with them? well of course we cant answer that, but its fair to assume that would have been a genuine possibility, same at wolves. Home to Plymouth, yes more of a good call to start with such players as we were the home team and should have taken the game to them, but as said they are in a rich vein of form and its all to easy in hindsight to say we should have done this or that. Personally i trust GJ to make the decisions and if they are wrong i trust him to see this and at least get the chance to remedy them before i start to get the knives out. How about a bit of trust? a bit of time to sort a few bad results out? has he not earned that right with what he has done so far?

He is not and should not be free from critisim, but surely he has earnt the right for us as fans to give him a chance to sort it out before we immediately jump down his throat throwing critisisms at him left right and centre. We have had bad spells under him before, little blips, bad results and who can say that thus far he has NOT sorted them out?

He has sorted things before, i think he will again.

Yes we can answer that. DN and LT were absolutely brilliant against Sheff Utd at the end of last season and their form with a few others was why we made it to the Play off final, and that was without the help of Johnson junior.

[Tunley Legend]

Performance's are more of an issue than the results for me. I don't mind City losing if they've given it a good go and given a decent account of themselfs thus this is where the current problem is.

We're coming out of the blocks so slowly and then putting the effort in when the damage is already done. Sheffield was even worse as we were poor for 90 minutes.

It isn't about happy clappers or moaners. Let's not label everyone.

As it stands we're playing poorly and look a shadow of the side from the gutsy one I watched last season,we look like a side that will struggle this season. Sorry for being concerned and raising this on a forum.

I can say 'I believe' until I'm blue in the face but it dosen't change the fact the players obviously don't at the moment. Thats what matters.

Good post. I wouldn't mind betting that not one of the people having a pop at the moaners/slaggers etc. travelled 400 miles round trip to watch a team get beaten without so much as mustering a whimper on Saturday. A team that had only one tactic going forward - hoofball - whilst footballing talent such as Noble and Trundle were having a lovely day out watching the match. It makes me laugh that you people feel you have to inform me what Gary Johnson has achieved and with what players. That is all fine and I understand it perfectly but when I make significant commitments affecting my time, money and family like I did on Saturday I have to admit that I do expect more than to see Orr, Carey, Fontaine and McAllister HOOF the ball up to Sheffield's centre half and then watch him head the ball straight back again for the best part of 90 minutes. Please accept my apologies if expecting the side to play a bit of football, regardless of the result, is a gross exageration of realistic expectations.

Perhaps a football forum is not the place to vent one's frustrations when you have made a commitment to your team and they have dished up a very poor performance that included an opening goal that made both Basso and Lee Johnson look like Sunday Morning PUB players - perhaps next time it would be more constructive if I and 650 others gave Gary Johnson an earful at the match to get rid of our frustration.

[bh_red]

Having read some of the comments on this forum over recent weeks, it is obvious that some feel something is wrong at the club at present,that the manager is getting things wrong, that we should be doing better than we are doing, that there is a 'problem'.....all of that is rediculous considering how far we have come in recent years......BUT we have not come so far that being 13th in the CHAMPIONSHIP after ten games (and two points of the play offs) is a 'problem'.

rubbish....perhaps you should read the website, read the papers.........Johnson see's it at a problem, McIndoe two weeks ago saw it as a problem, SO IF THEY see it as a problem, then how about the fact that perhaps people such as yourself are showing an lack of ambtion, and the rest of us "moaners, Doubters and slaggers" may have a point.

It doesn't matter where we were 2 seasons ago, the Bar was set last season and the Chairman, Manager and Players have clearly stated that they wanted to go one better this season, however that's not proving the case this season, right now we aren't looking anywhere good enough to make another promotion push, everyone knows that we are going to have games such as Brum and Wolves are not going to result in Great Results, lets be honest, how many points did we take off West Brom and Hull? Of Course we should be able to Compete with them though, How did we finish last season compared to Sheff and Wolves

It's the likes of Plymouth at Home we should be beat, the 3 draws against Plymouth, QPR and Derby were dropped points and games we should have either never been in a lose or should have killed them off when we had the Chance, 1st half against Plymouth we tried our best to throw the game away, and QPR and Derby may have spent big money but over the course of the 90mins both teams where there for the taking, but weren't finished off.

Right now the team ISN'T GOOD enough as a whole, but is only one or two players short of having a serious push, what makes it annoying is that it's the same positions as last season, RIGHT WING, CENTRAL MIDFIELD (central midfielder is actually weaker that 2nd half of last season)

Some people may be happy with mid-table this season, because last season was so GREAT, but I can assure you that the management and a team would totally disagree with you.

You may not like some of us "moaners, doubters and slaggers" but are views are only the same as the manager.....still i'd like you to see Gary's reaction if you told him you'd be happy with midtable this season

[greenun]

Quite simply i find that REDICULOUS and by doing so those people are offering GJ not an ounce of gratitude for what he has done for this club. Gratitude would be holding one's tounge for a bit longer when things are not quite going to plan. Unfortunately it would seem many have made their own plan for us this season, one that is in reality out of our reach, unless we perform the mirracles of last season.....that i think is unfortunately too much to ask for.

Oh, please! You have every right to defend our manager and praise his excellent achievements since September 2005, but don't accuse members of this forum of not having any gratitude with your pocket psychology and if you have to resort to caps to emphasise a point, at least run a spellcheck first.

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth. Thanks to Gary and Keith Millen, last season City were competitive in the majority of matches and this combiined with fantastic energy levels and workrate saw us through to the play-off final where we lost by a whisker.

This season the edge has deserted us and many players have fallen far short of expectations and some don't appear to have any room for improvement.

Last season we built a great platform to move this club forward and at present it's being wasted by poor tactics and poor personnel which will only change with player recruitment.

Gary Johnson can move his pieces around the board as often as he likes, but in my opinion only new signings will reinvigorate this campaign. He can choose to continue with the same squad, but with a lack of confidence and ability clearly evident could see City accelerate backwards, leaving us in an avoidable relegation scrap.

[red man dan]

rubbish....perhaps you should read the website, read the papers.........Johnson see's it at a problem, McIndoe two weeks ago saw it as a problem, SO IF THEY see it as a problem, then how about the fact that perhaps people such as yourself are showing an lack of ambtion, and the rest of us "moaners, Doubters and slaggers" may have a point.

Perhaps YOU should 'read' all of my posts made on this thread.....as it would appear you haven't. If you had you would see that i AM aware that all is not rosey at our club and with our team and players at the moment(this 'moment' being a VERY small period of time). However i do not for one second believe this has warranted the abuse that has been levelled at the manager. As i said before, he has endured bad results before, endured blips and poor form and EACH and EVERY time he has come through and turned things around, i believe he will again. Why should he be subject to abuse and a lack of trust whilst he is in the process of doing so????

Sure, raise valid points, raise vaild concerns but why do so in a manner that slags off and abuses a man who's guidance has taken us to a level that allows YOU to believe we can compete in this division.

Does he deserve that?

As for aiming high or low i have not at any point mentioned where my thoughts lie regarding where i think we should finish, so i am not sure where you have got your opinion that i would be happy with a Mid-table finish.....

[red man dan]

Oh, please! You have every right to defend our manager and praise his excellent achievements since September 2005, but don't accuse members of this forum of not having any gratitude with your pocket psychology and if you have to resort to caps to emphasise a point, at least run a spellcheck first.

Do you want to use a spellcheck aswell then my friend?

I think the word you were looking for was capitals was it not?

[greenun]

Do you want to use a spellcheck aswell then my friend?

I think the word you were looking for was capitals was it not?

'Caps' is an acceptable term, thank you.

[red man dan]

'Caps' is an acceptable term, thank you.

No, thank you, you have learned me.