sunningdalered Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Playing Devil's Advocate here but... why does everyone think that Watford will be that tough tomorrow anyhow? They've just appointed the cheapest possible manager they could get away with who is only 35 and with no first team coaching, let alone management, experience. Before saturday they'd not won in 6 league games, losing five. And as for the 'new manager bounce'; who did Watford beat at the weekend? It was QPR, who'd just appointed Paulo Sousa as manager and who were on a much better run of form than the Hornets are. Rangers had beaten Birmingham and Cardiff, and drawn with Reading whilst Watford were getting pumped by the likes of Blackpool and Swansea. Now, that could mean Watford were better, or that the new gaffer arriving actually unsettled them. Now if QPR (who's squad is filled with much more quality than Waford's) cannot boost themselves up enough to impress a two-times Champion's League winner who will be deciding their future then how do you think Watford will react to having to impress someone who was pretty much unheard of till he go he job today? Just stirring the pot... Nice try!!! TBH, I don't think its a question of how much they've got to prove (to their new manager, themselves, elton or whoever!) - its more a question of how we come out and play. Even if watford are buzzing they will only be mediocre - they don't have the class of a wolves, bham or reading - so, if we can get our s**t together there's no reason why we can't win comfortably. This is a game where we really shouldnt be fearing the opposition, but instead concentrating on our own shape and patterns of play. 2 days isn't very long to make significant improvements though is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 I think it's one of those gaems that is a must win but not at the same time. If we are really serious about a push for the playoffs or better we do really have to win, as otherwise the run of games we have against relatively easy opposition could just continue like we have started, a win here and there. If we win it could easily with the run of games we have be the start of a good run. But even if we don't win it's not the end of the world and we should still be able to pick up a good few points in the coming weeks, but i think it may well be the end of our serious playoff hopes. Hopefully Palace will have been the kick up the arse that the Forest game should have been and we can crack on from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RiZiVi Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 I think it's one of those gaems that is a must win but not at the same time :noexpression: Right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loderingo Posted November 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Whilst a win is always desirable, Watford is not a 'must win game'. City are three points off a play-off place. If City win, draw or lose then there is still another 27 games to go - thats 81 points still to play for. 'Must win' games are when there is a serious consequence riding on the result like relegation or play-off/ promotion. I take your point that whatever the result tonight we will still have plenty of time to get it right/mess it up (delete as applicable) but I still feel strongly that tonight will have a strong influence on confidence, form and morale and could be a major turning point in our season. While the last 2-3 games may end up being the must win games as you put it, tonight could have a big bearing on whether we say find ourselves 3 points clear of 7th with 2 games to go or 5 points behind 6th with 2 games to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 and why is he out of work oh and wasnt he sacked by west ham , sorry not 4 me , i ll stick with gary no question Irony not a strongpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Hardly 3 weeks; I said to a mate at the start of the season, to back us at 40s to get relegated, and I stand by that. We weren't a great team last season but we played well, this year we have been poor and very poor at that. I now go to games not actually feeling confident of beating any team we play. Yesterday was a team that was struggling whom at the end of the season managed to see off, the same players bar a couple played that team yesterday and were made to look dreadful, this keeps cropping up. The only teams we looked great against in my opinion were Donny and that aint saying alot, plus second half against Plymouth. We need a revamp, but by January alot of damage could be done, Johnson's attitude to my way or the highway is what has p'eed me off, all this year, I spoke to an out of flavour player last night whom I'm pally with and he even told me there is no morale in the dressing room, to quote a certain someone saying "I've done my part, why the f in hell are you not doing yours", Theres no I in team, !!!! Morale is shot at our club at present, players feel that, its time the kids were brought in and also we played the skillfull players, if McIndoe, Carey, Trundle and Noble leave in January like some expect, I think we would be right royally in the shiat. Karchina, for someone who has played the game at a professional level, works for the countrys biggest red top and is 'pally' with an out or flavour player, you don't half spout a load of bollox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Karchina, for someone who has played the game at a professional level, works for the countrys biggest red top and is 'pally' with an out or flavour player, you don't half spout a load of bollox garlic; personal insults arent allowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 garlic; personal insults arent allowed That wasn't a personal insult - it was the post that was called bollox, not the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 That wasn't a personal insult - it was the post that was called bollox, not the poster. yes, thought I made sure of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kachina Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Karchina, for someone who has played the game at a professional level, works for the countrys biggest red top and is 'pally' with an out or flavour player, you don't half spout a load of bollox Merry Christmas to you as well, Everyones entitled to an opinion aren't they ??? I was actually pleased with the selection last night, maybe Orr for Wilson and Trundle for McIndoe and that would be my ideal line up. I thought we were alot better last night, and partly I think it was for scrapping 4-5-1, there is still work to be done, as it was a close game which could have easily gone either way. It was a step in the right direction, but I still feel it was not the same City which looked better last season, Trundle was lively once on, also was it me or did he show a great turn of foot to make that tackle in front of the Ateyo, and people say he is slow ???? Garlicbread, thank you for your opinion, maybe you could have decided to concentrate on areas rather than personal insults, also its written as B-oll-ocks, so I clearly won't be losing my job to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Merry Christmas to you as well, Everyones entitled to an opinion aren't they ??? I was actually pleased with the selection last night, maybe Orr for Wilson and Trundle for McIndoe and that would be my ideal line up. I thought we were alot better last night, and partly I think it was for scrapping 4-5-1, there is still work to be done, as it was a close game which could have easily gone either way. It was a step in the right direction, but I still feel it was not the same City which looked better last season, Trundle was lively once on, also was it me or did he show a great turn of foot to make that tackle in front of the Ateyo, and people say he is slow ???? Garlicbread, thank you for your opinion, maybe you could have decided to concentrate on areas rather than personal insults, also its written as B-oll-ocks, so I clearly won't be losing my job to you Firstly Karchina, the aim was to insult the post and not the poster. It doesnt give your posts any extra creadence to say you know a player, you write for the redtops, you are an ex-pro or whatever, so I apologise...lets stick to the matter in hand... I was suggesting that your posts on this thread are a tad knee jerk, purely because were having a run of dissapointing games. I'm miffed that you suggest Johnson's employement should be questioned because of this run. Of course he is making mistakes, but this is new ground for him. With our setup, and judging by how the league is panning out, I can't see us going down. So then, why don't we stick with an already succesful manager in a bad run and give him time to learn from this - because he will learn and improve, to our benefit, and we will be stronger for it. Given his record, his reputation and his potential, I mirror the previous post to say that even if we went down, I'd keep him on. Whilst I appreciate the fact that expectations have gone up, we probably have something like the 12th strongest squad in this league..and we cant compete with the recently relegated clubs on wages and players. So forgetting all his passed glories and judging him on this season alone, he aint doing bad...yes could do better, but aint doing bad....that isn't sackable, surely? What I'd like to know is, if not Johnson isnt up to the job, who would you bring in that could do a better job??? (Oh and thanks for the help in the spelling. As a journalist, I would've thought you knew that the term is out of favour, not flavour). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 A hammering off Watford and defeat live on sky to Preston, and I certainly wouldn't be upset if he was sent his marching orders. This time last year some Cardiff fans were calling for Dave Jones to be sacked - a FA Cup final appearance later & a decent start to the season all is well. Almost incredibly when you look at the table now, for large parts of last season a significant % of Wolves fans wanted McCarthy sacked... they seem ok with him now though. Our fan base is no different to any other - a bad run & some want blood, despite all inidcators being that stability breeds success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kachina Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Firstly Karchina, the aim was to insult the post and not the poster. It doesn't give your posts any extra creadence to say you know a player, you write for the redtops, you are an ex-pro or whatever, so I apologise...lets stick to the matter in hand... I was suggesting that your posts on this thread are a tad knee jerk, purely because were having a run of disappointing games. I'm miffed that you suggest Johnson's employment should be questioned because of this run. Of course he is making mistakes, but this is new ground for him. With our setup, and judging by how the league is panning out, I can't see us going down. So then, why don't we stick with an already successful manager in a bad run and give him time to learn from this - because he will learn and improve, to our benefit, and we will be stronger for it. Given his record, his reputation and his potential, I mirror the previous post to say that even if we went down, I'd keep him on. Whilst I appreciate the fact that expectations have gone up, we probably have something like the 12th strongest squad in this league..and we cant compete with the recently relegated clubs on wages and players. So forgetting all his passed glories and judging him on this season alone, he ain't doing bad...yes could do better, but ain't doing bad....that isn't sackable, surely? What I'd like to know is, if not Johnson isn't up to the job, who would you bring in that could do a better job??? (Oh and thanks for the help in the spelling. As a journalist, I would've thought you knew that the term is out of favour, not flavour). It was a personal joke saying flavour, as if to say players with quality and attitude don't taste good in the mouth for Johnson, it was meant as a Witty remark. I ain't the chairman, have no desire to be and have no experience coaching or managing a club, so I wouldn't know who to bring in, but if we are in this league when Johnson departs I would like to think the club would invest in a manager who has been at the highest level, thats all. I accept and understand the position we're in and want success as much as the next man but I ain't one of two people who said at the start of the season, we have a team capable of automatic promotion and our aim is the top two. If you set high standards you drive expectation higher, the chairman and manager delivered those telling replies to questions, I think they got a bit carried away and when things aren't so bright they don't really have an action to say that they don't have the squad to meet their aims, which whilst I would love to be wrong about, don't think i am. My point was clearly if Johnson aimed for the top 2, and hasn't got the squad to meet his aim but continues to talk as if the lads are good enough for the top 2 and its only the non showing and missing quality and not turning up thats happening then surely he is either naive or can't see we need to invest in better quality. Many companies go bust thinking its bad luck and the tide will turn and so forth, the first step to success is realising that there is weak areas and problems, the 2nd is doing something about it, what this season has shown thus far is that we are not the same standard as our position of last season and that we need to strengthen now, or accept consolidation this season, if the manager wants to keep talking about playoffs and promotion and quality then he has to accept its his responsibility to do something about it. The best thing they could do now is say, next year is the aim, and forget the talk of playoffs, ease pressure and concentrate on building for the future, and then if we get the playoffs it can be deemed a bonus again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I accept and understand the position we're in and want success as much as the next man but I ain't one of two people who said at the start of the season, we have a team capable of automatic promotion and our aim is the top two. Let me get this right.... your a journalist for a tabloid, & you think that football chairman/managers always speak gospel truth & say exactly what they mean. They never, for instance, say what they think needs to be heard ?? Ok then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kachina Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I don't doubt that williams stand, but I report on games and club issues and horse racing, You don't get praised for saying what wants to be heard, theres a difference to yarn spinning or having high hopes, then saying it in a way where you're convincing yourself all season about what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Karchina, for someone who has played the game at a professional level, works for the countrys biggest red top and is 'pally' with an out or flavour player, you don't half spout a load of bollox Surely working for the country's biggest red-top would give plenty of experience in spouting b***ocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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