So What's The Deal With Our Wide Players Tucking In So Much?

[Xiled]

Madness To Let Brooker Go, Gary Johnson's Strikers Have Not Been Good Buys

We've been toothless up front most of the season including tonight's PNE game.

The one player who has consistently hit the net and provided assists throughout his appearances is now on his way out of the club - probably on a free or for a small fee.

I know he is injury prone and I'm sure we'll save money on his wages when he signs for Doncaster but can we replace him for the remainder of the season for the money we save? I doubt it.

Stern John has now come out with "I would like to stay at Bristol City for the rest of my playing days" - this is a bad sign. Clearly another player with his eye on retirement rather than football at a higher level / bigger club.

I rate Trundle but he is never going to be the striker we hoped he would be. I think Maynard has potential but we might not be the club that sees the best of him.

No disrespect to Gary Johnson but please can we let someone else sign the next striker?

And as for Marvin Elliott, the Millwall fans were spot on when they said his initial impact would not last. He isn't the box to box player that we saw for two thirds of last season. Is his heart still in it?

We need an impact player. A surprise signing who lifts the fans and actually enhances the squad rather than another "in out, in out, don't know whether to play him or drop him" signing like most of the recent additions have been.

I'm still fully behind Gary Johnson and Steve Lansdown. They're still the best pairing we've had at the club in the 30 odd years that I've been watching City.

[Bris Red]

We've been toothless up front most of the season including tonight's PNE game.

The one player who has consistently hit the net and provided assists throughout his appearances is now on his way out of the club - probably on a free or for a small fee.

I know he is injury prone and I'm sure we'll save money on his wages when he signs for Doncaster but can we replace him for the remainder of the season for the money we save? I doubt it.

Stern John has now come out with "I would like to stay at Bristol City for the rest of my playing days" - this is a bad sign. Clearly another player with his eye on retirement rather than football at a higher level / bigger club.

I rate Trundle but he is never going to be the striker we hoped he would be. I think Maynard has potential but we might not be the club that sees the best of him.

No disrespect to Gary Johnson but please can we let someone else sign the next striker?

And as for Marvin Elliott, the Millwall fans were spot on when they said his initial impact would not last. He isn't the box to box player that we saw for two thirds of last season. Is his heart still in it?

We need an impact player. A surprise signing who lifts the fans and actually enhances the squad rather than another "in out, in out, don't know whether to play him or drop him" signing like most of the recent additions have been.

I'm still fully behind Gary Johnson and Steve Lansdown. They're still the best pairing we've had at the club in the 30 odd years that I've been watching City.

The midfiled is the problem not the strikers.

If its been said once its been said a thousand times on this forum our service is poor and tonight i would even go as far as saying it was disgraceful. Maynard Trundle Bola and John will all put the ball in the back of the net given good service.

We were toothlees in midfield and our wingers were no exsitence, if you have any idea about football you will understand that goals don't just miraculasly appear you need service from your midfield its quite simple, I'm sure GJ knws this and will adress it come jan and the summer.

[Robins_til_i_die]

The midfiled is the problem not the strikers.

If its been said once its been said a thousand times on this forum our service is poor and tonight i would even go as far as saying it was disgraceful. Maynard Trundle Bola and John will all put the ball in the back of the net given good service.

We were toothlees in midfield and our wingers were no exsitence, if you have any idea about football you will understand that goals don't just miraculasly appear you need service from your midfield its quite simple, I'm sure GJ knws this and will adress it come jan and the summer.

Spot on, Maynard was never going to have a chance tonight, full backs chucking the ball up to him and trundle was NEVER going to work. I'd rather see Stern and Dele up front than watch Maynard and Trundle get outbattled. I feel very sorry for Maynard he is obviously a good finisher and can get into decent areas, but our service is shockingly bad due to our style of play.

[Frenchay Red]

The midfiled is the problem not the strikers.

If its been said once its been said a thousand times on this forum our service is poor and tonight i would even go as far as saying it was disgraceful. Maynard Trundle Bola and John will all put the ball in the back of the net given good service.

We were toothlees in midfield and our wingers were no exsitence, if you have any idea about football you will understand that goals don't just miraculasly appear you need service from your midfield its quite simple, I'm sure GJ knws this and will adress it come jan and the summer.

I agree 100% with what you are saying, but the OP has a point. WHEN FIT Brooker is the most likely of all the strikers we have to conjure up a goal "out of nothing", and it seems he is on the way out.

I presume the club have studied his injury history and considered a lighter training regime etc to keep him sharp but playing? Probably not that simple, but I just wondered!

[Ryan 7]

The midfiled is the problem not the strikers.

If its been said once its been said a thousand times on this forum our service is poor and tonight i would even go as far as saying it was disgraceful. Maynard Trundle Bola and John will all put the ball in the back of the net given good service.

We were toothlees in midfield and our wingers were no exsitence, if you have any idea about football you will understand that goals don't just miraculasly appear you need service from your midfield its quite simple, I'm sure GJ knws this and will adress it come jan and the summer.

Totally agree, GJ needs to make major changes in January.

[SUMMAT OUTTA NOWT]

Have to say that the strikers will score goals when they get the service. Elliot is a shadow of last season, Noble is played out of posistion, For every good ball Johnson plays he will follow this up by a negative ball or lose possesion. Williams has his moments but never looks fit. Sproule and McIndoe are never on the wing to recieve balls from the midfield and i have not seen any killer passes from the midfield this season. We seem to need 40 passes or an up and under from the defence.

[spectator]

I agree 100% with what you are saying, but the OP has a point. WHEN FIT Brooker is the most likely of all the strikers we have to conjure up a goal "out of nothing", and it seems he is on the way out.

I presume the club have studied his injury history and considered a lighter training regime etc to keep him sharp but playing? Probably not that simple, but I just wondered!

It's a shame because it was his knee that was the main problem, the second op sorted it, and maybe mis-diagnosis and incorrect treatment of the latest injury has put paid to our best striker.

Great story, loan debut for Donny, goes to his old Club and bangs one home !

He obviously can do it, and a motivated Brooker is an assett to any Championship Club, but do understand the hought process of GJ/SL.

[freezer]

Tonight - via Sky Sports - I witnessed a performance that warranted a defeat, and Preston North End obliged.

I unfortunately feel that the presently selected side and tactics are innefective.

I have concerns at present as to whether some players are good enough to propel this football club farther than a mid-table/survivable Championship side.

My concerns at present are with Basso, McCallister, Sproule, Skuse, Johnson (L), McKindoe, Maynard, Wilson (B). I feel that these players are not good enough to lead us forward, other players are not even played in the positions that they need to be in are are therefore not included.

As a Championship club we need better players if we are to push on. To not have a decent out and out right midfielder is beyond a joke and we are now getting found-out by clubs due to our lack of width and lightweight midfield. To blame Adebola for the lack of any other outlet is misguided.

Tonight we removed Adebola and later replaced him up-front with McCombe via a defensive re-shuffle!?

We looked poor today, couldn't create anything decent and ball retention was scarce.

Lee Johnson was slow and didn't tackle, and I counted at least 6 occasions when he did his speciality of lofting the ball up in the air to no-one in particular, and on each occasion it went to a Preston player, surrendering cheaply possession. Not good enough.

The manager selects the team and chooses the tactics.

Tonight we were slow and pedictable in our build-up play with a distinct lack of width or a midfield cutting edge.

I will continue to support my team verbally from the stands, in public and when the performance on the pitch requires it. Hey, just like last week, when we all gave great support when things weren't going too great against Watford, that's what it's all about, but in time the on-field commitment and skill has to match the fans fervour.

Sort it out Gazza. Please.

[redrebel]

Tonight - via Sky Sports - I witnessed a performance that warranted a defeat, and Preston North End obliged.

I unfortunately feel that the presently selected side and tactics are innefective.

I have concerns at present as to whether some players are good enough to propel this football club farther than a mid-table/survivable Championship side.

My concerns at present are with Basso, McCallister, Sproule, Skuse, Johnson (L), McKindoe, Maynard, Wilson (B). I feel that these players are not good enough to lead us forward, other players are not even played in the positions that they need to be in are are therefore not included.

As a Championship club we need better players if we are to push on. To not have a decent out and out right midfielder is beyond a joke and we are now getting found-out by clubs due to our lack of width and lightweight midfield. To blame Adebola for the lack of any other outlet is misguided.

Tonight we removed Adebola and later replaced him up-front with McCombe via a defensive re-shuffle!?

We looked poor today, couldn't create anything decent and ball retention was scarce.

Lee Johnson was slow and didn't tackle, and I counted at least 6 occasions when he did his speciality of lofting the ball up in the air to no-one in particular, and on each occasion it went to a Preston player, surrendering cheaply possession. Not good enough.

The manager selects the team and chooses the tactics.

Tonight we were slow and pedictable in our build-up play with a distinct lack of width or a midfield cutting edge.

I will continue to support my team verbally from the stands, in public and when the performance on the pitch requires it. Hey, just like last week, when we all gave great support when things weren't going too great against Watford, that's what it's all about, but in time the on-field commitment and skill has to match the fans fervour.

Sort it out Gazza. Please.

Well said, let's hope it happens.

[Tunley Legend]

Of tonights team:-

Basso - has proven himself at this level so no long term concerns but I will expect Weale to be pushing him soon

Wilson - has to do a lot more for me before I am convinced he is a right back - at fault for the first goal

McAllister - nailed on starting place and needs competition to eliminate slackness

McCombe - no more than a back-up centre half. Speed and turning circle of an oil tanker.

Carey - Lets hope James Wilson is a younger version of Carey.

Noble - played out of position to accommodate others

Elliott - a shadow of last seasons player

Johnson - nowhere near good enough in my opinion - at fault for the second goal

McIndoe - I'd love to see him playing on the WING and then judge him

Adebola - getting on and needs replacing

Maynard - how anyone can really criticise him when you take into account the appalling service he gets due to our defensive tactic of not having any width in our play is beyond me. Adebola should have buried the chance that Maynard gave him.

[tommy doc]

It is (for me at least) infuriating, and it can't be argued that it happens every game.

Our wide men rarely, if ever, cross from the byline. When we have possession in the centre, maybe 50% of the time they are in position awaiting a pass, the rest of the time, they are either the man with the ball, or have drifted inside.

So, why? It may be the inclination of Noble and Williams to gravitate towards the middle (although when they do you'd expect GJ to demand that they stay wide), but what about McIndoe and Sproule? Admittedly Sproule is an atrocious and moronic footballer, but McIndoe is antonymic of that.

We can only conclude that they tuck in on GJ's orders. Why would he want this, it limits our attacking options so much? One hypothesis might be that he wants them to congest the middle of the field and cover the defensive deficiancies of Lee Johnson, after all, his attacking defieciancies are plain for all to see. But maybe i'm wrong, why do you think it happens so much?

[miketh2nd]

It is (for me at least) infuriating, and it can't be argued that it happens every game.

Our wide men rarely, if ever, cross from the byline. When we have possession in the centre, maybe 50% of the time they are in position awaiting a pass, the rest of the time, they are either the man with the ball, or have drifted inside.

So, why? It may be the inclination of Noble and Williams to gravitate towards the middle (although when they do you'd expect GJ to demand that they stay wide), but what about McIndoe and Sproule? Admittedly Sproule is an atrocious and moronic footballer, but McIndoe is antonymic of that.

We can only conclude that they tuck in on GJ's orders. Why would he want this, it limits our attacking options so much? One hypothesis might be that he wants them to congest the middle of the field and cover the defensive deficiancies of Lee Johnson, after all, his attacking defieciancies are plain for all to see. But maybe i'm wrong, why do you think it happens so much?

GJ said earlier in this season that this season sometimes the wingers have to tuck in as the championship is such a good standard you can't afford to be vunerable if the winger looses it. Or something along those lines.

[bcfcmike]

Imo our probs lie in midfield but were not aloud to say that?? Listen even all you LJ lovers surly are now starting to see what everyone else is seeing??? If he loses the ball he wont chase it down, if he is 5 yards away from an attacking opponent he wont make an effort to challenge.......he is bloody awful and does not deserve that shirt...sorry buts that my opinion and entitiled to that......GJ get your bloody son out of there and put noble where he should be playing not on the wing??? he has never been known for his pace, but put him in where wee man plays and you will see a different DN i'm sure!!!

That way gary our attacks might come from midfield instead of defence??

[Guest Eamer]

I believe I mentioned this at the start of the season and everyone brushed it off and said it was alright and whatever else. Maybe people are starting to see what I mean with all my comments now? I say them all early on and no-one agrees, give it time and people start to understand what I mean. Wingers moving in, Wilson being terrible, Brooker being a waste of a wage packet...

[wookey]

Imo our probs lie in midfield but were not aloud to say that?? Listen even all you LJ lovers surly are now starting to see what everyone else is seeing??? If he loses the ball he wont chase it down, if he is 5 yards away from an attacking opponent he wont make an effort to challenge.......he is bloody awful and does not deserve that shirt...sorry buts that my opinion and entitiled to that......GJ get your bloody son out of there and put noble where he should be playing not on the wing??? he has never been known for his pace, but put him in where wee man plays and you will see a different DN i'm sure!!!

That way gary our attacks might come from midfield instead of defence??

Having critisised Lee J since the start of the season and seen another poor performance tonight where Nobel was taken off but Lee J left on I have given up.

It is clear that probably because players are partly paid on appearances Lee J is going to be kept in the team come what may.

Carle had the audacity to keep him out of the team at the end of last season and was sold as a consequence.

As I said in another thread someone, and I suggested Steve Landsdown, has to tell Gary to stop being so silly and drop or sell Lee J so we can improve the midfield.

As a matter of conjecture is Orr going because of the Lee J saga?

[Xiled]

The midfiled is the problem not the strikers.

If its been said once its been said a thousand times on this forum our service is poor and tonight i would even go as far as saying it was disgraceful. Maynard Trundle Bola and John will all put the ball in the back of the net given good service.

We were toothlees in midfield and our wingers were no exsitence, if you have any idea about football you will understand that goals don't just miraculasly appear you need service from your midfield its quite simple, I'm sure GJ knws this and will adress it come jan and the summer.

Its too simplistic to blame supply as the only problem. You could equally argue that defence is the only problem because they are letting goals in. Good supply comes from a confident team not just midfielders.

Other CC clubs make do with midfielders that I've never heard of. Players without reputations. There are a few that stand out but the majority of clubs are getting their goals without world class midfielders.

Lita seems to be finding the net often enough in an appalling Norwich side assembled from mostly loan players. I'm not a Lita fan and I really don't want him back at Ashton Gate but he is doing his job at present.

I don't think our midfielders are worse or better than the other mid-table sides. I've already knocked Elliott in this thread but only because he isn't the player he was for much of last season. Lee Johnson is a more than capable player at this level.

My original point was that we've let Brooker go without (what I see as) a significant cash saving. The guy makes space, runs off the ball, scores with his back to goal, brings other players into attack and takes players on. Adebole, Trundle, Maynard aren't doing any of these things. I haven't seen enough of Stern John to make my mind up about his potential.

Until Tuesday night, Brooker was our joint top scorer.

There were obviously good reasons to let him leave for Doncaster but from an outsider's perspective I remain baffled as to why we couldn't have let him see out his contract with us.

[fRed]

Brooker not fit enough to go on loan?

Must have been a lucky rebound off his zimmer today.

[cider head]

It is because the central midfield is not functioning as an outlet so the wingers are coming inside looking for the ball

and the same goes for our strikers not looking like world beaters as they are starved of service and it can be glossed over

as much as anyone likes but the fact is we need a all round central midfielder who can put his foot on the ball and pass a ball through an eye of an needle, spread it around the pitch into dangerous areas and set wingers and strikers off in to runs they crave and not sideways-backwards tosh which puts the opposition back behind the ball, our midfield central area was non existent and preston just walked through the middle of us today and to be fair i thought preston were poor and their sub that came on upfront, jon parkin had more spare tyres around his waste than michelin man and he got in some good positions and could have scored 2 goals, on another day taken chances on both sides city would have lost that 6-2.

sort the midfield out please....

[cider head]

The midfiled is the problem not the strikers.

If its been said once its been said a thousand times on this forum our service is poor and tonight i would even go as far as saying it was disgraceful. Maynard Trundle Bola and John will all put the ball in the back of the net given good service.

We were toothlees in midfield and our wingers were no exsitence, if you have any idea about football you will understand that goals don't just miraculasly appear you need service from your midfield its quite simple, I'm sure GJ knws this and will adress it come jan and the summer.

yep spot on and the midfield covers your back four but we were over ran by preston 2nd half and it's why we are seeing

hoof ball because our defence is by passing the midfield to get the strikers some sort of service,

we are all sounding like stuck records trying to get the message accross and were told we are

all wrong, Peter Beagrie watched us tonight (seen us what 3 times on sky) and he is saying what we are saying every

weekend, no midfield, strikers lack service, wingers playing narrow looking for the ball which is causing congestion!!

is Peter Beagrie wrong to???

[Centenary Gas]

If they are moving inside it is likely to be on orders from GJ. PT does the same with Lines when he plays on the right for us. Maybe he spots a weakness in the opposition through the middle or feels you will create more that way.

[cider head]

If they are moving inside it is likely to be on orders from GJ. PT does the same with Lines when he plays on the right for us. Maybe he spots a weakness in the opposition through the middle or feels you will create more that way.

or weakness in your own team that needs covering

[Guest]

Its too simplistic to blame supply as the only problem. You could equally argue that defence is the only problem because they are letting goals in. Good supply comes from a confident team not just midfielders.

Other CC clubs make do with midfielders that I've never heard of. Players without reputations. There are a few that stand out but the majority of clubs are getting their goals without world class midfielders.

Lita seems to be finding the net often enough in an appalling Norwich side assembled from mostly loan players. I'm not a Lita fan and I really don't want him back at Ashton Gate but he is doing his job at present.

I don't think our midfielders are worse or better than the other mid-table sides. I've already knocked Elliott in this thread but only because he isn't the player he was for much of last season. Lee Johnson is a more than capable player at this level.

My original point was that we've let Brooker go without (what I see as) a significant cash saving. The guy makes space, runs off the ball, scores with his back to goal, brings other players into attack and takes players on. Adebole, Trundle, Maynard aren't doing any of these things. I haven't seen enough of Stern John to make my mind up about his potential.

Until Tuesday night, Brooker was our joint top scorer.

There were obviously good reasons to let him leave for Doncaster but from an outsider's perspective I remain baffled as to why we couldn't have let him see out his contract with us.

Correct, hes already got a goal and a point for who could be a relegation rival; make no mistake we are falling apart and its below we should be looking at now :noexpression:

[pdgifford64]

Its too simplistic to blame supply as the only problem. You could equally argue that defence is the only problem because they are letting goals in. Good supply comes from a confident team not just midfielders.

Other CC clubs make do with midfielders that I've never heard of. Players without reputations. There are a few that stand out but the majority of clubs are getting their goals without world class midfielders.

Lita seems to be finding the net often enough in an appalling Norwich side assembled from mostly loan players. I'm not a Lita fan and I really don't want him back at Ashton Gate but he is doing his job at present.

I don't think our midfielders are worse or better than the other mid-table sides. I've already knocked Elliott in this thread but only because he isn't the player he was for much of last season. Lee Johnson is a more than capable player at this level.

My original point was that we've let Brooker go without (what I see as) a significant cash saving. The guy makes space, runs off the ball, scores with his back to goal, brings other players into attack and takes players on. Adebole, Trundle, Maynard aren't doing any of these things. I haven't seen enough of Stern John to make my mind up about his potential.

Until Tuesday night, Brooker was our joint top scorer.

There were obviously good reasons to let him leave for Doncaster but from an outsider's perspective I remain baffled as to why we couldn't have let him see out his contract with us.

It`s not as simple as that either. The players we have are capable of ripping teams to shreds, Charlton was a fine example, but when we do play that expansive football we look extremely likely to concede goals. It`s no secret that GJ prefers to send the team out intent on not conceding goals, unfortunately that`s not working either.

This is now where GJ needs to earn his money. I posted a while back that at some point he will have to step out of his comfort zone as far as the coaching of the team and his preference for signings that won`t `rock the boat`.

As far as i`m concerned any thoughts of the play-offs can be shelved. We might not be that far off as regards the points gap and points available, but we are way off the pace on the pitch compared to teams above us and to a certain extent teams around us. I`ve no doubt that we could carry on as we are without worrying about getting sucked into a relegation battle.

I`m sure some will point out that we`ve matched teams above us on the pitch, well not when it comes to scoring goals we havn`t.

I`d rather, however, see GJ preparing for next season now. Get the team playing the football we know they can play more often. Get rid of this passing the ball to death mindset and start instilling some attacking intent. Get some wide players in who are not just capable but have the confidence to drive down the wings, take players on and that can put in a decent cross. Sick to death of seeing McIndoe sprint to the halfway line, stop and pass backwards, or Wilson get into a decent crossing position and put in dreadful balls.

We do need some fresh blood in midfield and i do believe the forwards we have are good enough, but for me, GJ needs to start introducing a more direct approach to our attacking play and that doesn`t mean hoof-ball.

PDG

[bs3]

To cover up the weakness of his son.

[Guest churchill gaffer]

It's strange, once GJ gets a new 5 year contract the side goes down hill.

Maynards been a complete flop! IMO, IMO Even the commentator commented on him!

Adebola trys more than he does

Carey was at fault for both goals. All he had to do was make contact with the ball and the danger was gone. The second, Ok it was a deflection, but it still came off him.

Also for the first goal, Wilson was cought out of position!

The only players who looked like they wanted to play for City were McCindoe and Adebola!,

If thinks don't change WE WILL BE IN A RELEGATION BATTLE!

Lets hope we can have a good Cup run, to make something of this season! IMO, IMO

[bs3]

Lee Johnson was to blame for the 2nd goal , the PNE walked ran past him and shot like he wasn't there. Also for the 2nd LJ let his man go past him and he didn't pick him up again and th ball got played out to the wing.

[bs3]

At the momment I just can't see us winning a game. Lack of midfield, worst strikers in the Championship and a manager who seems to have lost the plot.

We are going to be in a relagation battle very soon.

[Longacre_red]

At the momment I just can't see us winning a game. Lack of midfield, worst strikers in the Championship and a manager who seems to have lost the plot.

We are going to be in a relagation battle very soon.

We havent got the worst strikers..

Possibly the worst midfielders, Johnson not creating enough, Noble largley innefective (Esp on the right), Elliot not even half the player he was last year, Mcindoe same as elliot, Sproule useless...

[red23]

Lee Johnson was to blame for the 2nd goal , the PNE walked ran past him and shot like he wasn't there. Also for the 2nd LJ let his man go past him and he didn't pick him up again and th ball got played out to the wing.

And for the fog...and Dele not scoring that chance.

[fka dagest]

I think our strikers are fine and the way Maynard took his last two goals shows that if he's given the service he will put them away.

I've always believed a mean defence is the bedrock of a successful team. At the moment we seem to give a gift of a goal away every game.