What Does Stern John Offer?

[Jordan Tansley]

I totally agree Jevo was absolutely awful. And remember some of the practice shooting before games (in the Dolman/Atyeo corner) where Sproule, Jevons, and Enoch all showed themselves to have the accuracy of a 2yr old!!

But, like Stern, Jevons was also living on past glories and that just isn't enough at City. Some clubs will take Marcus Stewart, or Michael Bridges, (or Stern John), and accept that "players with a pedigree must be worth having in the team". But if you don't back it up with performances then the AG faithful will always be happy to see the back of you.

And AJ is quality!!! :tongue:

that's the beauty of football though isn't it? differing opinions. granted his performances are not that of a £10k+ a week player, but if you look at what he has brought to the TEAM and his TEAMMATES it doesnt look so bad. Emile Heskey for example... since 2001 at L'pool, has barely scored... he has changed his game, but is a vital part of England, Aston Villa and previously Wigan's side because he can Bring other's into play, I'm not saying SJ is anywhere near as effective as EH but i think the work that sort of striker puts in goes unnoticed, you have to admit, the ball has been on the floor a bit more since his arrival

AJ IS GASH!

[Jordan Tansley]

Had Lee Miller not hit the post with an empty net gaping at the County Ground a few seasons back, Danny Wilson would have seen us promoted to the Championship.

Fine line between success and failure.

Had Leroy been picked instead of a terrible Lee Miller in the final we may have been promoted and Danny Wilson could have continued to live off of past glories with Barnsley and Sheff W...

i don't blame Jevo, but that miss summed him up for us

s**t.

good at pens though... like AJ!

[rossjonesuk]

In a word, no.

Adebola is nowhere near the target man that John is, just as John is nowhere near the industrious, hard worker that Adebola is. Adebola tends to flick the ball on via his head which is a useful tactic in certain scenarios but one that has proved pretty ineffective on the whole. John receives the ball to feet and brings others around him into the game. Also seen Dele receive it to feet on many occasions. Maynards goal against Wolves for example

Styvar, again, is an entirely different player. Yes he looks to run at players, something that John does not, but you cannot use Styvar's style to criticise John or anyone else - theyr're chalk and cheese. Agree. But what I am saying is that Styvar can offer just as much to the team as Stern can

Without researching this I believe I'm right in saying that John has played over 100 games for his country at about a .70 strike rate - I entirely stand to be corrected if that isnt true. I'm not sure that record backs up your assertion that he is a 'league one footballer at best.' Oh but it does. Look at Trinidads International Cup. The teams are; Guadeloupe, Barbados, Haiti, Cuba, Bermuda, Guyana, and St.Vincent. I know for a fact that Guadeloupe have an ex-Weston player (not even Conference standard!!) at Centre-Back (Ludovic Quistin). If thats the quality of teams he's getting his impressive goal-ratio against is it really cause to be impressed??

Comparing him to Jevons, who I have nothing what-so-ever against, is sheer madness.

One minute our fans are crying out for passing, more aesthetically pleasing football, and yet when we get a player who encourages this he is ruthlessly cast aside.

[Donkeeebles]

Donkeebles;

Yes Maynard did receive the ball with his back to goal against Palace . . . . on the edge of the 'd', not attempting to 'link up' play and he received the ball from a neat flick by none other that Stern John.

If John looked to operate in a more similar way to Maynard, in that he was more energetic and made incisive runs, then our back four and midifield would simply toss the ball either through or, more often, over the opposing back four. When comparing this tactic to getting the ball to John's feet who in turn brings others around him into the game it is surely justifiable to deem it as 'long ball'?

I agree that he usually has a defender close by but for me, given that his role in the side is to hold up the ball and link the play, he makes himself enough room or is intelligent enough to capitalise on the space made by others to fulfuil his role in the side. He clearly doesnt hare around the pitch dragging defenders every which way, however he is intelligent enough to take up positions which enable him to do his job - thus {in my opinion} he does make space for himself.

SJC!

Yes stern did do a neat flick, one which i was happy to praise him for, but the hard work was still to be done. Done it was by Maynard who had his back to goal on the edge of the D....a position which john does take up but never produces anywhere near the same result. incidently just because a player is on the edge of the D does that mean he isnt and cant link up play from that position??? Maynard does receive the ball with his back to goal both in the box and near the halfway line.....maybe you just don't see it the same way i don't see whatever it is John is supposed to be doing!

Why you think that as soon as a player starts to make incisive runs the team is automatically going to result to a long ball game is beyond me. The best strikers in the world have always been hard working....making runs....creating space for them selves and others....and they play for the best most attractive sides in the world. The long ball or ball over the top is mearly another option for those teams......it doesnt have to be the only option.Ian Rush was one of the hardest working players i have ever seen making incisive runs all the times and The liverpool team he played in were hardly long ball!!! John can recieve the ball at his feet plenty of times....thats fine......but he has to try to do something different or he will just become predictable for the center half he is playing against.

i am not saying John has to operate the same way as Maynard all the time.....i am saying that because in my opinion he doesnt hold the ball up, link the play and isnt intelligent enough to capatalise on the space that is made by others then maybe if he did try making runs as Maynard was doing when he wasnt playing so well then maybe...just maybe the fans wouldnt give him such a hard time and call him lazy.

You can put my name up at the start of every thread if you like but that isnt going to make me agree with you......the only person who will make me change my opinion is Stern John and if he does that then great....that means he has played well and we will benefit from that. At the moment......it is my humble and unworthy of this site opinion that he is on current form a complete waste of money and we would be far far better off without him!!!!!

Sorry if that upsets you!!!!

[SJC]

Donkeebles;

I only put your name at the top of the post so you knew I was talking to you!

There was no other intention so apologies if its, which it seems to have, been taken out of context.

Clearly we don't agree on John. In my opinion he is a valuable member of the squad who contributes much, in yours he isnt and doesnt - thats fine.

If John gets a run in the team he will, at some point this season, hit some form and i think then people will start to appreciate his overall contribution to the team.

[Alex_BCFC]

I'll join the Stern John fan club too. Please don't beat me up!

I think had he of scored his one-on-one (which he made himself with a great bit of control from an average ball) then most would be singing a different tune.

Whilst I didn't think he was much use yesterday, I think he is a handy player to have. At Plymouth he came on and played a defence splitting ball that put in Mcindoe and should of been finished by Skuse.

His control is superb and I can see that he thinks alot about the game- perhaps too quickly for our standard of players. We can all see he isn't athletic and he is lazy, and City fans don't like that kind of player. They like Bradley Orr's who have little quality but put in lots of effort.

I find it hilarious that he is compared to players like Bas Savage and Andy Smith. He may not put in a 10th of the effort they gave, but the quality is light years apart. Hence why Stern John has had a good career and they haven't.

Of course when John got cheered off it was OK, but when LJ did there was uproar for weeks...

[Maesknoll Red]

I'll join the Stern John fan club too. Please don't beat me up!

I certainly won't, my original post was to try and stir some debate, but was also (and still is) a genuine attempt to understand what it is that GJ sees in John.He appears to be sloth like in his movement, less than visionary in his use of the ball, but I'm not comparing him to others as I really don't think we have a similar player to compare him to. Adebola is our one and only target man, although I hope Akinde will develop into this role, Akinde also has pace, so may ultimately offer more than Dele. Maynard is coming good and I also see evidence that Styvar has much to offer, he must be given a few games to acclimatise....

The one on one miss John had yesterday wasn't a big part in ressurecting this thread, all strikers miss opportunities, it's his overall contribution ( or my perceived lack of it ), we looked far more likely to score after his substituton, the injection of movement and pace finally opening up Barnsley's defence.

[windmillhillred]

John was terrible yesterday and I don't think he really offers anything to the side. He seems very lazy, doesn't seem to care and I completely agree with those who say that his is simply just waiting for payday!

Can't wait to see the back of him and the eager types of Trundle, Plummer and Akinde working hard up front for us.

Considering Plummer can't get a game for Torquay, we'll have to differ in wanting him in the side ahead of someone who scored 20 goals in the championship last season.

What irritates me about the criticism of John is not those who don't see what he adds, but those who suggest he's only here for the money. Of course, in a sense he is, most footballers are. But many are suggesting he's not at all bothered about the team. The comments of his team-mates, and some of his actions off the field, would suggest this is simply not true.

Still, for some, it's another scape-goat.

[windmillhillred]

Of course when John got cheered off it was OK, but when LJ did there was uproar for weeks...

different situation. Johnson was effectively jeered off the pitch by about a third of the crowd - much less than that were having a pop at John, or McIndoe a few weeks before. They are all utterly moronic though.

[westred1]

What does Stern John Offer?

Stern John offers very little. His touch is good (sometimes) and that's about it.

He's a very lazy player and loves people to do everything for him and would rather a ball to feet rather than chasing one.

Berbatov is another lazy player but his touch, awareness, skill and goalscoring ability allows him to offer a lot more and John just doesn't have these qualities.

[Maesknoll Red]

Considering Plummer can't get a game for Torquay, we'll have to differ in wanting him in the side ahead of someone who scored 20 goals in the championship last season.

What irritates me about the criticism of John is not those who don't see what he adds, but those who suggest he's only here for the money. Of course, in a sense he is, most footballers are. But many are suggesting he's not at all bothered about the team. The comments of his team-mates, and some of his actions off the field, would suggest this is simply not true.

Still, for some, it's another scape-goat.

I haven't suggested he's a scapegoat, nor have I mentioned money, but I certainly struggle to see that he has improved what we already have - does he affect games? Feel free to answer my questions and build a case for him, I'm willing to listen and have my opinion changed if you can make a case for him, thats what forums and debate should be about.

[4eveREDDy]

I haven't suggested he's a scapegoat, nor have I mentioned money, but I certainly struggle to see that he has improved what we already have - does he affect games? Feel free to answer my questions and build a case for him, I'm willing to listen and have my opinion changed if you can make a case for him, thats what forums and debate should be about.

I have already offered my services for free, now we need a printer, one way to southampton label please

[windmillhillred]

I have already offered my services for free, now we need a printer, one way to southampton label please

just out of interest, who would you replace him with? if at all

[windmillhillred]

I haven't suggested he's a scapegoat, nor have I mentioned money, but I certainly struggle to see that he has improved what we already have - does he affect games? Feel free to answer my questions and build a case for him, I'm willing to listen and have my opinion changed if you can make a case for him, thats what forums and debate should be about.

I know, and it wasn't a criticism of you.

To be honest, I'm fairly ambivalent about him. Considering the money he's allegedly on, I would have liked more goals and assists. But there's no doubting that he's a class act - perfect example being his touch yesterday. Is that enough - obviously not. Is he contributing everythingn we would want - probably not. But he's certainly not been so poor as to be subject to some of the ridiculous abuse he has been, particularly given many of those who want rid would replace him with someone who's never succeded at this level, which John demonstrably has.

It also might be worth noting that the way some of our 'fans' behave towards him is hardly going to help.

[4eveREDDy]

just out of interest, who would you replace him with? if at all

Thats illrelevant, the question is,What Does Stern John Offer?, imho, nothing, ship him back

[windmillhillred]

Thats illrelevant, the question is,What Does Stern John Offer?, imho, nothing, ship him back

Of course it's not. Do you think he's the poorest striker at the club,therefore doesn't need replacing?

[Andy082005]

just out of interest, who would you replace him with? if at all

Well forgive me if I'm wrong, but have we not just forked out £750,000 on Styvar? surely this boy id the future, not Stern John?

Now, if Styvar isnt deemed good enough to be starting, then why have we spent £750k on a player....just to warm the bench, when that money could have gone to improving over areas.

Anyone that boo's John, is a disgrace. End of story. I'm not a lover of the lad as don't think he brings enough to the team, and he certainly is no beter then what we already have. Stern John WAS a good player....key word here, WAS....

For me, a few flick ons here, a tidy touch and pass there....is not good enough. Will Stern John be here next season?? of course he wont, do you honestly think Gary is going to sign him on? not a chance. Its time to blood Styvar now, give him half a season and get him ready for next season, where hopefully he will be more settled and accustomed to our game.

Stern John is not our future, and to be honest....should not be our present

[Donkeeebles]

I'll join the Stern John fan club too. Please don't beat me up!

I think had he of scored his one-on-one (which he made himself with a great bit of control from an average ball) then most would be singing a different tune.

Whilst I didn't think he was much use yesterday, I think he is a handy player to have. At Plymouth he came on and played a defence splitting ball that put in Mcindoe and should of been finished by Skuse.

His control is superb and I can see that he thinks alot about the game- perhaps too quickly for our standard of players. We can all see he isn't athletic and he is lazy, and City fans don't like that kind of player. They like Bradley Orr's who have little quality but put in lots of effort.

I find it hilarious that he is compared to players like Bas Savage and Andy Smith. He may not put in a 10th of the effort they gave, but the quality is light years apart. Hence why Stern John has had a good career and they haven't.

Of course when John got cheered off it was OK, but when LJ did there was uproar for weeks...

Just for the record a thread was started about this yesterday which had very little response.....you can go and look ....its called Fans again by Bairds middle finger......A few of us have commented that we don't agree with the cheers when substituted.

[Donkeeebles]

The only reason i have made comparisons with other players is to try and make the point that if John tried other things that certain players do such as making runs like maynard now and again he may not get at much stick as he has been. I understand John is in general not that sort of player but if the things that he does normally are not coming off which IMO they currently are not then it would be a good idea to try something a little different.......work a bit harder.......if this is just a poor run of form and it is only a matter of time before he comes good like some have said then working hard for the team and making space for himself is the best way of not only keeping the crowd on his side but of getting some confidence back. For me Maynard was a classic example of how a player who wasnt at the top of his game was prepared to work his nuts off for the team and try to give himself time on the ball to regain confidence. It was that attitude that eventually gave him the opportunity to start playing well again........the presence of stern john was i believe purely coincidental

[Guest RiZiVi]

Why shouldn't we boo? They don't do a satisfactory bit of work, and we pay alot of money to watch him standing around.

[Nibor]

Stern John has good vision, a decent touch and can weight a pass nicely. He can also strike a ball well and apparently the less experienced players are finding his experience to be a real help.

He doesn't offer enough goal threat and isn't very mobile. I don't think he's giving us any more than Trundle does, he's slightly better with his back to goal but he can't beat a man and doesn't run at defenders.

We've got him now until the end of the season so we might as well make use of him where appropriate but I would be amazed if he stayed longer.

[Andy082005]

The only reason i have made comparisons with other players is to try and make the point that if John tried other things that certain players do such as making runs like maynard now and again he may not get at much stick as he has been. I understand John is in general not that sort of player but if the things that he does normally are not coming off which IMO they currently are not then it would be a good idea to try something a little different.......work a bit harder.......if this is just a poor run of form and it is only a matter of time before he comes good like some have said then working hard for the team and making space for himself is the best way of not only keeping the crowd on his side but of getting some confidence back. For me Maynard was a classic example of how a player who wasnt at the top of his game was prepared to work his nuts off for the team and try to give himself time on the ball to regain confidence. It was that attitude that eventually gave him the opportunity to start playing well again........the presence of stern john was i believe purely coincidental

Yep! Agree with this. Like most 22 year old strikers, he needed confidence. Goals breed confidence. At times first half of the season he looked low on confidence, and at times appeared to shrink during games, he looked as if he didnt believe he deserved to be out there!

A few goals, and its all changed. He looks stronger, brimming with confidence, and is showing us what he can do

This isnt down to Stern, its down to the lad working his socks off

[Donkeeebles]

Why shouldn't we boo? They don't do a satisfactory bit of work, and we pay alot of money to watch him standing around.

Hey Boo away...........like you say you pay your money so your entitled to do it......I just choose not to because i don't believe it does any of the team including the players who arent getting booed any good whatsoever!!!!

[garlicbread]

It would be interesting to know who out of the pro Stern camp on this thread were at the game.

Ive defended him before, but even I must admit he was absolutely woeful on saturday

[Alex_BCFC]

It would be interesting to know who out of the pro Stern camp on this thread were at the game.

Ive defended him before, but even I must admit he was absolutely woeful on saturday

I was there Saturday and as I said, had he scored from his decent bit of skill, things would be very different now IMO. After watching the highlights, he was also quite unlucky with a header that was difficult too from a fizzed shot. He did give the ball away in a bad position too.

I didn't think he had a very good game but then again who did until 60 minutes? Probably only the central defenders.

As I said before, it seems to me that most City fans go for low on quality, high on effort rather than the reverse. Not the worst thing but it certainly won't endear Stern to the fans.

[Donkeeebles]

I was there Saturday and as I said, had he scored from his decent bit of skill, things would be very different now IMO. After watching the highlights, he was also quite unlucky with a header that was difficult too from a fizzed shot. He did give the ball away in a bad position too.

I didn't think he had a very good game but then again who did until 60 minutes? Probably only the central defenders.

As I said before, it seems to me that most City fans go for low on quality, high on effort rather than the reverse. Not the worst thing but it certainly won't endear Stern to the fans.

I believe i always go on quality rather than effort although it is always nice to see effort put in.......thats why i like Trundle and Noble....because i believe they have that extra bit of quality that is hard to find....the ability to do something different.........However at the moment i don't think John has shown anywhere near the ammount of quality needed to warrant his place.......and yes i do watch him closely........i cant help but watch him closely at the moment because he has been the subject of so much talk......the same as Lj......at times i think i tend to focus on them too much and actually miss other things in the game......and in my opinion until he starts to do what he is in there to do he should be putting in a bit more effort.

Take the Reading game for example......it was a bad day for us.......we were poor all over the pitch.......except for John who i believe was our best player that day by a mile......he looked sharp and dangerous.......his touch was good......he scored and was so unlucky not to get a couple more......only the great keeping of Hannaman denied him that......and the following week i was gutted he couldnt play against Southhampton........he proved to me that day that he can do it.....which is all the more reason why i get so annoyed that Imo he hasnt done it since.......i don't think he has performed anywhere near the level he reached during that Reading game.......and despite what some people have said about him not caring i still walk away from every game with the impression that he doesnt.......and he is the only one who is going to convince me otherwise!!!!

[Alex_BCFC]

Take the Reading game for example......it was a bad day for us.......we were poor all over the pitch.......except for John who i believe was our best player that day by a mile......he looked sharp and dangerous.......his touch was good......he scored and was so unlucky not to get a couple more......only the great keeping of Hannaman denied him that......and the following week i was gutted he couldnt play against Southhampton........he proved to me that day that he can do it.....which is all the more reason why i get so annoyed that Imo he hasnt done it since.......i don't think he has performed anywhere near the level he reached during that Reading game.......and despite what some people have said about him not caring i still walk away from every game with the impression that he doesnt.......and he is the only one who is going to convince me otherwise!!!!

I know what you're saying re the Reading game and from that perspective it is disapointing but then again no player plays well every game. I don't think he put in more effort in that game though- just had a better game. For example he wasn't chasing down the keeper etc. He was just on his game in terms of shooting.

I think he cares, he just isn't as overtly passionate and doesn't put in as much effort as Bradley Orr, due to his personality and style of play. He is never going to change. Also if he didn't care at all, I don't think GJ would risk him.

I would like to see Stern given another chance, especially when we are playing well to see if he comes up with the goods. No one played very in an attacking sense when Stern was on the pitch so to single him out is harsh- especially as he virtually created our best chance anyway during that time.

[SJC]

I was at the game yesterday.

I felt he did little but the little he did he did well - that was a mouthful.

As ive said, personally I felt Adebola did nothing yesterday and id much rather see John start with Dele used, as he has proved he can be to great affect, as an impact sub.

[PhatWill]

I think he cares, he just isn't as overtly passionate and doesn't put in as much effort as Bradley Orr, due to his personality and style of play. He is never going to change. Also if he didn't care at all, I don't think GJ would risk him.

I agree but the real reason John looks 'lazy' is cus he's from Trinidad and so he's used to lounging around drinking rum & coke and smoking reefer.

[Alex_BCFC]

I agree but the real reason John looks 'lazy' is cus he's from Trinidad and so he's used to lounging around drinking rum & coke and smoking reefer.

Not that we are into stereotyping players...